Freaking Out About Handgun Decision!!!

[dspur15]

Alright,

I'm in the market, well not really since it's a gift (birthday present), for my first handgun. I'm turning 20 at the beginning of April and have been begging for a handgun after competing in my first IDPA match a few weeks ago. I'm your typical constantly broke college student but If I can get the gun I can divide up my change jar between uh... weekend entertainment *cough* and ammunition.

So anyway I'm asking the old man for a pistol as my one and only gift, and after going to the range and trying out all the popular models I've narrowed it down to two (well two models, but four configurations or whatever).

Right now i'm asking for a a Sig Sauer P226 Enhanced Elite, a Plain Jane P226, a 4.5" Springfield XD-M, or a 5" Springfield XD Tactical in that order of preference and price. Now I know this is what I want because I spent all day at the range shooting all kinds of pistols and these are the ones that fit me the best (i'm now an official Glock hater )

So now the real issue is the constant shadow lurking in the back of the forums that is the debate between 9mm and .40 S&W...

Hopefully this won't cause too much flaming here on the thread but i was just basically hoping I could get a little bit of a public opinion survey from all you forum members. Originally I wanted .40 but I've had the least experience shooting it and while I remember it's popularity growing over the past several years it seems that now people are switching back to 9mm and using +P rounds if they really need the extra power. I can understand that 9mm offers higher mag capacity, slightly cheaper ammo, less recoil, and only slightly less performance. So while originally I thought of the 9mm as a little baby round I've come to realize that the performance differences have little real-world bearing. If I ever have to defend myself 5 center-mass shots of 9mm will do about the same thing as 5 shots of .40 (hopefully I won't ever have to find out)

So anyway based on what you use should I give the .40 a shot or just stay with tried and true 9mm. Oh and for the XD's i'm just going to get .45 ACP. I know this is my first gun but honestly I felt the most comfortable shooting .45's and achieved the best results with them. My whole problem is that the p226 isn't offered in .45 and I'm pretty sure i don't want a p220.

Sorry for the long post that basically is concerned with a much hated topic but I need info quick (hopefully by tomorrow) about what you actual shooters think, and i figured it would be better to talk to some real people versus looking at blocks of ballistic gelatin or reading articles by professional tactical shooters that I can barely understand.

Thanks!

 

[Canazes9]

I see you shot an IDPA match - don't think it matters in IDPA, but a 9mm won't make major in IPSC. I'll leave others to discuss caliber merits - I prefer 40 but would feel well armed w/ a 9mm as well.

David

 

[azranger]

Excellent choice on the Sigs, you can't go wrong there. Between the 9mm and the.40 cal I would go with a .40 sig, that will give you the option of allowing a 9mm conversion barrel to be used. Usually the .40 p229 will let you use 9mm & .357 Sig conversion barrels and the 9mm ammo is easier to get and cheaper to buy if that is a consideration for you. I have a p229r Elite in .40 cal with an EFK 9mm conversion barrel and I am very happy with it. Good luck with your choice.

 

[NG VI]

9mm let you shoot more. +P 9mm is still 9mm, it's not going to boost recoil significantly unless you are shooting an ultra-light pocket gun and it isn't going to turn it into a different caliber. It's a good idea to use it if the load you like happens to come in it, but for everyday range practice whatever's cheapest is the best choice. And it is a very efficient defense round.

.40 is the first caliber I bought, it was great. I really like it, allows you to push a heavier bullet at the same speed or if you like light for some reason allows to push a light bullet faster that still weighs more. It's always available. It comes in 9mm sized guns, unlike the .45 ACP, and having very much medium sized hands and liking capacity, this is a major bonus.

My first gun was a 13+1 round .40. A 13+1 round .45 would have to have either a very wide or a very long grip, one way uncomfortable and one inefficient and not really worth it.

 

[dspur15]

Excellent choice on the Sigs, you can't go wrong there. Between the 9mm and the.40 cal I would go with a .40 sig, that will give you the option of allowing a 9mm conversion barrel to be used.

Wow... in my haste I totally forgot about that. That is one of the main reasons that I was going for .40 initially. Thanks alot for reminding me. I think that pretty much settles it too because even if I don't like the .40 i'll be able to make enough over the summer to easily afford the conversion kit to 9mm.

