@GBDP ,

Given the process steps you’ve stated (anneal, neck turn, and trim), I’ll make the assumption the design focus is on rifle brass prep and you want to be able to progress through those steps linearly.

A couple of comments:

1. You need a resize/deprime step after annealing
2. Not everyone needs to turns necks. That may or may not matter given the goals of your project.
3. The link to the Dillon RT1500 I posted above incorporates resize/deprime/trim into a single step and is modular to Dillon presses. That might give you some ideas.

I’m excited to see where you and your fellow students end up with this. Keep engaging and asking questions.
 
Nobody has made a great priming system that is safe and fast and efficient.. The quickest way to stop a good reloading session in its tracks is a flipped or misfed primer. (the reason why so many prime off press) Or worse, in most spectacular fashion (being that it is the most dangerous part of reloading) when those little explosives go off in unison.....a whole tube, a whole tray at a time.

Inline swaging is a good thing the 1050/1100 has, to attempt to prevent some of that when loading crimped brass, but I can't speak for how trouble-free it is....jmorris probably can.

RCBS had the most safe system, but strips, though daisy chainable, added the step of having to add strips every 25 primers. But I think the record mishap was three primers going off at one time.

Lee's trays might be a little more safe than tubes, but they are not as fast nor as efficient as tubes even if you can fill the trays faster....they don't feed as well.
 
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Honestly it's hard enough to get a single station right every time. I be a hot mess with that much going on at once....
It was very aggressively priced, when introduced at SHOT.

It comes with their motor drive, case feeder, Mr Bullet Feeder, collated priming, and a new drive system with variable tool head stroke for just $6k
 
As a team we are designing a modular system that hopes to incorporate a press, annealer, neck turner and trimmer. So if there's any areas of these products and process that you find difficult feel free to rant here as it will be very useful for us.

Reloading is not a one step or stage process. The majority of what you mention is case preparation.
That is the time consuming. more difficult part

Loading a prepped case is fairly simple.Prime, powder drop, seat bullet. Ammo factories have been doing it for years and years.

The expense for a "all in one" would be cost prohibitive for home use.

It is not a Ron Popeil set it and forget it.:)
 
A way to force people to read the instructions would probably be helpful to many. :)

Speeding up processes without adding any defects would be my goal. Reduce the time it takes to load quality ammunition or lower costs.

The stuff you are coming up with there would have to be pretty ground breaking for me to have interest, as there are already products out there.

Make, even a rudimentary machine, that works, that would “reload” a primer and I would imagine the kids would have their first job after Graduation when they are done…maybe even cover their retirement.

Thanks for the advice, one of our supervisors was talking about the time commitment at the larger quantities (300 a week at about 3 mins per casing gives 15hrs of reloading :eek:)

As one who has completed several of those projects on my way through higher education I can only say "good luck and best wishes" on your design project.

The teacher proabably knows very little about reloading or volume shooting. So the real questions for the project team to demonstrate are....
1) Can the team work together cohesively with each person doing his/her part?
2) Is the proposed solution reasonable? That is, do actions happen in a reasonable sequence?
3) Is the proposed solution well written and fully documented, with: a binder, a cover page, a table of contents, illustrations, footnotes, a glossary, an index, an appendix with vendor brochures, etc.

Of these #3 is proabably the most important. Pick the best writer on your team. Their sole job should be to document, because often times 98% of your grade is based on what your team submits to the professor. The professor could care less about miles traveled, phone calls made, time spent at the library, internal team issues, sickness, etc. As in the real world... bosses only care about hard results being submitted on time.
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Thanks for the advice and luck. We're definitely focussed on getting everything written up and justified.

That would be a lot better than one that’s anti 2A. Might even be better if they didn’t know what’s out there you could copy. Certainly better than one that thinks you shouldn’t be able to even own a gun…
Yeah back in ‘70 we had a rifle and pistol club (still exists) but I don’t recall ever hearing about reloading if it was a thing but it certainly wouldn’t have been in an academic context.
?? Gee what "University" would have that? Even back when I was at school and things more not as restricted we had no reloading 101.

