Heinlein and Librarians

[Dryft]

It probably goes without saying, but The Forever War, by Joe Haldeman, has always been the book most, well, linked, to Starship Troopers and RAH. If you haven't read it, I'd highly suggest it - get one of the new editions of it, and there's a great interview with Haldeman, who talks about RAH's influence on his writing.

To stay a little more on topic, school libraries have, in some areas, a ridiculous amount of oversight - which is why so many of them these days feel safer purchasing multiple copies of books about effeminate vampires and the girls who love them, and avoiding entire sections of the ol' card catalog.

 

[Avenger]

It's odd that these supposed "library associations" never breathed a word against "Rocket Ship Galileo"...the kids in that one not only had guns, but actually shot and KILLED someone with them, then bombed a moon base killing hundreds, then participated in the torture of a prisoner...
Can't even imagine those plot points being allowed in a kids book today, even if the baddies were Nazis who attacked first...hell, I'd find it a little surprising if an editor allowed the scene of the kids racing their jalopy across the desert at 100mph to get into a book today.

 

[Zak Smith]

While we're googling/wikiing things, put "Mary Sue" in the list. Application left as an exercise for the reader.

BTW, I read everything RAH wrote when I was a teenager. And Rand's work, and a dozen other Sci Fi authors. He got sort-of rambley and repetitive later on, but his books have probably done more to help the libertarian and pro-gun mindset than any political party ever has.

 

[HOOfan_1]

I've always loved Orson Scott Card's books, but he is basically the anti-libertarian.

I don't know that he is radically anti-gun. But I have read he is anti-NRA and pro gun control.

Then you have Frank Herbert, I don't know that he ever talked about gun control, but in his books, each family had its own army and own store of nuclear weapons to protect themselves against each other and the Emperor. Of course his main character becomes the subject of a Theocratic/Oligarchical cult which is more oppressive than the Empire...

 

[mainmech48]

"They're just stories, intended to entertain and written to buy groceries." Robert A. Heinlein

'Nuff said.

 

[CZguy]

"They're just stories, intended to entertain and written to buy groceries." Robert A. Heinlein

'Nuff said.

I like that quote. But, I've noticed that whenever someone says "Nuff said".
........it usually time to brace yourself for the onslaught.

 

[Devonai]

My royalties pay for my Netflix subscription.

 

[Leanwolf]

JOE DEMKO - "Off the top of my head, Gene Wolfe and Harlan Ellison are both vastly superior authors ..."

Harlan Ellison is extremely anti-guns owned by the "worker peasant rabble," although not anti-guns for himself. He hates the Second Amendment, the NRA, conservatives-in-general, and is rabidly pro-government gun confiscation, again, from the "worker peasant rabble." Simply put, Ellison is your very typical, far left, "progressive" Hollywood hypocrite.

I've been acquainted with Ellison for many years. Once several years ago, I and my girl friend were in his home having dinner with him and some other guests, and he was showing me some of his firearms. (A couple of nice ones, too.) He later wrote many anti-gun articles in his weekly column for The L.A. Weekly, lambasting those I mentioned above, making it very clear how incredibly stupid, moronic, were the knuckle dragging gunowners who actually supported the Constitution of the United States, i.e., the Second Amendment.

I suppose this goes to illustrate that I'm not a Harlan Ellison fan.

L.W.

 

[SwampWolf]

In my estimation, when judging a man's worth there's nothing much worse than being a hypocrite. From what has been said, Mr. Ellison is one.

 

[RimfireChris]

Just read "The pragmatics of patriotism" Very powerful, thanks for the link.

 

[Joe Demko]

I've been acquainted with Ellison for many years. Once several years ago, I and my girl friend were in his home having dinner with him and some other guests,

Hypocritical can also be something like accepting the man's hospitality, presenting yourself on friendly enough terms that he felt comfortable showing you his guns, and then going elsewhere to talk smack on him.
I don't screen the authors I read for ideological purity. I fancy myself intelligent enough not to be turned into a sheep-raping commie just because I read something by a leftist author. I have no time, outside of Batman movies, for people being two-faced. Good day to you.

 

[Leanwolf]

JOE DEMKO - "Hypocritical can also be something like accepting the man's hospitality, presenting yourself on friendly enough terms that he felt comfortable showing you his guns, and then going elsewhere to talk smack on him."

I was there in Ellison's home before I knew what were his "politics." Although we later crossed paths a number of times in Los Angeles, I did not "break bread" with him again.

You might note I said I am "acquainted" with him: I did not say he and I were friends. Nor did I say he is not a talented writer. I noted his far left politics and raving hypocrisy, which is very symptomatic of many of the Hollywoodites I have known for many years.

Your attempt at sanctimonious sarcasm is rather juvenile, at best. As the old saying goes, however, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again." I'll be happy to accommodate you, if you wish.

And a very good day to you, sir.

L.W.

 

[kayak-man]

Its been a very long time since I've read any good science fiction, especially the classics.

For some reason, I have never heard of Heinlein, probably because I was too busy reading everything by Asimov and Buroughs I could get my hand. I will definately be checking out some of his work, it sounds pretty good.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

 

[LoneStranger]

I am not to sure but I believe first read RAH in the third grade, 1957 thereabouts, and he made such an impression on me that in my limited way I spent a lot of time searching out his books since.

He made me more aware of the value of weapons for a civilized society than I would have known otherwise.

What I found interesting was trying to research various elements that he spoke of in his books/stories and finding out how much reality was there. In fact I had communications with Dr. Samuel Renshaw in regards to training your mind to work beyound normal(?) capacity. Point: Your mind is your most deadly weapon!

