Handloading Problems

[GBDP]

Hi guys,

I am currently working on a handloading design project at university and would greatly appreciate your input into it.

Are there any big, common problems you often encounter when Reloading/Handloading and using current presses, annealers etc.?

As a team we are designing a modular system that hopes to incorporate a press, annealer, neck turner and trimmer. So if there's any areas of these products and process that you find difficult feel free to rant here as it will be very useful for us.

Thanks

 

[Varminterror]

Price and availability are the biggest limitations for broad adoption of reloading equipment. Whatever you design, HEAVILY focus on economic engineering.

 

[Starter52]

A combination resizer and trimmer would be great for rifle cartridges.

 

[Mk-211]

How big of a machine are we talking about?

I can't imagine how you would go from:

A) depriming/sizing
B) annealing (possibly by induction as flame and powder...)
C) trim/neck turning (latter as an option)
D) prime
E) powder
F) seat/crimp

I'm seeing a machine the size of a modern CNC machine. As the addition of an annealing aspect (possible option) would require the brass to be placed in each machine either manually or automatically (more machinery).

Dillon Mark 7



https://www.ampannealing.com/mark-2-annealer/

Induction type, there are others.

Ken Light, uses a torch.



http://www.camdexloader.com/2300LargeRifle.aspx

Then you have stuff like this. Price/market you're trying to reach?

 

[AJC1]

How big of a machine are we talking about?

I can't imagine how you would go from:

A) depriming/sizing
B) annealing (possibly by induction as flame and powder...)
C) trim/neck turning (latter as an option)
D) prime
E) powder
F) seat/crimp

I'm seeing a machine the size of a modern CNC machine. As the addition of an annealing aspect (possible option) would require the brass to be placed in each machine either manually or automatically (more machinery).

Dillon Mark 7

View attachment 1134389

https://www.ampannealing.com/mark-2-annealer/

Induction type, there are others.

Ken Light, uses a torch.

View attachment 1134390

http://www.camdexloader.com/2300LargeRifle.aspx

Then you have stuff like this. Price/market you're trying to reach?

They are up to ten stations now. Basically a cnc machine.

 

[Nature Boy]

A combination resizer and trimmer would be great for rifle cartridges.

Dillon RT1500

https://www.dillonprecision.com/62164

 

[kalielkslayer]

Price is always a consideration.

I’ve bought “all the tools” to make quality ammunition, I have the tools to make bulk ammunition quickly.

I know what the industry limitations are.

Creating a new mouse trap, or “1 size fits all” isn’t gonna be cheap and will replicate many of the things we already have.

But what a fun project

 

[Ru4real]

Are there any big, common problems you often encounter when Reloading/Handloading and using current presses, annealers etc.?
Thanks

Welcome! Sounds like a fun design project. Regarding presses, etc., the actual processes putting components together to make a live round, have a few automated solutions out there as other members have posted. Good YouTube vids are also out there.

I’d focus on spent casing recovery and cleaning. An automated system, without human interaction, that completes all these steps:
1. Remove crimp, de-prime, resize rifle brass bumping shoulder back 0.002”
2. Trim rifle and pistol brass to length
3. Tumble the brass clean and optically verify each case primer pocket and flash hole is unobstructed
4. Flare or bell mouth pistol cases
5. Prime the case

This processed and primed brass is valuable to us, and not always available. We’d buy it as such. Or, it could be sold to commercial suppliers.

 

[lordpaxman]

As a team we are designing a modular system that hopes to incorporate a press, annealer, neck turner and trimmer. So if there's any areas of these products and process that you find difficult feel free to rant here as it will be very useful for us.

Do any on your team have any experience reloading? What’s your intended market and price point? The amount of automation and instrumentation can vary greatly.

 

[jmorris]

As a team we are designing a modular system that hopes to incorporate a press, annealer, neck turner and trimmer. So if there's any areas of these products and process that you find difficult feel free to rant here as it will be very useful for us.

A way to force people to read the instructions would probably be helpful to many.

Speeding up processes without adding any defects would be my goal. Reduce the time it takes to load quality ammunition or lower costs.

The stuff you are coming up with there would have to be pretty ground breaking for me to have interest, as there are already products out there.

Make, even a rudimentary machine, that works, that would “reload” a primer and I would imagine the kids would have their first job after Graduation when they are done…maybe even cover their retirement.

 

[rfwobbly]

As one who has completed several of those projects on my way through higher education I can only say "good luck and best wishes" on your design project.

The teacher proabably knows very little about reloading or volume shooting. So the real questions for the project team to demonstrate are....
1) Can the team work together cohesively with each person doing his/her part?
2) Is the proposed solution reasonable? That is, do actions happen in a reasonable sequence?
3) Is the proposed solution well written and fully documented, with: a binder, a cover page, a table of contents, illustrations, footnotes, a glossary, an index, an appendix with vendor brochures, etc.