 

[dspur15]

Canazes9

I see you shot an IDPA match - don't think it matters in IDPA, but a 9mm won't make major in IPSC. I'll leave others to discuss caliber merits - I prefer 40 but would feel well armed w/ a 9mm as well.

Can anyone explain this to me. I'm definitely interesting in doing more of these practical shooting style competitions but I only have very limited experience in IDPA and absolutely no knowledge of IPSC. I've been looking around on their website and am having trouble finding what you are referencing.

 

[Remo223]

You must have a certain minimum power level in order to be allowed to compete. It's harder to shoot a more powerful firearm fast because of recoil. So they don't let the smaller guns compete against the bigger guns.

 

[dspur15]

Alright. I found all that under the division rankings on the IPSC site. However, it seems that if I was to get a Sig P226 in 9mm and didn't modify it in any way I would be eligible to compete in the Production Division Major. It says their is no applicable power factors for the major and the minimum cartridge is 9x19mm. Did I get that right or did I miss something. I'd probably want to be in that division anyway so I wouldn't be stacked up against people with crazy race guns or other modifications

 

[doc2rn]

I shoot the FNP-9 (the only polymer gun I was impressed by), Glock hater too since I had a 32 Kaboom on me! I just think 9mm is a very versatile round you can do alot with and thats the way I would go. You will be able to get ammo cheaper therefore shooting more. Just graduated a yr and a half ago myself so I know about college finances. XD would also be the way I would go.

 

[9mmepiphany]

You did get it correct about IDPA, there is not scoring advantage to shooting a larger caliber(except in CDP where you must shoot .45ACP)...it is all scored the same. Just as a side not, if you want to shoot IDPA with a Sig 226, the Elite model won't make it either...the beavertail makes it too big to fit in the box. The regular 226 will be fine for Stock Service Pistol (SSP)

If you want to compete with either XD, you'll be in Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP) rather than SSP. In .45ACP, I think you could even shoot it in Custom Defensive Pistol (CDP) if you are willing to download your mags to 8 rounds...the advantage is that you would be competing against more lightly modified guns.

I've only fired the XD (regular or m) in 9mm and I felt that the 5" Tactical hung and pointed better, it also had a bit less muzzle flip. Unless the XDm gives you a marked advantage in the way it fits your hand, I think you'd be better off with the Tactical

I've been shooting a 226ST in ESP (due to weight) and am thinking about going to the S&W M&P in SSP class. I can tell you that you can be very competitive in SSP with the 9mm 226

 

[Canazes9]

I am certainly no IPSC expert - My son and I occasionally compete locally for practice and fun. Here's the link to Wikipedia, seems to be right - I know Wikipedia is suspect, but this seems to match my understanding of the rules and is much easier to read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor_%28pistol%29#IPSC.2FUSPSA_Power_factor

HTH

David

 

[Patriotme]

Broke college student?
.40cal is running $5-$6 higher per box than 9mm at my local Walmart. If you're planning on shooting regularly then it adds up.
I reaaaaallly like the .40S&W but I decided to switch back over to 9mm during the Obama ammo drought. It was cheaper, easier to find and easier for the family members to shoot. No hate for the .40cal though. I decided to give up a bit of stopping power and go with 9mm in order to help guarentee finding ammo during the next drought or crazy price increases.
www.handloads.com has a good chart on stopping power for the various calibers. You do give up a bit by going with 9mm but it's not that much.

 

[Lex Luthier]

Freaking out and handguns are too distinct to be in the same sentence. Slow and steady gets 'er done.

 

[Jeb21]

Get a 9mm, it is less expensive to shoot, it is an effective self defense round. Also go with the plain jane Sig 226. It is good enough for the Navy Seals, it is good enough for you.

 

[KodiakBeer]

The best advice you'll get is to buy a Ruger or Browning .22. And I promise you this is good advice...

Learn to shoot with a .22 (cheap ammo, low recoil) and then after shooting many thousands of rounds, buy your 9mm or .40.

 

[TreeDoc]

KodiakBeer speaks the truth, as limited funds go, seems you can always find enough change in the couch for a box of 22 shells. $15 for 500 rds vs. $90/ 9mm, $120+/40sw.

