Gun oil/CLP question

[lsudave]

Ok, here's the scenario- I read Grant Cunningham's article on lubrication, where he recommends Lubriplate FMO 350 AW as a "best in class" gun oil.
Based on that, I bought a gallon of an equivalent; Summit FG Elite 68. It has the same stated properties, and was advertised as an acceptable replacement oil for the Lubriplate brand. It is basically a 20 weight full synthetic mineral oil with anti-wear, anti-corrosion and anti-oxidant additives, and as such should be a fine lubricant and protectant. It is a food grade oil, and as such should be non-toxic and safe to handle.
It cost me $30 total for the gallon, or way less than most marketed gun oils.

So here's the question- based on MSDS and ingredients, it's apparently the base ingredient for Ballistol, a CLP I like. What, if anything, can I add to the oil, to make it also a good, non-toxic cleaner?
Ballistol also lists "oleic acid" and "several alcohols"... but I have no idea what that means beyond a general sense. What commonly available alcohol would be the right one to add? Something from the hardware section, a bottle of whiskey, what? And as for "oleic acid"... again, that tells me nothing. Is that a fancy term for Canola oil?

Ballistol also has a unique smell, and lists "several essential oils". If I were to add a vial of common Clove oil (for example), would this even mix, or stay separated in the base oil?

I'm just fiddling around, trying to make something I can effectly use. Thanks for any input.

 

[AZAndy]

That's an interesting question, and I look forward to the responses. Personally, I use CLP to clean, and 0W-20 synthetic to lube. I like the whiskey idea, but you would get more mileage out of Everclear-- though it wouldn't smell as nice as, say, Knob Creek. ;-)

 

[Blue68f100]

Blending oil is a science, just adding things normally does not work. During mfg they are added in a particular order for them to link up. Adding them out of order and they do not stay in solution. A lot of chemical require a coupling agent to allow them to mix. Oil in general is like this with additives. I would not do it.

But if you want to try, use a small glass jar so you can see if there is any separation.

 

[Clark]

As Blue68F100 says, oil is complicated.

go to Bob is the oil guy and start reading.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/

 

[boom boom]

As Blue68F100 says, oil is complicated.

go to Bob is the oil guy and start reading.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/

Interesting procedures outlined there on how to measure basics of any oil. Thanks for posting. Brought back memories of organic chem lab years ago.

 

[Clark]

I did not have to take Organic Chemistry, but my girlfriend did in 1974, and I sat through a quarter's lectures. It was a good thing I did not have to take tests on what I heard.
While inorganic chemistry seems to be a lot of easy applied mathematics problems, the organic chemistry gets more into memorization.
At Bob is the oil guy, I am amazed at how deep the information goes, and how quickly I get lost.
I can get to the point where I know why one should change motor oils when the car has more miles, but in a few weeks I forget the names of the additives.

So bringing my ignorance and ineptitude for memory learning to the OP article on gun oil
http://www.grantcunningham.com/2006/05/lubrication-101/

I believe all the facts and agree with all Cunningham's opinions.
I would add that my father once called moly grease "fifty thousand psi grease".
Lubricating cases for fire forming IS high stress.
Trigger pivot pins see more like 100 psi. That is low stress for lube.

 

[AJumbo]

I'm using Lucas Gun Oil in one of my AR15s and Valvoline synthetic motor oil on another. Functionally there is no difference, but I'm not generally running more than 100 rounds through either rifle on any given trip to the range. The Valvoline costs maybe 1/20th what the Lucas does.

 

[Danoobie]

Why not go with separate cleaning agents? In the bore, I use watered down ammonia,
straight Vinegar, and watered down Dawn. Dawn or vinegar also clean the actions, inside
the slide, and other internals. Vinegar is also good on rust.

 

[boom boom]

I did not have to take Organic Chemistry, but my girlfriend did in 1974, and I sat through a quarter's lectures. It was a good thing I did not have to take tests on what I heard.
While inorganic chemistry seems to be a lot of easy applied mathematics problems, the organic chemistry gets more into memorization.
At Bob is the oil guy, I am amazed at how deep the information goes, and how quickly I get lost.
I can get to the point where I know why one should change motor oils when the car has more miles, but in a few weeks I forget the names of the additives.

So bringing my ignorance and ineptitude for memory learning to the OP article on gun oil
http://www.grantcunningham.com/2006/05/lubrication-101/

I believe all the facts and agree with all Cunningham's opinions.
I would add that my father once called moly grease "fifty thousand psi grease".
Lubricating cases for fire forming IS high stress.
Trigger pivot pins see more like 100 psi. That is low stress for lube.

