Help me choose a weapon for my handicapped father in law.

[jon_in_wv]

These weekend I visited my father-in-law and he expressed to me his desire to get a pistol for defense. He has a degenerative disease that has severely limited his mobility and has left him with very little strength in this hands. I had him try the trigger on my M&P and he could pull the trigger but he could not budge the slide. He trigger finger is also not strong enough to pull the trigger in double action mode on 99% of handguns. So, I need a pistol of a certain criteria for him........

1. light recoil but not a 22lr. he doesn't want a 22.
2. single action trigger.
3. has a light enough slide or hammer to allow him to pull the slide back or cock the hammer.

I have thought of two possibilities. One is something like a Ruger single six in 22 mag. The weapon and recoil would be reasonably light and the hammer spring is hopefully something he could manage. The second though is the new Keltec PMR-30. It holds a lot more rounds, has a single action trigger, and though I haven't handled one I would assume the slide is relatively easy to pull back.

My first though was a single action Berretta similar to the Cheetah with the tip up barrel. Do you guys know if Beretta even made a 32 or 380 with a tip up barrel and single action?

 

[rcmodel]

Beretta 86 .380:
http://www.berettaweb.com/Beretta 80/Beretta 86.htm

The Kel-Tec PMR-30 is still an unknown, as none have been released for sale yet.

A Single-Six .22 WMR is a good possibility, but if he can cock a Single-Six, he could cock any other good SA/DA revolver and shoot it SA, like a S&W K or L frame, or Ruger SP101 or GP100 in .38 Spl/.357.

The speed of reloading a swing-out cylinder SA/DA like a S&W or Ruger is light years ahead of a SA like the Ruger Single-Six.

And IMO, they are a safer design then a Single-Action or auto pistol for non-shooters who don't or won't practice on a regular basis.

They are either loaded, or not. And it's simple to tell by just opening the cylinder and looking.

rc

 

[KodiakBeer]

Actually, somebody is making a pistol for the handicapped and it's Medicare reimbursable!

http://www.palmpistol.com/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,461928,00.html

 

[jon_in_wv]

Beretta 86 .380:
http://www.berettaweb.com/Beretta 80/Beretta 86.htm

Double action is not a possiblity.

A Single-Six .22 WMR is a good possibility, but if he can cock a Single-Six, he could cock any other good SA/DA revolver and shoot it SA, like a S&W K or L frame, or Ruger SP101 or GP100 in .38 Spl/.357.

The strength of the hammer spring and the size and geometry of the hammer plays a large role in how easy it is to cock. One doesn't translate directly to the other by a long shot. Cocking a single six and a Smith K frame are not even close. Neither is the recoil or weight of the two weapons. If it was as simple as just picking any revolver I would have done that already.

 

[rcmodel]

O.K.
Sorry to have bothered you.

rc

 

[hammerklavier]

If this disease is only going to get worse then I suggest something where finger/grip strength will be less of an issue. Something like a pump shotgun, for instance.

If he can be sure someone will be around to load his weapon for him when needed, which probably wouldn't be that often. Then a SA/DA auto would be best because the triggers are very light in SA mode. Most lock open on the last round, so reloads from that state can be done easily, just use the slide release.

 

[jon_in_wv]

O.K.
Sorry to have bothered you.

rc

No problem. If you come up with something useful, feel free to try again.

 

[Lonestar49]

My first though was a single action Berretta similar to the Cheetah with the tip up barrel. Do you guys know if Beretta even made a 32 or 380 with a tip up barrel and single action?

...

Some of the older Cheetah models have that in 380, along with, smaller Bobcats in less powerful calibers but:

Any of these type blowback action guns could be a potential nightmare for him, as if it jammed after the first shot.. he's done

They do require lubrication after sitting for a month, or more, again, jam time, so they would require "delicate" handling for both the dis assembly, and reassembly, mode.. And only test firing from time to time to ensure they are good to go..

Pistol/revolver is the only good weapon for him IMHO, as they don't jam, per say, they don't require lubrication very often, if at all once done by you for him.

As you say, just finding him the light hammered pull-back SA mode revolver would be best for him regarding: *no maintenance, no jams, no practice needed to verify gun will work, *for the very most part, once he loads it up, it's rdy, on stand-by.


