Help me understand 922r compliance

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jdougg92

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I have a CZ Scorpion Evo3.
Yesterday I filled out the Form 1 and mailed both it & a check to the ATF in hope before summer is over I'll have my first SBR.

My friend did a similar thing last year but he had a Bushmaster AR rifle lower, waited 4 months, got a stamp and put a 10" Cmmg upper on it.

But apparently it won't be as easy with the Scorpion? It won't be as simple as wait, get approved put on a stock and I have a SBR.

Apparently because the gun was made in the Czech Republic and imported, I'll have to do a lot more or add parts? Is any of that true? And why would that be the case.
 

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My understanding is the NFA will bypass 922R as 922R only applies to "sporting guns", of which a SBR wouldn't be.

I could be completely wrong, however.
 
US Code, title 18, Section 44, includes two unpleasant little bits of law.

Section 925(d)(3) is where the trouble starts as it says you can't import firearms from outside the country if they're particularly warlike, or "non-sporting."

Section 922(r) goes on to say you can't make a rifle out of parts if that rifle wouldn't have been importable as "non-sporting."

So if you have a semi-auto AK47, for example, it cannot be imported into the US unless it is set up to be "sporting" with limited capacity, thumb-hole stocks, etc. If you buy something like a Saiga, which is a "sporting" style of an AK, that's fine to import, but you can't go buy a bunch of Russian surplus parts to convert it back into "non-sporting" style.

IF, however, you replace enough parts on the gun with parts made here in the US of A, we can pretend it was not made overseas and thus 925 doesn't apply. lol. Seriously.

The list of parts that count toward this transformation are specifically spelled out. Things like stocks and barrels count. Things like screws and springs don't.

So you buy US-made stocks, a US-made receiver, even US-made magazine parts, and you can turn it into the most aggressive looking weapon of destruction you like. Just not with foreign-made parts. Stupid, but true.

None of this applies to handguns. Stupid-er, but just as true.

Somewhat recently the ATF clarified that they DO interpret the law to apply to firearms that become rifles through the making and registering process on a Form 1, or if you wanted to build a regular Title I rifle out of it. In either case, you're creating a rifle that couldn't have been imported due to 925(d)3, so 922(r) applies.

Gotta buy a rather pointless pile of US-made bits and pieces to get your "parts count" right so we can all pretend your rifle was made in the USA.
 
My understanding is the NFA will bypass 922R as 922R only applies to "sporting guns", of which a SBR wouldn't be.

I could be completely wrong, however.

Unfortunately, no.
 
Fortunately, as I understand it, CZ is going to do the hard part for you and will be selling a package of made-in-the-USA compliance parts for all the folks who want to make SBRs out of these.

Right SPORTING of them, I say! :D
 
Wow... All because of the country of origin & how threatening it looks.

Thank you Sam.
Do I have to have some compliant parts before the form 1 will be accepted? So will my application be denied, or can I hope by the time I get the stamp back, CZ or a 3rd party has released enough US parts?

& how is that something they even police? Will they make you strip your gun down right there on the spot if they suspect your firearm has too few 'Murican parts in it?
 
I had that problem when I SBR'd my CX4 storm and threaded the barrel. I had to change out the whole trigger group to get it to the right amount of made in usa parts. Luckly serria papa makes the whole trigger housing and triggers
 
of all of the useless gun laws.....922r has got to be close to #1 in terms of utter uselessness.....

weve got to take these parts, and replace them with the exact same thing made in this country, because apparently the foreign parts make the gun more dangerous.......:banghead:
 
Oddly, 922r applies even though the ATF has consistently (rare, for them) held that any 'status change' of a firearm constitutes manufacturing (even shouldering that SIG brace, btw) for the purposes of prosecution, which would by definition be Domestic manufacture of said firearm.

One of many ways (AOW, SBR, MG, trusts, manufacturing...basically every area of ATF review) the ATF seeks to have its legal cake and eat it too. It'd have been challenged and struck down in court long ago if the ATF had the stones to actually prosecute anyone as a test case (don't tempt them; they'll ruin your life and burn your house down by accident)

TCB
 
Do I have to have some compliant parts before the form 1 will be accepted? So will my application be denied, or can I hope by the time I get the stamp back, CZ or a 3rd party has released enough US parts?
No, your application will be accepted. Until you actually create the new configuration, the gun will still be a handgun.

how is that something they even police? Will they make you strip your gun down right there on the spot if they suspect your firearm has too few 'Murican parts in it?
That's the funny thing. No one can really say. First off, the law doesn't say the gun is illegal if configured a certain way. It says the act of building it as such is illegal. In theory, if you buy a non-922(r) compliant firearm, you haven't broken the law because you did not do that act of building it. (Probably the gun is still subject to seizure, I'm sure.) So stripping it down and inspecting it wouldn't necessarily prove that you broke the law...just that someone must have at some point.

922(r) is one of those laws that is so obtuse and dim that it doesn't seem to get much effort in the way of enforcement. I've yet to ever hear of a case where someone was prosecuted for violating it. It is often said to be a tack-on charge, where if you've been a REAL bad boy and they're looking to throw the whole book at you, they might add that into the list. But as a stand-alone conviction, I haven't heard of it ever happening.

