Hard to Find Powders

[Skeptic13]

I reload a lot of my best rifle rounds using Varget. I have been trying to find Varget in Colorado for the past three months with little to no success. Every time I ask at a store if they have any I always get the same story. Haven't had that in months along with one of several reasons that there is no supply. There is a Bass Pro Shop in Colorado Springs that I will check there online inventory occasionally in hopes they received some but never have any luck. I had noticed in the past that they say that if I order online they will ship to the store for free with no hazmat fee.

On January the 20th I decided to give it a shot and ordered 2 lbs online. On February 10 they sent me a notice that my order was in the store. Twenty days is not fast and Bass Pro Shops are by far not the cheapest. But it is a lot faster than waiting for one of my local stores to get some and me just happening to be there before they sell it all. The price was what I normally pay buying instore. If you have a Bass Pro near you and are having trouble finding your favorite powder maybe this will help.

 

[Allen One1]

I'm seeing the same issue with other powders as well. I have enough powder to last me the next 3-4 months, if the powder I'm using isn't available by then I have made up my mind to make a switch to a different powder. I'm not going to play the powder search game like we did a few years ago.

 

[stillquietvoice]

I'm not going to play the powder search game like we did a few years ago.

That is why I've already started doing load work ups with different powders.

 

[Slamfire]

That's why I believe in hoarding. Buy enough to last ten years. Before I knew powder had a lifetime, I bought "lifetime" supplies. Well it turns out, I have tossed kegs of 20 year old powders.








They did not provide a manufacturing date for the defective IMR 4007, but it could not be older than 2007 when the powder was introduced.



However, if you have enough fingers to count, you can subtract the years these lots were made from 2019 and come with how many years it took these lots to autocombust.







Out of the hundreds of thousands of readers who saw these warnings, how many still believe that gun powders last forever?. I would say, about 99.9999% percent.

 

[Texas10mm]

That's why I believe in hoarding. Buy enough to last ten years. Before I knew powder had a lifetime, I bought "lifetime" supplies. Well it turns out, I have tossed kegs of 20 year old powders.


View attachment 892542

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View attachment 892544

They did not provide a manufacturing date for the defective IMR 4007, but it could not be older than 2007 when the powder was introduced.

View attachment 892545

However, if you have enough fingers to count, you can subtract the years these lots were made from 2019 and come with how many years it took these lots to autocombust.

View attachment 892546



View attachment 892547

Out of the hundreds of thousands of readers who saw these warnings, how many still believe that gun powders last forever?. I would say, about 99.9999% percent.

Many of us are using powders well over 20 years old to load with. My buddy is working his way through a 12 lb metal can of Bullseye that he bought in the '70's.

 

[George P]

On another forum, someone posted a reply from Hodgdon saying their suppliers were having trouble filling orders and that military ammo supplies were using Hodgdon propellants. IF this is actually true, then don't expect anything to be on the shelves anytime soon.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/02/05/hodgdon-powder-2020/

 

[Walkalong]

Midsouth Shooters has free hazmat today..........

 

[Walkalong]

Many of us are using powders well over 20 years old to load with. My buddy is working his way through a 12 lb metal can of Bullseye that he bought in the '70's.

As am I, but I have also had an 8 pound jug of N-130 go bad at around the ten year mark. Kind of makes you think.

 

[Slamfire]

Many of us are using powders well over 20 years old to load with. My buddy is working his way through a 12 lb metal can of Bullseye that he bought in the '70's.

So am I. Nothing I write or post will make a difference to most readers, as they are primarily driven by their base desires, biases, and instincts. And in this instance, people firmly believe that they are immortal, they are going to live forever, and therefore their ammunition stash has to last forever. Any information that neither they, or their ammunition, are immortal is discarded because, people only believe what they want to believe. At least that is my theory about why the shooting community acts the way it does.

Sure, I am making my way though old gunpowder, stuff that I bought and have not used up. But when I purchased the stuff, I did not know that gunpowder aged. In fact, everything in the popular press indicated otherwise, it was widely promoted that gunpowder lasted forever, and if it failed, it failed benignly. There was absolutely nothing out there about the stuff auto combusting with age. Not that anyone would have noticed any information contrary. Such information would have been ignored because it would have conflicted with their belief system. Just like the warnings about powder going in the warnings I copied and posted. Did not make the slightest difference did it?

However, with old gunpowder, I am having all sorts of problems with ammunition 20 years or older



and it is due to gunpowder deterioration. Such as what has happened here to other people.







My advice, is not to pay lots of money hoarding gunpowder that will, and it will, go bad. Just when it will go bad is impossible to determine, which is why first world Militaries pay people to inspect and test their stockpiles. Second and third world militaries do exactly as most US shooters do, they wait till the stuff turns bad and burns the house down. Or the ammunition depot.