It's an industry sponsored project so (unfortunately) they are pretty aware of what is out there, no copying for us! The lecturer is more interested in the design than any of the political side of things so we're relaxed on that front but it's definitely not a reloading course, just a big design one.

Build a BASIC press that is MODULAR and inexpensive (comparably priced with existing single stage presses)

Add on systems, to upgrade to turret and full automatic press, tool heads up to 10 - 12 spaces for dies or components.

Start with something like a Rock Chucker and modify or add-on. KEEP IT SIMPLE!

Being able to start out with a Dillon 450 and add a few $$ to make it a 550, then 650, and over a time, end up with a 1050, not 3, 4, 5 seperate presses. Quick change tool head, new caliber, flip switch, make ammo.

DREAM BIG!
Reloading is not a one step or stage process. The majority of what you mention is case preparation.
That is the time consuming. more difficult part

Loading a prepped case is fairly simple.Prime, powder drop, seat bullet. Ammo factories have been doing it for years and years.

The expense for a "all in one" would be cost prohibitive for home use.

It is not a Ron Popeil set it and forget it.:)

Yeah, price seems to be a driving factor, keeping it modular to allow people to build up their stations over time is our current plan. Also from what we can tell, people like to tinker with the process themselves and work with their hands, too much automation is not on the cards.

I would consider making annealing an optional part of your process since I would bet not more than 10 percent of reloaders anneal. Make it an optional module that can be added if desired and not an integral part of your basic machine.
I think incorporating annealing into your process would slow it down to a snail pace.
An induction annealer takes just moments to fully anneal a case neck and shoulders and would be the best option for a project like this. Its also arguably more accurate than a flame annealer. The big issue is getting it onto a tool head.
But wouldn't you have to wait for the case to cool before you proceed to another step ?? Just a guess.

Annealing is one of the major sub-systems and a lot of ideas (including stupid ones like annealing with friction heating) have been thrown around here. @mkl that's interesting about the numbers, definitely adds more weight to modularity and off-line processing. As far as cooling goes, it seems like the body and base act as a heat sink for the neck and shoulder which speeds up the cooling, by how much we'll need to test ourselves.

I think that’s a bit unfair if you’re serious.

He’s doing preliminary research and found a place that has a lot of information on the subject. No one here is in any way capable of doing any of the work he has ahead of him to pull this off.

You're on the money, we're pretty clueless when it comes to what exactly is involved or what people do or don't want. No point in designing something that isn't useful or wanted.

Honestly it's hard enough to get a single station right every time. I be a hot mess with that much going on at once....

What we've seen so far is that people prefer to tinker with the process themselves so no worries about massive machines here!

Thanks for the input everyone! I'm sure we've made a few mistaken assumptions here so please correct away and keep any reloading gripes coming!
 
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As far as cooling goes, it seems like the body and base act as a heat sink for the neck and shoulder which speeds up the cooling, by how much we'll need to test ourselves.

For annealing, you will want that process to be quick, so heat exposure is fast enough it doesn’t migrate down far enough to anneal the case head, just the neck and shoulder. Like this, note right out of the flame the case can be held by hand below the heated area.

 
An induction annealer takes just moments to fully anneal a case neck and shoulders and would be the best option for a project like this. Its also arguably more accurate than a flame annealer. The big issue is getting it onto a tool head.

I spent several years making and testing different work coils for a floatzoner machine (growing silicon crystals) we built for Samsung awhile back. I don’t think it would be an insurmountable task depending on the rate they are looking for, might not even need to be liquid cooled coils like the ones I was building (that will make it lots easier).

