Got my 1851 Navy from Cabelas! Some Questions...

[TrafficMan]

first off, i'm actually suprised how solid this thing is. i was expecting something a bit more "toylike" but it is every bit as solid as my cartridge firearms. i'm impressed! the pictures in the catalog and internet pictures just don't do it justice!


it's a Pietta. the nipples came off rather easily using the nipple wrench provided from the Cabelas starter kit. this is kind of a dumb question, but can any of you recommened a screw driver to fully strip this thing? those screws are in there TIGHT and i don't want to booger 'em up. does dixie sell something suitable? second question, the nomenclature doesn't discuss what size caps to use...eventually, i probably will replace them with stainless or something, but does anybody know what the caps fit a "stock" Pietta 1851?

thanks fellas....

 

[Manyirons]

BEST way ya can go is tha full MAGNA TIP set from Brownells, CHEAP way around that is a magnetic replaceable tip screwdriver, you'll find at Lowes or some simular hardware place.

SLOWLY&CAREFULLY (Ya DON'T want to draw any temper from tha blade) grind tha tips to absolute SQUARE&PARALELL fit to each type of screw ya got!

PRESTO! Ya now gots a fitted screwdriver set to yer revolver, no more buggered screws!!

 

[mec]

I once made a split spanner blade from one of those magnetic screwdriver sets. It was to fit the side plate nut on a LeMat. I did it slowly with a small file so as not to compromise the temper. Before application, I ran the frame over an open flame to heat it up just a little. Pietta had put the sideplate nut on with a huge and unnecessary amount of torque but this thing worked just fine. Had to make another blade for the hammer screw as it had one of those thin 19th century type slots.

 

[Beartracker]

Caps for the stock nipples that I found to work great was the #11CCI , the Remington #11 is way to big. I changed my 51 Nipples to my 58 Remington nipples and they love the #10 Remington caps. Fit like a glove.My Colt also likes 22g of Pyrodex"P" and a .380 pure lead ball,No wads or fillers.
You can take any good screwdriver and slowly grind it down until it fits the width of the slot and length on the screw perfectly. Use water to keep it cool as your grinding or do it with a good bastard file.
Make sure you take that revolver completely apart and clean it well before firing the first time. Clean the barrel really well and you may want to "cure" it with Crisco or one of the bore lubes that are out there today.
Lube the parts before putting it back together and then lube the arbor and the slot that the cylinder hand rides in real well.
Hope this helps and have fun! That's what it's all about, Mike

 

[TrafficMan]

fellas, i can't thank you enough!

i just found a screwdriver that worked like a charm. i just disassembled it, and put it back together...that was an experience...first time i have ever taken apart a firearm down to the last screw thanks Mec for the sticky, i just followed your instructions, and things were pretty self explanitory once i got it down. i'm gonna do it a few more times today, so i can do it in my sleep. still need to get some crisco and get it all lubed up. i also got some J&B bore compound as recommended by the other sticky...

still a few questions....


seems like you have to cock the hammer "extra" hard sometimes to make it go into full cock...otherwise, it just goes into half cock...not all the time, but sometimes it just wants a little extra "ooomph" to get it to go. something i can do about this?

timing seems allright, but a few times it appears that the cylinder doesn't fully go into battery?

and what exactly can i polish on the internals to smooth her out?

fyi, i'll post some pics later.

 

[Old Dragoon]

TM,
I bought a gunsmith screwdriver set by Chapman at a gunshow and paid $30.00 for it and it has the screwdriver handle the insert driver(shaft) aratchet and all kinds of screwdriver tips and they are magnetic best money I ever spent to keep the slots pretty. Well worth the money They are made by The Chapman Mfg. Co. might be able to Google them and get it online way better than grinding, "OH! Sh** I broke it" and grinding again, and again and....

 

[Steve499]

Bass Pro sells B-Square gunsmith screwdriver sets for about $20.00. One handle and a lot of different magnetized tips are in a plastic case with a hinged lid. Like Old Dragoon, I think it was one of my better expenditures.