Ammunition companies don't warrant their ammunition past ten years. There are reasons for this, not that the shooting community knows or wants to know. I think it is a good practice to shoot everything up before it it 20 years. And that is my advice to others: shoot it up, don't sit on it.

 

[George P]

So am I. Nothing I write or post will make a difference to most readers, as they are primarily driven by their base desires, biases, and instincts. And in this instance, people firmly believe that they are immortal, they are going to live forever, and therefore their ammunition stash has to last forever. Any information that neither they, or their ammunition, are immortal is discarded because, people only believe what they want to believe. At least that is my theory about why the shooting community acts the way it does.

Sure, I am making my way though old gunpowder, stuff that I bought and have not used up. But when I purchased the stuff, I did not know that gunpowder aged. In fact, everything in the popular press indicated otherwise, it was widely promoted that gunpowder lasted forever, and if it failed, it failed benignly. There was absolutely nothing out there about the stuff auto combusting with age. Not that anyone would have noticed any information contrary. Such information would have been ignored because it would have conflicted with their belief system. Just like the warnings about powder going in the warnings I copied and posted. Did not make the slightest difference did it?

However, with old gunpowder, I am having all sorts of problems with ammunition 20 years or older

View attachment 892744

and it is due to gunpowder deterioration. Such as what has happened here to other people.

View attachment 892745

View attachment 892746

View attachment 892747

My advice, is not to pay lots of money hoarding gunpowder that will, and it will, go bad. Just when it will go bad is impossible to determine, which is why first world Militaries pay people to inspect and test their stockpiles. Second and third world militaries do exactly as most US shooters do, they wait till the stuff turns bad and burns the house down. Or the ammunition depot.

Ammunition companies don't warrant their ammunition past ten years. There are reasons for this, not that the shooting community knows or wants to know. I think it is a good practice to shoot everything up before it it 20 years. And that is my advice to others: shoot it up, don't sit on it.

And yet I took both my 7mag and 7-08 to shoot for the first time in 17 years....the 7-08 ammo was from the middle late 90s and the 7mag ammo was loaded in 1989. Both loads shot 3 shot groups under 1" @ 100 yards off a bench..............I still have powders from back when I shot more powder and when I recently checked them, they were still fine.

 

[Slamfire]

And yet I took both my 7mag and 7-08 to shoot for the first time in 17 years....the 7-08 ammo was from the middle late 90s and the 7mag ammo was loaded in 1989. Both loads shot 3 shot groups under 1" @ 100 yards off a bench..............I still have powders from back when I shot more powder and when I recently checked them, they were still fine.

The stuff will be good, until it is not. Give it time.

Or, to hurry things up, store your powder in the attic during the summer. Heat accelerates the aging of gunpowder.

 

[Prowler53]

Been at Cabela's here in PA the last 3 weekends. First two weekends the Powder shelves were about empty. This past weekend they had a good bit of Hodgdon powder stocked as well as IMR. Just about all other powders were still missing. Also CCI small pistol primers as well as magnum primers have been out of stock. Shelves have been pretty empty as far as reloading supplies. I was lucky enough to grab some 9mm berry's bullets before they were all gone.

 

[George P]

The stuff will be good, until it is not. Give it time.

Or, to hurry things up, store your powder in the attic during the summer. Heat accelerates the aging of gunpowder.

I store reloading components under heat and air

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Over the past few shortage I have learned to develop loads with at least 2 additional powders besides my favorite. In the long run that is a good plan IMO.

 

[Slamfire]

I store reloading components under heat and air

Good for you.

 

[Orcon]

I reload a lot of my best rifle rounds using Varget. I have been trying to find Varget in Colorado for the past three months with little to no success. Every time I ask at a store if they have any I always get the same story. Haven't had that in months along with one of several reasons that there is no supply. There is a Bass Pro Shop in Colorado Springs that I will check there online inventory occasionally in hopes they received some but never have any luck. I had noticed in the past that they say that if I order online they will ship to the store for free with no hazmat fee.

On January the 20th I decided to give it a shot and ordered 2 lbs online. On February 10 they sent me a notice that my order was in the store. Twenty days is not fast and Bass Pro Shops are by far not the cheapest. But it is a lot faster than waiting for one of my local stores to get some and me just happening to be there before they sell it all. The price was what I normally pay buying instore. If you have a Bass Pro near you and are having trouble finding your favorite powder maybe this will help.

I buy Varget 16 pounds at a time when I find it, I know not everybody can do that but I like to have it on hand considering I use it in 3 or more rifles. I also buy IMR 4320 when I see it, it's a dang good stand-in for when Varget disappears. I know it's a bit of a drive for you but you should give a call to the folks at Timberline Sporting Goods in Rifle, they usually have an impressive stock of powders.