753DF59F-9DF9-49F8-A79C-A101B03764D3.jpeg

It would probably be something I would build into a die, if I wanted it modular. That brings me to a question of basic design. If it’s modular, I assume it’s going to be a linear machine, where one can add/take away operations? Or just a large machine that stays large even if only a single operation is required?

Being a sponsored project, what are the things they are asking for? The biggest problem I see is designing something without even knowing enough to ask the right questions. “Fresh eyes” can be a life saver but even taking on something like an induction annealer itself would make a decent senior project, there are lots of obstacles one will encounter on a “one press for everything” project.
 
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I spent several years making and testing different work coils for a floatzoner machine (growing silicon crystals) we built for Samsung awhile back. I don’t think it would be an insurmountable task depending on the rate they are looking for, might not even need to be liquid cooled coils like the ones I was building (that will make it lots easier).

View attachment 1134917

It would probably be something I would build into a die, if I wanted it modular. That brings me to a question of basic design. If it’s modular, I assume it’s going to be a linear machine, where one can add/take away operations? Or just a large machine that stays large even if only a single operation is required?

Being a sponsored project, what are the things they are asking for? The biggest problem I see is designing something without even knowing enough to ask the right questions. “Fresh eyes” can be a life saver but even taking on something like an induction annealer itself would make a decent senior project, there are lots of obstacles one will encounter on a “one press for everything” project.

I think the Annie annealer or something like it would be workable as they seem to hold up well to volume as they are liquid cooled.
My concerns are the tool head itself and then the cool down cycle. Wouldnt you need to keep the aluminum of the tool head away from it? I suppose you could just figure out how far away you need to keep other metal to just have the heat on the case.
And wouldnt the cooling cycle on the brass be too long to make this process able to be fully automated at any speed? You certainly couldnt go straight from annealing to sizing with out a cool down period, and then you would have to deal with the case lube as well.
Im sure you have thought more about it than most though! Ive seen your YouTube videos :rofl:

I dont think annealing would be added in as a process. At minimum you would need to feed the press clean annealed brass. But from that point you could run all the operations on a single press head providing you have enough real estate. The only other issue I could see with that is case lube. Getting any case lube inside the case is a recipe for a misfire unless its something like OneShot that has been properly applied and flashed off before you start.
 
My concerns are the tool head itself and then the cool down cycle. Wouldnt you need to keep the aluminum of the tool head away from it? I suppose you could just figure out how far away you need to keep other metal to just have the heat on the case.
And wouldnt the cooling cycle on the brass be too long to make this process able to be fully automated at any speed? You certainly couldnt go straight from annealing to sizing with out a cool down period, and then you would have to deal with the case lube as well.

The cooling could be addressed and I wouldn’t be a fan of everything in one machine anyway because if one thing goes wrong at any step, the entire process is down.

Kind of like my casting operation, it’s not really a refined “clean sheet” design, rather stuff that works built from things I had sitting around collecting dust. Some things that could break might shut me down, keeping things separate I can pause the casting machine and keep coating and sizing. If it were all one machine, everything stops.



Same thing with the roll sizers, annealers and such, if they are case fed and capable of running and stopping themselves without destruction, I don’t really need them together as one, just within a few steps of one another.
 
I can say with absolute certainty, I do not want an integrated annealer, trimmer, and press. My presses, with the exception of my universal decapping press, are clean operations, devoid of powder or brass trimming contaminants. My annealer remains such as well, and I don’t particularly have interest in that changing - I’m vocal against the idiocy of the Burstfire unit which puts exceptionally dirty process steps on top of a shelf directly above the Annealing mechanism.

Frankly, torch based Annealing isn’t the way to go with any kind of novel engineered design. Recalling my own Design project from engineering school, and having participated in a few additional undergrad Design Projects as industry sponsor since then, chasing disproven and outmoded technology methods which the industry has surpassed is a pretty big misstep.