 

[NG VI]

Or for the same price as the Sigs you could ask for a CZ 75 or 85B or D and a Kadet kit, gun feels better than the Sigs or XDs to me and the Kadet kit is in my truly biased opinion the absolute best .22 conversion out there. They sell a standalone Kadet but I'm not sure how easy it is to find a complete 9mm top end for the 75.

 

[benEzra]

According to this, power factor doesn't count in Production Division in USPSA/IPSC.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=104300

If you are shooting USPSA, and in Production Division, you are scored minor regardless of power factor down to 125,000 PF. A's are 5pts, B/C's are 3 pts and D's are 1pts in minor. For all other divisions, and shooting major (165,000), A=5, B/C=4, D= 2.

Wikipedia agrees:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Practical_Shooting_Association#Production_Division

Production Division[4][5] is strictly limited to the use of production handguns with actions that are double-action-only, double-action/single-action or striker-fired – mostly in the caliber of 9mm. These are the “duty guns” available from nearly every pistol maker and each of the major manufacturers offers a wide variety of models that meet USPSA Production Division requirements. Stock revolvers may also be used, including the 7- and 8-shot variants. USPSA greatly restricts the level of modifications that can be performed on a Production gun.

While capacity is not uniform across model, caliber or manufacture, USPSA levels the playing field by limiting shooters to just 10 rounds per magazine. Regardless of the round used in Production, the division is scored as a minor power factor. Holsters and allied equipment must be “non-race-type” and be worn behind the forward most point of hip. Most shooters use a standard outside-the-waistband belted holster intended for daily wear, often made of kydex or plastic.

If I were buying a handgun as a first gun and wanted to shoot USPSA Production or IDPA, it'd be a 9mm for reasons of cost, capacity, and recoil. Just my personal preference. However, .40 S&W is also an excellent choice, and as others have stated, conversion barrels are available.

The best advice you'll get is to buy a Ruger or Browning .22. And I promise you this is good advice...

Learn to shoot with a .22 (cheap ammo, low recoil) and then after shooting many thousands of rounds, buy your 9mm or .40.

I'd agree that this would be good advice in a lot of cases, but if someone is already to the point that they are shooting IDPA matches with borrowed guns, a .22 is going to be a rabbit trail. As I understand it, the OP wants a pistol that he can continue to shoot IDPA/USPSA with, and competition will teach you a lot about practical marksmanship and competent gun handling.

 

[BCRider]

I see from your first choice of Sig's that you're likeing the hammer fired guns. Have you tried a CZ75 or 85? I only ask because a lot of us like them not just for their lower prices compared to Sigs but how they feel in the hand and how reliable they are. And if you're looking at the shooting games then a 75 or 85 both fit into the Production and SSP just fine. And best of all they are about 2/3 the cost of the Sigs.

As for ammo if you've talked your 'rents into a gun I can only assume that at least your Pa is also a gun guy. If so then why don't you look at both of you investing in reloading equipment? The initial outlay for a progressive press, dies and other gizmos is up there but once you're set up you can reload 9 or .40 for about half the cost of even cheap factory ammo. The outlay for the equipment once amortized over the first 10k rounds becomes a minor cost. And if you can talk your Pa or more from the family into partaking of the fun of a day at the range running around under the stress of a timer and some RO's you'll all come out of it a better shooter with more confidence and have a bunch of grins over who got the best scores....

 

[mgmorden]

I'd say 9mm. Ammo is cheaper which will suit your budget well (I remember those college years - lets just say I ate a LOT of those Banquet microwave dinners back then ), if you're shooting in competition then as other have said, power factor isn't an issue in USPSA Production division nor IDPA, and realistically, a 9mm is a perfectly capable defensive round. Most of the world's militaries aren't using it just for the heck of it - they use it because it offers a great balance of magazine capacity and power.

Since you're receiving the gun as a gift I don't have much advise there - however much they want to put into it really. Being a big Ruger fan though, I'm REALLY liking the SR9. I don't even own one (yet) myself, but I've shot one several times and really, really enjoyed it. I do have a Ruger P95, which is an excellent value for the price, but just IMHO, I think the SR9 is worth the $100 or so more.

 

[dspur15]

Thanks for all the response everyone.

Now let me sort through some of this stuff...