Luck,


Ls

 

[popbang]

I have some hand issues myself, and I will give you what I have done. I shoot right handed. My right hand is twisting and at times quite painfull. My left hand has little strength and alot of nerve damage.

My belief is I need to be able to shoot with either hand.

With double action revolvers I am unable to fire them with my left hand in double action mode. And further I am unable to cock the hammer for more than a couple of shots.

With semi autos I can fire right handed with the some function problems that happen frequently enough that I don't trust them. With my left hand and auto a problem. They do not function weel due to my grip. Autos I have tried various Glocks, Springfield 1911s, XDs, Kimber 1911s.

I went to a ruger single action revolver. I like big bore revolvers, so my choice for a long time has been a 45 Colt Vaquero or Blackhawk. I also have one in 357 Mag that I figure someday is what I will use.

The hammer sets high enough that I can bring it over with either hand. Compared to a double action revolver the position of my hand on single action grip gives me the ability to cock it. I have a 45 convertable, and with the ACP rounds it is easy on your hands. With style grip and barrel placement the recoil impulse does not drive back into joints.

A 4-5/8 barrel is concealable and can be used for home defense. If you used 38 specials the recoil is pretty soft.

hope this helps.

 

[Lonestar49]

...

Agreeing here with P, if, in the larger calibers, 45 is the most docile and delivers a big hole/s

Just another thought,


Ls

 

[Manco]

He trigger finger is also not strong enough to pull the trigger in double action mode on 99% of handguns.

Has he ever tried using both trigger fingers at once?

1. light recoil but not a 22lr. he doesn't want a 22.
2. single action trigger.
3. has a light enough slide or hammer to allow him to pull the slide back or cock the hammer.

Well, .22 LR can be effective (i.e. get enough penetration) if you carefully match the right load to the pistol.

But anyway, have you considered the FN Five-seveN? I've heard that its slide is easy to rack, and the recoil shouldn't be too bad (I'd probably know from personal experience by now, but I live in the wrong state for that). The USG variant has a single-action trigger system, and its trigger is as light or slightly lighter than that of the M&P.

I have thought of two possibilities. One is something like a Ruger single six in 22 mag. The weapon and recoil would be reasonably light and the hammer spring is hopefully something he could manage.

That could work, although it has some obvious disadvantages.

The second though is the new Keltec PMR-30. It holds a lot more rounds, has a single action trigger, and though I haven't handled one I would assume the slide is relatively easy to pull back.

That sounds good, too, although I'd probably trust the Five-seveN more (until the PMR-30 proves itself).

 

[jon_in_wv]

Without getting into a discussion about the effectiveness of the 22lr lets just say my Father-in-law just does not want one so that caliber is OUT. Personally, I could think of several 22lrs that would do well for him.

While the FN might be a good option is is probably out of the price range of what I will have to spend.

As to using BOTH trigger fingers, I don't think that would work for him. The effort required would probably prevent any type accuracy and I'm not even sure both would do it on some pistols. He was barely able to pull the trigger on my M&P and it has a pretty light trigger.

 

[brabham78]

The Beretta Tomcat is a .32 caliber pistol that has a tip up barrel, a safety, and a SA/DA trigger. If hammer is down, it can be manually cocked, placing it in single action mode. Then each shot after that will of course also be in single action mode. Nice looking little gun too.

 

[Pistola]

browning hi power.

 

[Jim Watson]

The Beretta 86 tip-up .380 is selective DA-SA. It can be kept cocked and locked. BUT it is not as simple to operate as the dinky .22, .25, or .32. I found it a bit fumble prone and I am a fairly experienced shooter.

I have an unpopular recommendation for the weak handed who do not want the Internet Default Firearm of a revolver.

If he has a reliable pistol with a magazine capacity of 15+ rounds that you load and leave with him, he does not have to rack the slide. No, he can't clear a malfunction or reload, but that is why you and he must test it in advance to be sure it is to be trusted. It is not like he is going to go out on a seek and destroy mission, this is for last ditch self defense. As W.W. Greener said, if by the time five or six rounds - much less 12-17 - have been fired, there are probably better things to do with the time remaining to you than hastily reloading the pistol.

Failing that, go with the Single Six .22 WRM. Better, TWO of them. A second gun is the fastest reload.

 

[papa_bear]

.38 special J frame in stainless. Very light kicking round. Heavy enough to soak up recoil. Stainless revolvers requires minimal maintenance.