 

[tmd16556]

The stuff will be good, until it is not. Give it time.

That’s the tricky part. It could last 100 years or be bad in 10.

 

[Slamfire]

That’s the tricky part. It could last 100 years or be bad in 10.

One hundred years is impossibly long. This is what the Army put out for deterioration versus time

Army Not Producing Enough Ammunition

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2003/May/Pages/Army_Not3866.aspx


Regardless of what the Army decides to do with its industrial base, the fundamental issue does not change: the Army needs to produce more war reserve ammunition, Naughton said. Time is running out, he said. “Most of the ammunition in the stockpile today was built 20 years ago during the Cold War buildup.” Most rounds are designed to have a shelf life of 20 years. “We are outside the envelope of the shelf life on 40 percent or more of our existing ammunition. The rest is rapidly approaching the end of its shelf life.”

Ammunition does not “go bad” overnight, after it reaches a certain age, but “once it’s over 20 years old, the reliability rapidly degrades,” said Naughton. Within a few years, it will become increasingly difficult to shoot it. “You can predict that you’ll lose 7-8 percent of the ammo after the 20-year mark.”*

To replace the obsolete rounds, the Army would have to produce 100,000 tons of war reserve ammunition a year for the next seven years. Past that point, it would need 50,000 tons to 60,000 tons a year to sustain the stockpile. That represents about “half the level of the Cold War buildup,” he said.

* I think what is meant, 7-8 percent per year after 20 years.

 

[Charlie98]

Aside from manufacturing defects, I consider long-term ammunition and component storage a 'case by case' proposition. I've pulled 30- and 40-year old (.348WCF) ammo... some had internal corrosion, some didn't. Since I bought it used... who knows how it was stored in it's life? I've also seen surplus military ammos, which typically gets turned over every 20 years or so... and is typically manufactured and prepared for long-term storage... be either excellent (7.62mm Belgian FNB from 1983) or complete crap (7.62mm PMC from 1983.) So who knows?

As far as powder... I had a cardboard keg of Unique that was going on 20 years old when I used it up. It was not stored well (during my 'time of transition' some years ago...) but it was fine. I also bought 32# of IMR4895 about 12 years ago... that has been stored inside perfectly all it's life... and I am starting to question it's longevity. I have about 10# left... but I am seeing some irregularities with it.

I only buy 4# or 8# bottles of powder now... not only does it make economic sense, and keeps me from having to hunt for powder like I did during the Dark Ages, but eliminates lot-to-lot variation work ups, generally. I also understand I may get a bad apple (recall) or an apple that goes rotten... but it's all part of the game. The key is observation...

 

[Jack B.]

There are times when I can't find some powers. Then there are other times that those same powders are every place I look. Comes and goes. That's why reloading can be so much fun. There are times when you must experiment with something new and find out it was better all along!

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

We have no problem here in Ohio buying anything. Come-on down and stock-up!

 

[Charlie98]

We have no problem here in Ohio buying anything. Come-on down and stock-up!

That was not always the case... as a former Columbus-ite, and Medina-ite myself.

 

[jmr40]

I haven't been looking for powder, I have enough on hand for at least 2-3 years. But was in a local gunshop earlier in the week and they had at least a dozen bottles of both H4350 and Varget. Just to be safe I picked up a bottle of each. The price on the Varget was the usual,but H4350 was more than I expected. Not sure why it would be more.

At any rate it appears that there have been shipments of these 2 recently.

 

[orpington]

I was under the impression that smokeless powder has an infinite lifespan, or at least as long as one's lifetime, or nearly so. I know that I was firing WWII surplus powder in rounds loaded in the 1990's with no problem.

I have 2 canisters each of this 2400 and Bullseye for a sum total of 4 lbs. I intend to use it up as fast as possible, but this may take awhile. Any idea when these might date from? I'm guessing late '70's or early '80's? I live in a subdivision with attached garages where even sheds aren't allowed. Less than ideal. In the meantime how would you store these? In a metal ammo box in the basement far from everything else?

 

[Random 8]

Varget is a fine powder, but I gave up on it for this reason. I have shifted most of my reloading over to powders manufactured on the North American Continent. I found the St Marks (Win, Hodgedon spherical) and General Dynamics powders to hold up much better in the last shortage than any of the foreign made powders that have to ship overseas and then go through customs before distribution once the domestic stock is sold.

I believe the entire IMR line including the new "enduron" series are made in NA, as well as many of the Aliant flake type powders. The R series is mostly Swedish or RUAG I believe, and also disappeared quickly with inflated demand. Not to feed the beast, but think we are already seeing pre-election hoarding drying up domestic supplies.