9mmepiphany: Thanks for the heads up on the elite not fitting in the box. That would indeed be a problem. I'll probably end up with the normal p226 anyway just because of cost issues. I'm not sure the features of the elite are really justification for the price difference. I just liked the beaver tail because i'm a pretty big 1911 fan but it's not worth an extra $200-300.

Patriotme:

Broke college student?

Haha definitely. I'm spending $25,000 a year instead of making that much or more. College definitely puts a major drain on the wallet and i'm not going to Harvard or anything like that, and my parents are of decidedly average means. At least giving out alot of financial college aid is one thing the government does right. Good to know about ammo though. I'm going to get in touch with some of my local stores and see what the price difference is like.

KodiakBeer:

The best advice you'll get is to buy a Ruger or Browning .22. And I promise you this is good advice...

I appreciate the advice and i've heard it many times. I've got access to a 50's Colt Woodsman and a 70's Colt Diamondback. I try to get in practice with them as much as possible but the woodsman is in original packaging so I feel bad using it because it's more of a family collectors item. However, i do shoot them occasionally. I think a good solution to this would be to buy a .22 conversion kit for the Sig. That way i'd be training with a gun that is identical configuration to my self-defense/competition/carry gun.

Lot's of recommendations for the CZ75. I do like the 1911 style guns or guns with a 1911 grip angle or beefy grip and a beaver tail. Unfortunately I didn't get to try that out at the range so I might have to look into this. Thanks for the heads up.

...and Ruger SR9. Another good looking pistol. Another one I haven't had experience with. Unfortunately I haven't gotten to shoot alot of pistol that would be definite options and I'm a firm believer in a handgun "fitting" you and not having to force it with training and whatnot. For now I think i'm sticking with the sig or xd. I also shot the FN FHP, 1911, various Glocks, sig, xd, s&w M&P15, and a few others. Out of all of them the Sig was by far the best and the XD was a close second. Out of the rest they were all meh (indifferent) and for some reason the glock was like shooting a Nagant revolver with a bent barrel or something... I couldn't hit anything with it and it just felt... wrong.

Also as far as reloading me and a friend and maybe another guy or a dad or two are looking at getting a progressive reloading press. Also the friend is an amateur blacksmith who works at a camp in the summer so we plan on making cast lead bullets to really save on ammo.

That kind of brings me to another question which is easily googled, but does lead bullets do any damage (or any other problem) to modern pistols. I know you get more residue that needs to be cleaned out, but any other problems with them for cheap plinking ammo?

Didn't expect so many helpful responses but thanks for looking through the long post and if you got through this one thanks again. Right now i'm still really looking for pro's and cons between .45, .40, and 9mm besides the obvious ones. More looking at personal thoughts and experiences with them than public knowledge

 

[bcp280z]

Somewhere on here there's a debate thread over 9 vs 40, personally I love my 40 but the 9's about the same, plus cheaper, as stated, being a student and all. It's also easier on most guns. And if you got a good high end gun like the Sig and some others, You can get additional barrels in 40s&w and 357sig for a fraction of a new one, they can share same mag.

Though since you are attracted to the XD, I was too at first, but have you held a Smith M&P?

 

[btg3]

9mm is good advice. Do the math... the cost of shooting a larger caliber can add up the price of another gun fairly quickly.

 

[forgetitohio]

I shoot in USPSA and I use a .45 185GR. SWC @950FPS gives me a PF of 175.
I'd rather be over than under. If you don't re-load and want to shoot .45 almost all store bought 230GR. RN. will make major.
They'll chrony you for qualifiring matchs and in regular weekly matchs by random. You wouldn't believe how many people try to get a edge.
You can shoot a .45 in minnor til you get use to the recoil. I did for about 6months til I built my own gun.
Alot of people use a.40 in limited major; .38 super in unlimited major.
It's a good time and you'll get to meet some interesting people. This not a cheap sport.
USPSA is loosing people to cowboy shooting cause their whole family can get involved, shoot different guns and get to dress like Roy Rogers. LOL


Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish. (Don't overdo it.) - Lao-Tse

 

[browningguy]

My regular carry guns are BHP's in .40, but for IDPA I prefer a 9mm. The 9mm is faster to get back on target and doesn't wear you out as much after a long day of shooting.

For a carry gun either works well, I feel just as comfortable with my XD9 Tactical in the holster as one of my .40's.