Still, the whole gun nut community is pretty aware of it and all the major import rifle gear companies sell a lot of parts because of it. Whole companies (like Arsenal, for example) pretty much made their place in the world building "American Made" AKs out of overseas guns spruced up with American parts, only because Americans wanted AKs and they couldn't just import them. (That and the whole, "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" issue.)

because apparently the foreign parts make the gun more dangerous.....
Naaw, not really. Like most parts of the NFA, these things are artifacts of laws that were supposed to do something specific but were worked around or only partially implemented, and now we're left with various inane bits and pieces we have to comply with.

Like for example, why is a concealable handgun ok, and a big powerful rifle ok, but certain things in between are very, very illegal? Is it because there's something especially dangerous about rifles with barrels that are only 15" long? Of course not! The law on "SBRs" only exists as a relic of the fact that all concealable weapons (all handguns!) were supposed to be NFA firearms and heavily regulated. SBRs or SBSs were regulated to prevent people from taking full-sized hunting guns and making pseudo-handguns out of them. When that aspect was thankfully removed from the bill, the SBR and SBS parts of it made no sense at all, but the lawmakers never got around to really cleaning that bill up and making sure it wasn't a pile of scrambled garbage before they passed it.

So we all, like a bunch of loonies, have come generations later to view short-barreled rifles as some super-dangerous and special class of firearms, when that whole idea is utterly stupid.

When 922(r) was written, it wasn't with any idea that companies would make "compliance parts" and help millions of American gun owners buy or build EXACTLY the same guns 925(d)3 was supposed to prevent from being imported. Lawmakers, not being terribly bright, or having much of a clue about gun tech, figured they were nailing shut the big loophole, instead of opening a huge one that would create a whole new niche in the firearms industry.

Legislative accident. Heaven help us if someone ever invents a truly insightful legislator. We'll be doomed!
 
Oddly, 922r applies even though the ATF has consistently (rare, for them) held that any 'status change' of a firearm constitutes manufacturing (even shouldering that SIG brace, btw) for the purposes of prosecution, which would by definition be Domestic manufacture of said firearm.

Actually, this ruling does make sense, unfortunately. 922(r) doesn't just say domestic manufacture. It specifically prohibits domestic manufacture of those weapons from foreign parts. So that's one of those issues they have a pretty firm basis on.

(Sort of like the SIG brace ruling, IMHO.)
 
Just a note or two to remember regarding 922(r).

It is not a crime to own a firearm that is not 922(r) complaint.

It is not a crime to sell a firearms that is not 922(r) complaint.

You have to be caught manufacturing a firearm that is not 922(r) complaint for it to be a crime.
 
I built my AK SBR to be 922r compliant but I'm starting to wonder about my Glock SBRs in Roni or Fab Defense stocks. Not even sure if there is an official list of which parts count in Glock SBRs (I can read the statue but in the case of an AK the ATF said the sear does not count for compliance).

Mike
 
You have to be caught manufacturing a firearm that is not 922(r) complaint for it to be a crime.

As I pointed out before, that is the text of the law. Whether you are likely to be charged, tried, and convicted if not caught in the act of manufacturing seems to be an unexplored area.

And the rifle would undoubtedly be considered contraband and forfeit, if ever discovered.
 
And the rifle would undoubtedly be considered contraband and forfeit, if ever discovered.


Nope wrong on that. They can't and don't do anything to non-compliant guns that are in circumstance where they would not normally take them (like involved in a crime).

Possessing or owning one is not a crime, nor a reason to confiscate.
 
Ok, got any examples to back that up? Might be true but the lack of cases of enforcement makes it hard to prove.
 
Ok, got any examples to back that up? Might be true but the lack of cases of enforcement makes it hard to prove.

Well I walked a few aisles at the HGCA show in Houston with a pair of BATFE agents. Got introduced to them when they let the HPD officer that was head of security there know they were in the building. We had a few questions for them and looked at a number of rifles that were not 922(r) compliant (FAL and AKs). That is the only personal experience I have, as our conversations were not 'official' but friendly. But I guess we also have millions of non-arrests and non-events also, hard to find a single documented one when it made the news on the other side.
 
I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on tv and I didn't stay at a Holliday Inn last night. IMHO, the real question here is; Who wants to be a test case?

Most of this is pointless as many of the firearms that people want to SBR have enough US made parts available that it can be done legally but the BTAFE seems to be set on making law abiding citizens criminals as they seem to be able to interpret laws how and when it suits them.

It also seems like you need to bring their attention down on you inorder for it to be a problem ... Case in point, the SiG armbrace. The BATFE had published an opinion that no matter how it was used that did not alter the classification of the item. So basically, a pistol is a pistol ... then all of a sudden they change their position to "if you use the armbrace as a stock, it is a stock and you are in possession of an unregistered SBR."

Personally, I can't afford to, and don't have any desire, to be a test case.

This is just my opinion and if I'm wrong, so be it.
 
Heh, that's pretty slick. You have to admire the facility with which he deflects using the "you're innocent until proven guilty..." theme.

But even though such letters aren't really binding in any way, that is all completely consistent with the understanding commonly given on how the 922(r) situation works.
 
From research, and discussions with firearms focused attorneys, it's 99% that you will not get arrested and convicted solely for a 922(r) violation.
I'm not saying not to worry about it, but 922(r) charges are generally used as add-ons to other arrests.
It is still something that we pay attention to and comply with, because we follow the laws even if they seem absurd.
 
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