Affordable automation and increased precision are common problems being tackled by the industry these days - RCBS released their Matchmaster as an upgrade over their Chargemaster to compete with independent precision powder dispensers - Hornady started chasing the same as well. Induction annealing has displaced the torch as the standard tech for consistent annealing (as repeated analysis have proven torch based methods to be quite variable in result). Lee dropped their APP and ACP presses as inexpensive automated designs, Inline Fabrication has their niche of auto-kickers for various presses… pursue innovation in the direction the industry needs and wants innovation. Automation and precision.
 
I agree, but it could be useful for pistol and rifle games AKA 3 Gun.

Eh, even for my go-fast guns, hard pass. I didn’t love trimming on top of my Dillon, but it was the lesser of two evils, as I’d rather trim on press in that way than not trim at all, and I wasn’t pulling brass between sizing and loading for go-fast ammo. Annealing in the mix, I’m really not certain - even as a process engineer myself which used to design this kind of equipment - how to safely integrate annealing on top of a press, so I think that one is simply a breakdown in process. Individual reloaders aren’t going to buy and operate ammunition manufacturing equipment on par with true manufacturers, so we’re not running a quarter mile of roller track to deprime, anneal, then safely integrate back to a press with thermalcline segregation.

One problem I would LOVE to solve on my own bench is how to automate racking and packing. Orienting and racking, then orienting and packing rounds is one of the slowest parts of my current process, AND it is unfortunately a step which is NOT value-add. Which for a process designer, is a 4 letter word…
 
?? Gee what "University" would have that? Even back when I was at school and things more not as restricted we had no reloading 101.

Process, mechanical, and industrial engineering programs all around the country will accept firearms or munitions related projects. One of the projects I worked on as a grad student was biodegradable bullets for near-360 degree shoot-houses as training ammo for military and law enforcement. The university had patents for the relevant polymer class, and I had an aptitude for the project opportunity, and a nearby military installation which sponsored the exploration, so I got paid to make ammo and work up loads to operate M9’s and Glock 19’s, as well as M4’s (and the University was paid handsomely as well). I had better lab facilities off-campus at my OTHER job, so I did most of my test firing there, but I extruded polymer bullets in the milling science building of a D1 University.

I also shot an indoor smallbore 3/4 position league every Thursday night in a range under the Military Science building, and would sling my gear on my bicycle to ride across campus with my rifle. There were racks of Rimfire training rifles in the back room of the range at all times, which were used during the summer for 4H smallbore postal matches… I had my English Literature, Composition, and Written Communication for Engineers classes in that building, second floor…
 
Did anyone ask the real reason why
they want this info?

Sounds like pretty standard fare to me.

Engineering students have what is called their “Design Project” which is a continuous effort through most of a year, typically based on solving some industrial application issue. Universities solicit external companies for project ideas, and external companies sponsor or otherwise support the project work streams. We (the corporate sponsors of projects) will meet a few times with the students to present the issue they are to tackle, check in on their early phase conceptions (redirecting if necessary), then at least again to hear final presentations of the projects. It’s not so different than any other university research project being funded by enterprises, with the exception that graduate level projects conventionally involve publication for the student, whereas undergrad work (while also less complex and less developed as a graduate level project) only involves IP exposure to the students directly involved and the professors evaluating performance on the Design course.

The students obviously are not experts in anything, and equally, don’t need to be. They get fences drawn by professors and industry professionals supporting the design project, and direction for how to ideate and conceive the solutions in the right general direction, and they cook up ideas to solve the application topic. Some of the scoring is based on feasibility, some on economics, some on solution performance, and a LOT on the methodology of development to analyze the application to identify then responsibly develop suitable yet novel solutions. This certainly seems a little late in the year to just be starting a Design Project, but maybe his university only runs a semester course for their curriculum (more common, as I understand it, in industrial engineering or comp-sci engg than it would be in MechE or my own ChemE, as the designs can be smaller and more palatable in scope). Alternatively, some elite university programs out there effectively require a sufficiently monetizable business idea as a part of their design project program - where students are expected to collaborate on something which yields patents or otherwise licenseable or monetizable IP, which in many cases ends up as an LLC with the kids owning their first job and running on at least Series B or Series A funding.
 
