Follow up to rusty m&p 40

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've shot and handled the M&P 40, and M&P 9mm, both full size models.

I was not impressed with either. The triggers were gritty, and the accuracy was no better than any 3rd generation S&W pistol I've owned or shot. The breakdown involves tripping a yellow paperclip looking sear release.

I decided to find a nice S&W model 915 instead. Great trigger, and a real tackdriver, for half of what the M&P costs locally. I guess I'm one of those who dosen't think the M&P is all that. YMMV. TJ
 
I will be calling smith again tomorrow night. I work late tonight.

A couple of answers to replies,

1. Yes the rust is not bad now, and I could live with it. But since I just sent it in for a rust problem I feel it should have came back 100% rust free.

2. The roll pins, I know these are easy and cheap to replace. But with that said, it was just at smith, don’t you think they should have just replaced them. It would have taken almost nothing for them to do it.

3. And you have to remember I only had this gun a week. If it was a couple of years old I would be less forgiving. But when you spend $500 on a pistol and this is what I am dealing with three weeks later. I think this is a little outrageous, and of course I am going to be picky and expect more.

I will keep everyone updated. I will also scan the paper they sent back with the gun.
 
CountGlockula,

I am considering the 23, or sig 226, or cz 75. If smith doesn't do anything about this. But I am so afraid this thing will rust now, I don't know if i can keep it.
 
A Refund !?!

GOOD LUCK!

I have never, ever heard of a manufacturer giving a refund on a product that was bought from a retail outlet, which I assume yours was. (It's been a while since I read your first post on this.)

Smith and Wesson didn't sell your beleaguered M&P to you. They sold it to a distributor, who then sold it to the FFL holder (probably your local gunshop) who in turn sold it to you. And all the gun stores around here have prominent ALL SALES FINAL signs posted next to the cash register.

What S&W will do is take the thing back again and again until they figure out to simply oil the roll pins and rear sight. You'll likely sell it before too much longer. And if it was any caliber other than a .40, I'd buy it off you myself and spend two minutes with an old toothbrush and a dab of Flitz making it perfect.

Jamesr, I understand your disappointment in having plunked down large green for a pistol that immediately rusted. But I think you had a lot of gall to demand $150 night-sights for a rusting problem that at least possibly might have been your fault.
 
boomer said:
But I think you had a lot of gall to demand $150 night-sights for a rusting problem that at least possibly might have been your fault.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

Well sort of.

First of all, I don't think it was his fault. I read the thread over on AR15.com and they took it to him pretty hard about it being his fault. I just don't see how anyone could bring on rust in only a week with little to no handling, short of leaving it soaked in salt water. That along with Coronach's testimony leads me to believe it is definitely a S&W issue.

I see no problem with requesting night sights for his trouble. I did, after I experienced a bind in the mag release that prohibited the magazine from securing inside the mag well. I sent a polite letter asking for the addition of the night sights. They added them. And I'm a happy customer, despite having a problem with one of their guns (I own 3 M&Ps.)

I do agree that he probably won't get his money back. At this point all he can hope for is a fixed pistol that he is happy to keep and shoot or a new pistol that he can sell as LNIB.
 
When I wrote redesign I should of stress in the materials, and finish used in the construction of the M&P. The gun is rusting because the metal is not treated properly and maybe the composition of it is a poor choice for the intended use on a gun.
Click to expand...
I generally concur, then. I think that they're probably having problems with a subcontractor (no excuse, it's still their product) or a supplier that is not providing materials to spec. That would explain why two seemingly identical guns will have much different resistance to oxidation...the steel isn't consistent, or the stuff they put on the steel is not consistent.

If that's what it is, that's an easy fix. You smack your sub or supplier upside the head and tell them they're out of a job if they don't supply the proper materials in the proper quality. What makes me go hmm is why they switched from the steel they use in the Gen 3 auto lineup...that stuff just won't rust. Period.

Mike
 
I was not impressed with either. The triggers were gritty, and the accuracy was no better than any 3rd generation S&W pistol I've owned or shot. The breakdown involves tripping a yellow paperclip looking sear release.
Click to expand...
I really fail to see why takedown is such an issue. Can someone, anyone explain this to me?

As to the rest, the trigger is unimpresisve out of the box. It gets better through simple use. If you send it to Dan Burwell it will be extraordinary. Accuracy is fine with mine. It hits where I aim, in small groups. My 4506 never did that (well, it hit where I aimed. The groups just weren't that small).

Mike
 
Point taken, Tydephan.