 

[LawofThirds]

Yes, but a J-Frame is going to have far too hard of trigger pull for him to use effectively. 9mm or .380 is probably going to be the strongest round he'll be able to use effectively, especially considering his hand strength. A large .380 like the beretta 84 or maybe a Colt 1903 might be a good choice. Either that or a lightly sprung glock 34 so you have a much weaker recoil spring to deal with.

 

[papa_bear]

if he can back the hammer up, trigger pull will be close to 2-3 times lighter than a glock.
figure 1.5-2.lbs trigger for single action j frame and 5.3-5.5.lbs for the glock.

 

[DukeNukem]

Maybe that Rossi Ranch Hand if he can work a lever?

 

[jon_in_wv]

That assumes he can pull the hammer back. I've owned a few J-Frames and I'm not sure he could do that. I know the SAA style revovlers have huge hammers and he could use his palm to pull back the hammer. The spur and hammer on the J Frames is a lot smaller and would give a lot less leverage. While he may be able to do it I wonder if it would be easier and faster on the single actions. The J frame, especially with a three inch barrel would probably be easier to carry and conceal.

 

[Sam1911]

Sounds like his ability to defend himself at all is massively compromised. Worrying that he can't perform a quick reload or conceal the gun optimally or perform malfunction drills seems to me to be missing the much greater point that he has to be able to make the most basic control(s) WORK.

My humble opinion would be that popbang is onto the right path: a SA revolver in .38 Spc./.357 would probably be a best bet. Sure, he's only got 6 rounds, but he's got a large hammer that he can cock with a gross motor motion of his weak hand, and a fairly light, short trigger pull to fire the shot. Reloading is going to be slow, but his entire engagement sequence is going to be slow. How fast can a man with that compromised level of function really empty any gun? Chances are, if he gets of three or four shots -- PERIOD -- at an attacker, his time to engage is likely up. The attacker is either on him or has fled. The SA revolver in an effective cartridge give him the chance to actually make a few effective shots with maximum safety and minimum fine-motor-skill fiddling.

My second (maybe tied for first) choice would be exactly what Jim advised: Some striker-fired (Glock, M&P, xD) autopistol that you load and chamber for him. That would give him somewhere above 15 rounds of a more effective cartridge (9mm, .40, or .45 if he can handle the recoil) and he wouldn't have to be able to do more than pull the trigger. Again, I doubt he'd ever be able to get off more than 5-6 shots, but those would be effective.

Getting him a gimmick gun like a tip-up barrel isn't helping him much (low power and small controls) and getting him a light, small, DA revolver probably is counter-productive as well. Large size and decent weight will help him control the recoil more effectively.

 

[Fleetman]

My gf uses a S&W 360 loaded with .38 Spl. and it is much easier to cock for SA than a lot of other revolvers and has a very light SA trigger. The DA pull is not that bad either although it may be too tough for him. She also has a Beretta Tomcat but has trouble opening the tip-up barrel.

Another option may be a hammer extension similar to what you would install on a scoped lever-action....provides more leverage and more hammer "grip".

 

[Fleetman]

forgot to add....a 1911, kept cocked and locked, would be a viable option. My 1911's swipe off-safe very easily and triggers can be modified for lightness and reliability. A 25 oz Kimber UC II is very easily managed.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Agreed Sam.

For the guys recommending a 1911, ESPECIALLY a lightweight one, that isn't being very realistic. If his hands are too week to pull a DA trigger then it stands to reason his grip is going to be very week too. Its likely that recoil would be a very large issue and while a 1911's recoil is very manageable I wouldn't call it light. The #1 criteria I listed was LIGHT RECOIL. For my abilities my M&P or P220 both have light recoil. For someone with impared muscles in his hands they would be very hard to hold on to. I would suspect that light loads in an all steel 38 would be the max he could handle.

 

[Six]

I don't think there are good solutions for someone who cannot physically perform the required actions. You're going to have to compromise in some way.

My suggestions would be a smallish-caliber semi auto with a very light trigger.

Something not unlike a 9mm 1911 in officer length maybe, with a cocking handle if needed.

But I wouldn't expect him to be able to rack the slide or reload - the magazine in the gun is the one he's got.

If it jams, or he runs empty, he's out of the fight.