"Gun ban basically dead"

[Fishslayer]

As long as there are stupid politicians, there will be stupid laws.

Y'all need to get over this "they are stupid" thing. "They" are NOT stupid and their laws are NOT stupid when viewed as part of an agenda to disarm law abiding citizens.

I've mentioned before. They ride around in Gulfstream jets. WE pay for the gas. Doesn't sound too stupid to me.

 

[mljdeckard]

I don't think that referring to them as stupid equates underestimating their intentions.

 

[MagnunJoe]

All the damage is coming at us at the state level & not federal.

 

[labhound]

Even though Obama seems to be pushing his anti-gun agenda in the Senate, IMHO his real push has been at the State level where, in some states, he stands to get what he wants from the State legislatures. The assault weapons ban, hi-capacity mag ban and possibly the UBC may be dead in the Senate, but are alive and well in some of the States. The push back to his plans have not only come from the pro-gun community but also from Americans tired of Obama and the liberals trying to cram their agenda down America's throat!!!

 

[Bubba613]

OK, it's not 1994 anymore. Anyone paying attention to what the Senate is doing will know that of the three initiatives--AWB, hi cap mag ban, UBC, only the background check has any chance of passing. And I suspect that will end up being so watered down it will only apply to gun shows.
Federally we've dodged the bullet on this. It will end up as the worst political move of the Obama Administration. The states that passed very restrictive legislation, well they were going to do that anyway and good luck to the poor people who still live there.

 

[mljdeckard]

Right now I am thinking they will declare victory in state battles, and either get nothing at the federal levels, or neutered UBC with no information retention.

 

[itsa pain]

gun ban is not dead it is like a vampire in a coffin waiting to come to life when called on.they are chipping away at the states and they will get most of them to fall inline no matter how long it takes. they never stop

 

[theinvisibleheart]

will probably come back again, sooner or later, based on demographics.

Check how different groups voted, based on total popular votes and look at cross section of how different groups voted, e.g., women, male, young, old, etc.

Basically, the core of GOP is subsection of white, male voters(older, white, male) and by its very nature (older), it's not exactly fast growing demographic group.

 

[kwguy]

The efforts have STALLED. Whether they are killed or not depends on the elections next year. The most important elections in a generation.

That's right. Two key words: 'stalled' and 'generation'. This thing will never be over. We are basically fighting a machine. It is constantly waiting and preparing, and when it feels the moment is right, it will push harder. It (the senate stuff) may be stalled now, but it's not finished for good. I WISH it would be for a generation, but I feel it won't be for even that long.

We need to remain 'being a machine' as well. I can say this for the NRA, it's a machine. They have, and have had, a plan. Continued assault, and never give ground. It's a good plan. Economy of force, especially when you don't have billions to throw around. Focus it where it will do the most good.

I haven't seen too many ads from the NRA, and that's ok. Look at where we were in December vs. now. It's looking a LOT better now. That's because of us, and the NRA, and all the other organizations that are out there, fighting this on a political level. That's where the fight is. The AWB may be 'dead' for now (never say never), but they still want UBC, etc. They will always try to get what they can. We have to integrate fighting for this as a continual, subconcious part of our lives.

Remember, anything they get after this go-round, will still be a net loss for us. And, as sad as it is to say, there will probably be another shooting somewhere that they will try to exploit. Hopefully, in the aftermath of all this stupid nonsensical legislation, the schools and other vulnerable targets saw through the silliness of these agenda driven politicians, and took REAL measures to prevent any more of these 'spectacular attacks', in spite of our 'lawmakers'...

"Well Chief, one can only hope..."

"Yeah, sure, hope all you want after you're totally prepped and primed and locked and loaded. After that, it doesn't matter, and before then, you're just wasting your time..."

 

[HighExpert]

The whole mess is garbage. The point is to make less crime with guns happen. You don't make criminals reform their behavior by passing laws or, in most cases, enforcing those laws which we don't do nearly well enough. Think of these laws like Nascar with their restrictor plates. Cars were going too fast so they said restrict them with carburetor plates. Result the cars actually go just as fast and now they are all pretty much the same so they are more bunched up and there are more wrecks. Same thing with gun control, pass more laws, criminals ignore them, good folks obey which makes the criminals' lives easier. Sound about right?