But I was not saying that it was definitely his fault. I just said that it could have been. Maybe the thing was rushed out the factory door with an improperly cured finish. Maybe Jamesr's sweat (like mine) will pit any surface softer than Ti in three exposures or fewer. Maybe the holster he kept it in was outgassing 3-molar flourine. I don't think any of us -- including the original poster -- can know for sure.

And I guess if you never ask for freebies (like me) you'll never get'em.

FWIW, Jamesr, I hope Smith does fix the problem to your liking. They've been one of my favorite gunmakers since I was old enough to understand brand names, and they're a company I want to believe in.

Good luck! (not sarcastic, this time.)
 
But I was not saying that it was definitely his fault. I just said that it could have been. Maybe the thing was rushed out the factory door with an improperly cured finish. Maybe Jamesr's sweat (like mine) will pit any surface softer than Ti in three exposures or fewer. Maybe the holster he kept it in was outgassing 3-molar flourine. I don't think any of us -- including the original poster -- can know for sure.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree that all of these things are possibilities, even without knowing what 3-molar flourine is. :p

And I guess if you never ask for freebies (like me) you'll never get'em.
Click to expand...
That is the first time I have ever requested anything like that when having to use a Repair Department. I did it at the recommendation of another member, never expecting it to actually happen.

Have a good'un!
 
Coronach said:
I really fail to see why takedown is such an issue. Can someone, anyone explain this to me?
Click to expand...

Well...yeah Mike.

You see. You gotta take this little thing that is conveniently located in the grip and use it to flip down a nice "I don't have to pull the trigger to disassemble and risk blowing my boys off" deactivation lever. Don't you know...it takes forever to do.

If you're in a hurry, you don't even have to use the grip tool or the deactivation lever. The thing can be disassembled by pulling the trigger if necessary.
 
Coronach, it's not that takedown was, "such an issue", simply one more turn off, for me. The yellow painted sear release looked flimsy, not durable, and contributed to MY overall negative impression of the M&P series. Reading about the additional mag release problems, and poor QC, has not changed my impression.

I'm also not a fan of Glocks takedown procedure of having to pull the trigger, prior to removing the slide. I'll stick with the S&W 3rd gen pistols. To each his own. TJ
 
Hey, you got burned by S&W. It happens. I've been there, too. In fact, I think they had this guy running customer service dept. at the time.

To be honest, though, it's just as likely to happen with SIG, CZ, Beretta or anyone else. Going with someone else isn't going to even come close to guaranteeing you a good experience. If you go with that option, you do it out of principle-- not because of any practical benefit. And you have to hope the next company you give your money to doesn't screw you over as well. The day is long past (if in fact it was ever here) that a gun manufacturer was in business to make well-crafted firearms.

Also, I think Coronach nailed it. I don't think this is a design issue; this is a QC and materials issue. It doesn't excuse their lax behavior, but if you bought an M&P you must have liked it. Keep on them till they make it right. You bought a gun you like, not membership into some fraternal order. S&W The Company, IME, sucks. Hard. S&W the pistols, though, are pretty good. Keep on them. Pester them. If you can see to it that they lose money on this deal, do it. But just remember SIG, Beretta, Colt, Ruger, etc are the same way. You're buying a gun. You're not buying some sort of club membership. Loyalty to a company should never enter into the equation, because they all suck equally. (Well, maybe except for HK. I guess it's possible they suck a little bit more. Too bad they make good stuff.)
 
boomer1911a1 said:
Maybe the holster he kept it in was outgassing 3-molar flourine.
Click to expand...

Or, at least, bi-cuspid chloride...

This reminds me of an interesting thing that happened to me about 20 years ago. I had a small Buck folding knife in my car (which was 420A stainless steel) and a girlfriend picked it to look at it. She opened it and simply touched the edge of the blade. I mean, just lightly clamped the edge of the blade with her fingers and then put it down.

The NEXT day, there was a semi-circle of rust where she had touched it and the blade still had some residual factory oil on it (it was new). A light stain from that rust is still on that blade to this day. That was some kind of acidic touch.

I'm not suggesting this is what happened here, it just reminded me of that knife.

I wonder if the Smith parts weren't rinsed properly during manufacture or something? Disappointing, indeed.

Oh - an aside for boomer1911a1. I've heard of manufacturers issuing full refunds for a product you're not satisfied with. I've heard of it happening with Ruger and another American manufacturer (who's name escapes me at the moment). It's not something I would do with that Smith at this point, but I would certainly call them again. The shipping and parts replacement is all on their dime.