Steve

 

[dwave]

seems like you have to cock the hammer "extra" hard sometimes to make it go into full cock...otherwise, it just goes into half cock...not all the time, but sometimes it just wants a little extra "ooomph" to get it to go. something i can do about this?

timing seems allright, but a few times it appears that the cylinder doesn't fully go into battery?

and what exactly can i polish on the internals to smooth her out?

fyi, i'll post some pics later.

Make sure that you have the back of the cylinder lubed up good, not only on the jagged part where the hand rotates it, but in the area between that and the nipples. Check your frame and make sure there are no burrs in the area of where the back of the cylinder is. Check also to see if the barrel is causing the drag too. I had a similar problem with my 51, I had to smooth out a few burrs to get it going smooth.

What does everyone else think?

 

[mec]

Sound right to me. It could be the wedge is in a bit tight and pulling the barrel against the front of the cylinder. That can glitch up the timing sometimes. It seems natural to whack it in pretty tight but that's not always the way to go.

 

[Beartracker]

The first thing you want to do is quit pulling back that hammer until you figure out why it's hard to do.Take it apart take a real good look at the hand. They are a stamped part and the edges are sometimes very rough. That hand has to move up and down freely in the slot where it engages and turns the cylinder as you pull back the hammer.If the edges are a little rough on each side of the hand you need to smooth up the sides with a file if you have to. Removing some metal or rough edges will not hurt the hand at all. Just don't mess with the length.
To see just what I'm talking about remove the barrel and the cylinder and look at the slot where the hand comes up and then cock the trigger a few times to see what happens to the hand.You will see how it can drag against the slot on either side and how there is a slight depression on the arbor for the hand to bass by cleanly as it raises up.This is one reason you need to keep that slot and hand well greased.
Also make sure that your hand spring is tight enough and not bent in to far. To bend it out a little do so by bending in the middle and not where the hand spring sets in the hand,that can break it off.
The next thing to look at is the sear and bolt spring. Make sure it's fitting against the trigger and sear right before you tighten the spring screw down.
The next thing to check is where the bolt rotates meets the hammer. Make sure it's really smooth and no rough edges to get snagged.
Take your time tuning these 51 Navy's and they will run like there on silk. Some take longer than others and a little more tender love and care but once it's just right there's no better feeling than to know that you did it and you now know what to look for if you have any future problems. Hope this helps, Mike

 

[Weird Guy]

One thing I suggest is how to put the mainspring back on when you do get it apart. That is the long, bent spring that drives the hammer and is the only part inside the handle other than the wood grip.

Screw it onto the frame at an angle cocked to the side. The brass frame it is screwed into can strip easily. Just start the screw that holds it in, then when it is pretty close to tight you bend the spring down by hand and slip/rotate it sideways under the hammer roller. The hammer has a little roller on it to keep it from wearing out. Then if you feel like it tighten down the spring mounting screw all the way.

 

[sundance44s]

i don`t own a colt but from what i`ve read .. if yer cylinder is dragging on a colt ... its sometimes something to do with the wedge being to tight .. too much rearward pressure on the cylinder .. colt guys help me out here .. before he breaks something ...

 

[TrafficMan]

i just took it apart again, and have some stuff baking in the oven. filed a few burrs here and there too. i'm gonna get it all greased up and put back together here within a few minutes....i'll let you know how everything turns out.

 

[TrafficMan]

okay, she is back together...

here is what i did:

started with J&B bore compound on the bore and cylinders...worked that for a good half hour. sprayed everything down with brake parts cleaner. then washed everything (down to the last screw) with hot soapy water.

dried everything and baked it in my little toaster oven for a good half hour at 150 degrees. (i ran a few patches of crisco thru the bore and cylinders before i stuck them in the oven as well) after everything was hot, i wiped a combo of crisco and olive oil on the exposed surfaces. then lubed the internals with crisco and olive oil.

put a good ammount of crisco where the main spring hits that little wheel on the hammer, and around the bolt and cylinder arbor. worked it in real good. used olive oil to grease all the screws before i reinstalled.

night and day difference! she clicks good, lines up good...EVERYTHING IS GOOD! except....i boogered the screw on the lower screw on the bottom of the backstrap...i will need to replace it. otherwise, i'm happy!