That his knowledge of history and technology was such that he could see that as the world turns and changes so much of it will stay the same and in place.

H. Beam Piper Rocks!!

 

[nalioth]

Point: Your mind is your most deadly weapon!

Sadly, the vast majority are not aware of this.

 

[mustang_steve]

You can exepect more of this from the "for the children!" crowd.

The latest one to make my blood boil was to remove racial slurs from Huckleberry Finn. If anything, literature is a snapshot of the time in which it was written and the typical ideals of the era. Denial of History is not kind to the children as they'll have learned incorrect facts, it's more along the lines of intellectual rape, as now there's "two" versions of any work going about, the incorrect one being the "scholastically accepted" one.

That's completely unacceptable. If they want, make the book high school material...or better yet, use the book for an example of how morality changes as time goes on.

Gun references and various other details should not be fforced out of a book either. This is a gun-bearing nation and any pre-emptive cencorship should be outed and the people behind it made to explain why they enforced this at a national level. Hopefully having to explain themselves for this may be enough to stop future incidents of it.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Its been a very long time since I've read any good science fiction, especially the classics.

For some reason, I have never heard of Heinlein, probably because I was too busy reading everything by Asimov and Buroughs I could get my hand. I will definately be checking out some of his work, it sounds pretty good.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

How about Dan Simmons, Ursula K. Leguin, Orson Scott Card, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. Heck I even liked the Dune books written by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson.

 

[Jim Watson]

Writing styles are kind of like guns.
If it goes "Bang!" somebody will enjoy shooting it. If it is published, somebody will enjoy reading it. Others won't care to shoot or read a particular product.

I have read all of Heinlein that I know of, although some of his non SF stuff is not available that I know of. I have never heard of the Puddin' stories being reprinted.
Also 'Variable Star,' the book written by Spider Robinson based on Heinlein's preparatory notes. It isn't really Heinlein, but it isn't bad. He has a deal for more in the same vein that I will read when he gets them out.

H. Beam Piper was the most firearms knowledgeable fiction writer I know of. Space Vikings were shooting up isolated ex-Federation worlds with 10mm pistols and SMGs before Dixon ever met Dornaus. But the Akor-Neb sidearm, a pistol firing a 10 grain projectile at 10,000 fps for instant kills by hydrostatic shock is definitely fiction.

For some reason, I have never heard of Heinlein, probably because I was too busy reading everything by Asimov and Buroughs

Your education has been sadly neglected, Chris. Track him down, you will be rewarded. I always said that Heinlein covered about every science fiction plot line there was, from alien invasion to sword and sorcery.

 

[Nushif]

If anything, literature is a snapshot of the time in which it was written and the typical ideals of the era.

This. You'll find most higher education folks agree with you on this but similar to the field of Sociology, there are a lot of people in Sociology, lower age teaching snd other fields who really should have gone into social work.
It's not so much the fault of the system they're in, but rather thefault of the system that allowed them to get there.
Don't, for example, blame the school that hired some person with a teaching degree. Blame the nation that has muddled the waters in degrees to the point that one *has* to become a social worker before one can become a Sociologist, or the nation that allowed a teaching degree to become synonimous with an agenda degree.
I don't think schools like being the slanted hotbed they are. I don't think for instance the Anthropology filed and Sociology field likes having all these social worker types. But let's face it. Somewhere along the road someone decided school need to make money, instead of educate. And if a social worker wants to have an education, anthropology or sociology degree an they're willing to pay for it ... how can the average school institution say no?

 

[SwampWolf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayak-man
Its been a very long time since I've read any good science fiction, especially the classics.

For some reason, I have never heard of Heinlein, probably because I was too busy reading everything by Asimov and Buroughs I could get my hand. I will definately be checking out some of his work, it sounds pretty good.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

How about Dan Simmons, Ursula K. Leguin, Orson Scott Card, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. Heck I even liked the Dune books written by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson.

My personal favorite sci-fi writer is H.G.Wells-he has no peer in my reckoning. I've always enjoyed reading Arthur C. Clarke too. As mentioned earlier (and with the help of bigfatdave to jog my memory), Clarke's novel Childhood's End is a must read for science fiction aficionados.

 

[gaijin6423]

I am a lifelong fan of science fiction as a genre, and particularly military science fiction. Note, it is definitely not the only genre of book I regularly read, but it is one of my favorites.

I don't know the man's politics, but I'm surprised that no one mentioned "Armor" by John Steakley so far. One could argue that anyone who has seen military service, endured traumatic events, etc has at least a bit of Steakley's "engine" in them.

And regardless of the author's politics, "Ender's Game" is one of my absolute all-time favorites.

Currently active sci-fi writers that I read: Orson Scott Card, Alistair Reynolds, John Scalzi, Dan Simmons, just to name a few.

 

[Devonai]

For some reason, I have never heard of Heinlein...

"What, do you live under a rock?" - Geico Spokesman

 

[Avenger]

Also 'Variable Star,' the book written by Spider Robinson based on Heinlein's preparatory notes. It isn't really Heinlein, but it isn't bad. He has a deal for more in the same vein that I will read when he gets them out.

I have to wonder just how extensive Heinlein's notes were...I'd say I was very familiar with the style of both authors, given that I've voraciously sought for every word either of them has written, and 'Variable Star' is a Spider Robinson book through and through...perhaps a VERY rough core of Heinlein in there, but if Heinlein's name wasn't on the cover, I'd have no trouble believing it was all original work by Spider.

Which I don't mind, BTW...I just wish he'd resume writing characters who AREN'T Jake Stonebender or "third-person Spider"...