Clark,
You probably remember more from your quarter of lectures than I do. I also found organic chemistry more difficult than inorganic. Organic chem really does rely much more on memory which is why it is a traditional course that determines who gets into med school. Most my chemistry knowledge though is gone with the wind as I went a different path into doing something else long ago. I remember general chemistry principles and can balance equations and that sort of thing but have forgotten much of the specifics. That showed when I read bob's the oil guy postings--I could keep up on generalities on techniques like how to determine oil properties such as viscosity and volatility via fractional distillation but then boom--hit my ceiling.

However, in a practical sense, most automotive or machinery grease is probably ok as long as you avoid those using chorinated esters in the grease in high tensile applications (can induce cracking of the steel--I think something like that happened to Ruger on revolver barrels one time but don't remember specifics), most of it works pretty darn good depending on temps. ATF fluids work quite nicely as alternative gun lube as does any motor oil, synthetic or not. I suspect more trouble comes when you add stuff that is not well thought out or the fact that many natural oils become rancid and congeal than from simply using an old product consistently such as Ballistol.

I read something similar on oils from Patrick Sweeney's AR books. He has a chemistry degree and was a gunsmith for a long while btw. He apparently once used margarine as a lubricant for a lark in a training class-messy but it did work.

Grant's post that you put up is similar to what he has said in his books on revolvers from what I remember.

 

[CapnMac]

Well, to answer some of OP's questions.
Oleic acid is a generic term for monosaturated fatty acids; primarily a byproduct of pressed oils, like rapeseed and olive (but not tropicals like palm or coconut).
"Various alcohols" are going to be denatured products like isopropyl mixed with variants of both ethanol and methanol.

In balistol, the fatty acid content is likely a "soaping" agent; a vehicle to lift crud out of surface adhesion. The alcohol then are evaporative, so that crud, and the agent itself, does not simply adhere to the surface itself.

As stated above, this stuff is not just stirred together mechanically. When working with oils, temperature and pressure are usually marrowly monitored, and there's usually a specific order for things to go in. Which is also a use for alcohols listed as ingredients, one of the other ingredients is dissovled or used in solution with the alcohol as a solvent, which then binds to the m=end mixture, but then evaporates (mostly) away.

When a manufacturer makes these things, they develop the product and, if it needs other things to meet the desired performance, those things are added until the desired feature is achieved.

While it can seem lie we are being raed over the coals for the prices charged for the products we use, what we are doing is paying for help with actual degrees in o-chem, and all of the tubes, pipes, reactors and the lie to give us the end products which mae our lives better/easier.

 

[jerry.morry4]

Read about best gun cleaning oils and lubricants.
http://bestfrugaldeals.com/the-best-gun-cleaning-lubes-and-lubricant-spray-reviews/

 

[tnxdshooter]

Don't know. For tough cleaning I either use ballistol or rand bore and bolt. As far as oils go I only use either breakthrough hp pro oil or Rand CLP.

 

[Jim Watson]

Ballistol is the product of the German lubrication industry of 1904, they wanted what we now call CLP for Mausers getting the new high velocity spitzers with their corrosive primers, hot smokeless powder, and Tombak, plated steel, or cupronickel jacketed bullets.

I have concluded that at least part of the non-mineral oil ingredients in Ballistol are emulsifying agents.
Ballistol is often mixed with water, anywhere 10% to 50% to produce an emulsion known as "Moose Milk" that is favored for cleanup of corrosive primers and/or black powder.

Many extravagant claims are made at http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?38017-Ballistol-Germany-s-gun-oil-and-wound-disinfectant
If you have an old Stoegers catalog, the older the better, you will see a full page ad for Stogerol with claims almost word for word the same as Ballistol.

 

[Nature Boy]

I quit using breakfree CLP when I started purging my bench of the more toxic chemicals. Replaced it with Ballistol and am happy with it as a lubricant as long as temps are above freezing

 

[tnxdshooter]

I quit using breakfree CLP when I started purging my bench of the more toxic chemicals. Replaced it with Ballistol and am happy with it as a lubricant as long as temps are above freezing

Everything I use is supposedly completely non toxic. Whether it's Rand bore and bolt, Rand clp, ballistol, breakthrough clean solvent, breakthrough hp pro oil, and breakthrough Battleborn grease!