 

[Beartracker]

Sounds like good news to me! You may want to repair that screw . Take a file and smooth the top and then you can cut the groove deeper with a hacksaw. Touch up with bluing and your all set. There is no need to over tighten the screws because you will be taking it apart all the time. Just watch the screw's that hold on the ram and the ram lever. They have a habit of coming loose on mine after a cylinder or two is shot.
As time goes on you may want to lighten the hammer spring and the trigger pull and a few other little tricks to help keep you running smooth. For now I would just go shoot a little and have fun . Then do some serious bench shooting to see where the sight's are for you and to work up a load that works best from your revolver. Mike

 

[gmatov]

TMan,

Knew you were gonna do that. Happens to us all, whether we have a good screwdriver or not. An accident when we know better.

Steve499 said Bass Pro sells the B-Square kit. Gander Mountain carries it in stock, too. 20 bucks. Worth its weight in gold. 1/8 flat blade up ro I think 3/8 and both thin and thick blades in most widths. Philips and mebbe even Torx, magnetised bit holder, the screws follow the blade out of the hole, better yet, will hold the screw so you can easier start it.

For screws, hard to beat Dixie's price, pack of all 14 for your gun, 12.50. Here's the link: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_434_435_440&products_id=1135

Most places sell them 1 X 1 for 2 to 3 bucks. If you're gonna buy that kit, for the shipping, I would get a spare hand and spring, 6 bucks, and a couple trigger/bolt springs, 3 bucks each. Better to have them and not need them than to wait a week or 2 if you break 1. Possibly a mainspring. Don't worry, they all fit all the Colt repros, 51, 60 and 61, and I think, the 73 cartridge gun, though they don't say that.

If you have a wedge problem, tapping it in too tight, send the gun back. It should not be able to do that, if the arbor is bottomed out properly. And, since you said ir would get stiff in one place or another, that should not be a wedge problem. The cylinders are faced off true to the centerline. A tight wedge would drag all around if it can be driven too deep.

You can, maybe, pull the wedge and rotate the barrel so it clears the barrel seat at the bottom of the frame and see if it will go on far enough to get interference. If it does, arbor is too short, I would send it back. You can also slip a piece of paper between the barrel and cylinder, tap the wedge a little tighter, see if you lose all your clearance. Make sure the hammer and the hand are not holding it forward to reduce the clearance, just pull back on the cylinder. If it does not close the gap, you should be okay. If it does, I would send it back. You can dress a long arbor, more work to stretch a short arbor. I should know, got an expert building up 2 for me right now, a 51 and a 60, and the wedge slot to boot.

Should get 'em back Monday AM, then some kitchen table 'smithin', as it's too danged cold to go to the garage, 'round here.

You're gonna love it. Only cartridge I've shot since I started this is a new 29 I bought, and my carry piece to keep it from gathering too much pocket lint.

Cheers,

George

 

[dwave]

When you take your piece to the range, make sure you take a screw driver, the front screw on the frame on my pistol tends to work out, and I have to tighten it down, or loose it.

 

[Manyirons]

Actually, full repair and cleaning kit to the range with you is a SPLENDID idea! Ability to adjust, clean or repair on site can save the day.

Old timers from 17th, 18th 19th early 20th centuries understood this, and always better; 'To have it and not need it than need it and not have it'

 

[sundance44s]

This is true everyone that shoots black powder guns of any type needs a well equiped shooting box .. spare parts , tools , lubes etc. a range rod is a good idea with a set of jags for swabing the bore .. sounds like a lot .. but like they say better to have it and not need it .. than need it and have to go home . getting everything you`ll need takes time and money but .. just think you can shoot for pennys a shot .. bought any 44 cal cartrages lately...or any of the large cal. pistols .. and the cap and ball will slow ya down too all the while haveing a ball . i find it very relaxing and rewarding .

 

[TrafficMan]

You may want to repair that screw . Take a file and smooth the top and then you can cut the groove deeper with a hacksaw. Touch up with bluing and your all set.

good idea, thanks for the advice. i got some oxpho blue waiting to be used for something anyways. LOL.

 

[Beartracker]

I like that stuff for touchups. It works great and easy to blend in. If you heat the screw just a little before reblu it it helps also. Mike