 

[blakeci]

OK, it's not 1994 anymore. Anyone paying attention to what the Senate is doing will know that of the three initiatives--AWB, hi cap mag ban, UBC, only the background check has any chance of passing. And I suspect that will end up being so watered down it will only apply to gun shows.
Federally we've dodged the bullet on this. It will end up as the worst political move of the Obama Administration. The states that passed very restrictive legislation, well they were going to do that anyway and good luck to the poor people who still live there.

I have to point something out, "only applying to gun shows" since all dealers at gun shows conduct background checks as if they were at their store, what you are referring to is a ban on private sales. They are not going to pass some law that says private sales are only prohibited in some places, sometimes...

There is NO gun show loophole, they are talking about private sales, if you ban private sales that IS universal background checks

 

[itsa pain]

I think the NRA is almost useless they are always on the defensive because they can get more money from new members if they sit around waiting for the next disaster their main goal is getting more money gun rights are a by product. if they were really serious they would go on the offensive like overthrowing the ban on buying guns without FFL making full autos legal again. put these up and let the other side spend all their time and money to defeat it

 

[gc70]

Finally they came right out and said it on ABC this morning.

The media is a couple of days behind the White House in trying to reduce expectations. Just because our opponents are covering their flanks in case they lose, it does not mean that they have given up or will not continue to try to win.

 

[JRH6856]

The whole mess is garbage. The point is to make less crime with guns happen. You don't make criminals reform their behavior by passing laws or, in most cases, enforcing those laws which we don't do nearly well enough. Think of these laws like Nascar with their restrictor plates. Cars were going too fast so they said restrict them with carburetor plates. Result the cars actually go just as fast and now they are all pretty much the same so they are more bunched up and there are more wrecks. Same thing with gun control, pass more laws, criminals ignore them, good folks obey which makes the criminals' lives easier. Sound about right?

It might sound right if crime were the issue, but the point of the anti-2A folks is NOT to make less crime with guns happen. Crime is not their concern here. What they want is less violence. Any use of a gun is violent, so to eliminate violence, the answer is to eliminate guns. That is their ultimate goal.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

That is their ultimate goal.
__________________

Their goal is to eliminate the ability to resist.

 

[larryh1108]

Dead? Over? Waning?
Lol, right.
They are going state by state.
The laws are worse than a federal law.
How many blue states are there?
Every one will fall soon.
The red states have a chance but once you have all these blue states with horrible laws under their belts they will go federal.
It has only begun.
Who thought CO would fall?
NY, CT, etc ... that was seen but CO was a shock. There are more to follow. They are stabbing us to death with ice picks. One stab at a time.
Give up?
no!
We need to support the red states and keep them red.
Then we need to get as many people and resources there to keep them out.
When Obama is done, this country will be divided like nothing we've seen since the civil war. It will be red and blue. It will be ugly. They won't stop and we won't give in. Something has to give. I believe the gun owners have more resolve than the gun grabbers. However, the gun grabbers are sitting in position of power. We have to change that in 2012 and 2014. If we don't vote them out, then the country, as we know it, will never be the same. They aren't backing off, they are going full steam ahead.

 

[Bubba613]

I have to point something out, "only applying to gun shows" since all dealers at gun shows conduct background checks as if they were at their store, what you are referring to is a ban on private sales. They are not going to pass some law that says private sales are only prohibited in some places, sometimes...

There is NO gun show loophole, they are talking about private sales, if you ban private sales that IS universal background checks

They not only can, they will.
Gun shows are not just random events. They are termed "sanctioned events", which is why dealers are allowed to conduct business there. OTherwise a dealer is prohibited from selling outside of his premises. If they apply the background checks only to sanctioned events for everyone it will a) please the anti's, b) annoy fewer pro gun people, c)be largely enforceable. It makes perfect sense politically, which is why they will do it.

 

[blkbrd666]

When Obama is done, this country will be divided like nothing we've seen since the civil war. It will be red and blue. It will be ugly. They won't stop and we won't give in. Something has to give. I believe the gun owners have more resolve than the gun grabbers. However, the gun grabbers are sitting in position of power. We have to change that in 2012 and 2014. If we don't vote them out, then the country, as we know it, will never be the same.