Good luck with it.
 
KESTREL --- (Or anybody else for that matter):

Do you have direct personal knowledge of said refund? Or is this a FOAF story? (friend of a friend)

If anybody reading this has direct personal experience with an individual getting a refund on a firearm from the manufacturer, please PM me! iF IT'S TRUE, I'll eat every ranting, pendantic word I've posted about it.

Thanks!
 
I've already posted this on other threads, but my M&P was actually in a river and remained in a plastic bag soaking wet for hours. There is absolutely no rust on the gun. It looks just as good as the day that I got it.

I bought another one since then and, although it hasn't seen any river time, it has no rust issues either.
 
boomer,

One instance I can confirm happened to me with a Ruger MKII years ago. (This is not the same situation I was referring to in my earlier post, by the way.)

Years ago I bought a SS Ruger MKII from a dealer. I later noticed the front sight was canted to one side. The dealer saw it, too. I asked them to return it to Ruger for repair. A few weeks later, it came back - still canted. I asked the dealer to send it back, again. They did and it came back still canted! The dealer saw it, too. I asked them to send it back and Ruger offered to either refund my money or replace the receiver. I had them replace the receiver. (After it was over, they had ended up replacing the front site, the barrel and the receiver. I had to fill out another 4473.) I don't know why it was such an ordeal.

It came back correct - after three tries, but Ruger did offer to refund my purchase price. (This was a good dealer and they would have given me a refund, too, if I had asked for one. Since Ruger or the dealer was paying shipping, I just let it go back and forth until correct.)

Not a firearms company - but many years ago, I also had a computer manufacturer refund my purchase price for a defective monitor they were unable to repair. This was not through a mail-order company like Dell, they did not sell direct and the monitor was purchased through a dealer.
 
Maybe not that impossible...

Well, Kestrel's convinced me that it may be at least possible to pry a refund out of a major manufacturer. I'll retract that blanket statement now, but I still say they'll do a lot of repairing before they buy it back from you.

Let us know the final outcome, James.
 
See if they will replace it with another one, where do you live? I cant imagine a gun rusting out like that in any normal climate, are you in lousiana or fla or somewhere extremly humid? Just doesnt seem like that should happen
 
I am from PA, and own several guns all kept the same. This is the only gun that ever gave a rust problem. I think it is just a defective model.

I am calling in a little bit
 
Well I called again and voiced a formal complaint.

I got transferred to Jeff in customer service. He said my original slide was not finished properly from factory. He said the finish is done by salt bathing the slide, and when done incorrectly it will rust fast and can not be stopped. But if done right should not rust from water, sweat, or anything I did. He is sending another prepaid label to send the gun back in for the other items to be replaced. He said they should have never shipped it back with those items still having rust on them.

I went on to say I was unhappy about the whole situation, but after 10 minutes of complaining he said all they can do is just replace the rusty parts. He finished by saying to hold off for a couple of months to make sure no other parts rust, that way they can be replaced. Wow, that just build confidence.

So I don’t know what to say, but I am very unhappy with Smith and Wesson at this point. They admitted they sold me a gun with a defective finish. And said it was in no way my fault it rusted, but still refuse to go the extra step and replace the gun.

I guess when I get a chance I will send it back again. And wait again for 2 weeks without my gun.
 
but after 10 minutes of complaining he said all they can do is just replace the rusty parts.
Click to expand...

I don't understand why this isn't sufficient? Maybe I'm missing something. I know that you are upset that it has had problems, but it seems they are offering to take care of the issue.

Then, you'll have a new slide, new pins, sights, and everything. Send it in. Let them replace everything.

When you get it back, shoot the pee pee out of it. If something rusts down the road, send it in again. It's a lifetime warranty.

Or if you are tired of messing with it, trade that sucker in for another gun. I guess it all just depends on how much you like the M&P.

Btw...you talked to the right guy. Jeff is the one that most people rave about over on the Mp-pistol forum.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
My week old rusty M&P, the final chapter…..
Replies
21
Views
1K
ArchAngelCD
ArchAngelCD
C
  • Locked
M&P rust problem
Replies
4
Views
947
ZeSpectre
Z
G
  • Locked
Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm
Replies
8
Views
569
gypseylee2
G
J
  • Locked
A Smith and Wesson M&P Must Read...
2 3
Replies
54
Views
7K
littlegator
L
M
  • Locked
S&W M&P 40 Slide rust
Replies
11
Views
1K
HOOfan_1
H
Back
Top