Of these #3 is proabably the most important. Pick the best writer on your team. Their sole job should be to document, because often times 98% of your grade is based on what your team submits to the professor. The professor could care less about miles traveled, phone calls made, time spent at the library, internal team issues, sickness, etc. As in the real world... bosses only care about hard results being submitted on time.
.​

 

[jmorris]

The teacher proabably knows very little about reloading or volume shooting.

That would be a lot better than one that’s anti 2A. Might even be better if they didn’t know what’s out there you could copy. Certainly better than one that thinks you shouldn’t be able to even own a gun…

 

[GaryL]

The teacher proabably knows very little about reloading or volume shooting. So the real questions for the project team to demonstrate are....
1) Can the team work together cohesively with each person doing his/her part?
2) Is the proposed solution reasonable? That is, do actions happen in a reasonable sequence?
3) Is the proposed solution well written and fully documented, with: a binder, a cover page, a table of contents, illustrations, footnotes, a glossary, an index, an appendix with vendor brochures, etc.

Of these #3 is proabably the most important. Pick the best writer on your team. Their sole job should be to document, because often times 98% of your grade is based on what your team submits to the professor. The professor could care less about miles traveled, phone calls made, time spent at the library, internal team issues, sickness, etc. As in the real world... bosses only care about hard results being submitted on time.
.​

There's a lot of wisdom here.

People who can do, end up doing a lot of doing. People who can take others "doing" and present it and put on a good show, usually get the exposure and promotions.

 

[jmorris]

I have an easy one for you.

Take this concept and have it manufactured in China, so you can sell if for $49.99, you’ll sell a bunch of them.



You need to make it work for lots of different rounds so it can be a stand alone decapping machine as well.

While there are a number of us that like everything to be done at once, all processes combined, many of us also like to have the ability to one step them too, for different wants and needs.

 

[Seedy Character]

Build a BASIC press that is MODULAR and inexpensive (comparably priced with existing single stage presses)

Add on systems, to upgrade to turret and full automatic press, tool heads up to 10 - 12 spaces for dies or components.

Start with something like a Rock Chucker and modify or add-on. KEEP IT SIMPLE!

Being able to start out with a Dillon 450 and add a few $$ to make it a 550, then 650, and over a time, end up with a 1050, not 3, 4, 5 seperate presses. Quick change tool head, new caliber, flip switch, make ammo.

DREAM BIG!

 

[Rule3]

a handloading design project at university

?? Gee what "University" would have that? Even back when I was at school and things more not as restricted we had no reloading 101.

 

[CQB45ACP]

?? Gee what "University" would have that? Even back when I was at school and things more not as restricted we had no reloading 101.

Yeah back in ‘70 we had a rifle and pistol club (still exists) but I don’t recall ever hearing about reloading if it was a thing but it certainly wouldn’t have been in an academic context.

 

[Charlie98]

FedEx came about from a college thesis... this may very well be the same thing. There are a lot of aspects to automation, no matter the application... and would be a reasonable effort.

My opinion... I would prefer separate tools or appliances for each basic process... that is, a stand-alone annealer, a stand-alone trimmer, etc, and then the assembly press. Not all reloading cycles require an 'everything, each time' approach. Someone above mentioned a 'modular' approach... I think that's pretty good advise. Understand, like that photo of the Dillon press above, the more functions you add, the bigger the footprint of the appliance will be. If you are looking at a commercial vendor, that's fine, but not everyone has room for something with a 3'x4'ish footprint.

I also wonder about the wisdom of an annealing process (flame and heat...) included within the reloading process (powder and primers.)

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Well, I guess I might as well step up for a flaming - been avoiding it but I’m seeing some ideas almost as “out there” - I’d like to see a portable, lightweight, small format press designed to work with the Lee Loaders. Take the Whack out of the Whack-A-Mole. I have seen some bench mounted hand arbor presses that can be adapted but not something actually designed for the job. Might be handy.

 

[PapaG]

Trimming and annealing would be the toughest stages to include in a modular or "cell" type system. I was invloved in many shop setups from traditional line ops to cell manufacturing operations and most, if not all, had to have "cutouts" included for certain operations. Annealing is not required on the majority of routine reloading operations.

 

[nofendertom]

So, you want somebody to do your homework ?

 

[guzzi]

Design and program enough robotic arms so that you can use any off the shelf equipment, and have the robots make it happen.

 

[mkl]

I would consider making annealing an optional part of your process since I would bet not more than 10 percent of reloaders anneal. Make it an optional module that can be added if desired and not an integral part of your basic machine.

 

[45 long]

I think incorporating annealing into your process would slow it down to a snail pace.

 

[Kaldor]

I think incorporating annealing into your process would slow it down to a snail pace.

An induction annealer takes just moments to fully anneal a case neck and shoulders and would be the best option for a project like this. Its also arguably more accurate than a flame annealer. The big issue is getting it onto a tool head.