+1...exactly. And while we're at it, we should pick a new color. How about......grey. Grey is a nice color...not as stark and hard on the eyes as red. Besides, they say red is bad for the mood.

 

[JRH6856]

+1...exactly. And while we're at it, we should pick a new color. How about......grey. Grey is a nice color...not as stark and hard on the eyes as red. Besides, they say red is bad for the mood.

Yesterday, I was talking to my cousin who teaches history. We were comparing the current political/ideological struggle over the 2nd Amendment to the 19th century struggles revolving around slavery. We agreed that by comparison the current situation is very similar to the late 1840's. And we all know what happened in 1861.

 

[X-Rap]

We are headed for trouble, there are two distinctly different Americas that are viewed these days and the differences are widening by the day. I have friends that rolled their eyes and thought I was nuts a few years ago that now see things differently.
Here in CO. there are Sheriffs starting to draw lines in the sand and that has become a movement of its own.
I hate to see a divided country but I hate to see it in a state that I don't want to live even more.

 

[Lantern]

I don't see much of anything stopping. I see Obama using the Sandy Hook people like puppets in his anti 2A agenda.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/obama-gun-control-speech-_n_3040363.html

 

[Zoogster]

It is never over.

We just had some of the most pro-gun years in history. With a lot of progress on things like concealed carry, Constitutional Carry, and a variety of things.
Yet they still managed to carve up multiple states and turn them into something worse than they had ever been.
Going from more positive gun culture and perception than in decades nationally to still losing some states was a rather strong reversal. They didn't even have momentum and still threw some states back to the dark ages. CO for example once a Rocky Mountain part of the west with some of the strongest gun and outdoor culture in the US is now an anti state that has joined the ranks of NY, NJ, CA, MA, etc
Other states have gone further that direction as well.


Yes national legislation was defeated, and what remainds should be if people keep the pressure on. However some years in the future it will come back up. After another 5-10 years those states just made worse will likely be even stronger anti-gun states and so the next national level legislation more successful.


When states have draconian restrictions in place long enough much of the population starts to believe it really is keeping them safe. Easing restrictions becomes the scary unknown.
All those middle and high school kids right now that don't understand what is going on will be adults they are trying to encourage to vote in 5-10 years who will have grown up in states that have had these various bans in place as long as they can remember.

Unless you actually repeal things and reduce existing gun control, you are only slowing eventual defeat. Because the states with bad laws will continue to grow, and the national population that funds and supports them will be larger even if your own state is not so bad. As the bad states increase the success of future national level restrictions is a greater possibility. It won't matter if your own state wouldn't have passed it.
Not even 50 years ago just licensing businesses that sold guns was considered a big deal. The GCA, creation of the FFL system, guns no longer sold like other tools at mom and pop stores, hardware stores, mail order directly to the house (would be the internet today), etc
Just around 20 years ago they started requiring everyone to ask federal permission to buy a gun from such licensed shops. The right intended to deter potential government tyranny, now required asking that same potential government permission on each purchase through NICs.
Now all of those things are just considered basic normal things, and people are instead concerned about the latest more radical proposals. Things that if passed would just be the normal thing a decade from now in the forward march towards loss of firearm rights.

Stopping the passage of more restrictions is not really winning, it is just not losing. Winning a battle that would help long term would be if you were able to repeal something that already existed, not merely stall passage of more restrictions. But not losing still took hard work and people should give credit to those that worked hard, and all those that made the effort to contact representatives, and those representatives that voted favorably and even more those that took stands.

 

[JRH6856]

^^^ Good post Zoogster. That is exactly how it works.

 

[Deanimator]

...and judging by the hysteria in the print and electronic media, the "universal background check" is coughing up blood.

The loons on MSNKVD trying to keep registration-lite alive remind me of a hack actor in some cheesy '70s drama, beating somebody in the chest with with their fist and bellowing, "Live damn you! Live!"

 

[JRH6856]

And while everybody is distracted by the drama in Congress, they are successfully pushing the agenda at the state level in as many states as they can. It's the Australian strategy.