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I’m not sure what kind of design they’ll come up with, but one of the criteria was modular. My take on that if you did not want the brass prep part of the system, just don’t include it. I have a separate toolhead with the trimmer as well and everything goes ‘round twice in order to get reloaded - be nice if it was all one step for me.
It wasn’t mentioned, but the sorting, tumbling and perhaps drying is part of my regime which if automated, and I could afford, I’d buy. The OP didn’t mention what condition the brass had to be in, but that has to be spec’d. Big difference between range pickup brass and a fresh box of Norma.
Hate to date myself, but I entered corporate doing designs in analog, think vacuum tubes and then transistors. I worked through the change into digital. I think this design they’re working on should be quantum…. Oh, and, there’s got to be an App for Android and Apple. As long as we can feed requirements, I want a primer reloader system!
 
Individual reloaders aren’t going to buy and operate ammunition manufacturing equipment on par with true manufacturers,

Most won’t but I know guys that have Camdex and Ammoload machines. One also has a 5 axis Fadal in his garage “to play with”. Have watches that cost more than my truck…

There are fewer of those folks out there than ones that would be interested in the Lee app but they are out there (and it’s more fun to build stuff for them).

I’m not sure what kind of design they’ll come up with, but one of the criteria was modular. My take on that if you did not want the brass prep part of the system, just don’t include it….

It wasn’t mentioned, but the sorting, tumbling and perhaps drying is part of my regime which if automated, and I could afford, I’d buy.

The modular part would make it an interesting problem to solve.

I have dabbled with those other problems myself. I originally made this sorter with a very large rotary collator I made but I loaned it out to a friend that used it to start a brass business and when it came back he had added the vibratory collator that is much better with dirt, debris and cigarette butts. Certainly wouldn’t want that part on a press.



Of course that’s only sorted by diameter.

This was built for something completely different but does show an easy way to sort by length.



I didn’t get any further with this one but it sorts them by weight.



I am in the process of building an optical sorting machine that will sort by headstamp. This guy knows more about that, than I do right now.



and he’s sharing it for free.
https://github.com/sjseth/AI-Case-Sorter
 
This is an excellent example of April 1 thread. Knowledgeable people jump in, display educated examples of possible solutions and personal opinions all the while the original poster has disappeared. This is academia at its finest, Reloading R686, Master's Thesis. Same interesting concept as a Fusion Reactor for electrical power generation -- just the simple problem of how to contain a bit of the Sun on earth, shades of 1977 / 78 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
 
Process, mechanical, and industrial engineering programs all around the country will accept firearms or munitions related projects. One of the projects I worked on as a grad student was biodegradable bullets for near-360 degree shoot-houses as training ammo for military and law enforcement. The university had patents for the relevant polymer class, and I had an aptitude for the project opportunity, and a nearby military installation which sponsored the exploration, so I got paid to make ammo and work up loads to operate M9’s and Glock 19’s, as well as M4’s (and the University was paid handsomely as well). I had better lab facilities off-campus at my OTHER job, so I did most of my test firing there, but I extruded polymer bullets in the milling science building of a D1 University.

I also shot an indoor smallbore 3/4 position league every Thursday night in a range under the Military Science building, and would sling my gear on my bicycle to ride across campus with my rifle. There were racks of Rimfire training rifles in the back room of the range at all times, which were used during the summer for 4H smallbore postal matches… I had my English Literature, Composition, and Written Communication for Engineers classes in that building, second floor…


That's nice. How many years ago was that? In today's anti gun culture how many of those classes are going on?
With so many many engineering projects, reloading and bullet chemistry are still available classes?

We used to have gun racks(with loaded rifles) in our trucks in High School, Times have changed.
 
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