Help with my first antique gun

[Riccaia]

Hello everyone, hope you're doing ok in these crazy times.

I'm here once again asking for your expertise, while browsing a famous auction house I stumbled upon a beautiful Winchester Hotchkiss in .45-70; it is in pretty good conditions and I'm kinda in love with old bolt action rifles but, when I was about to do my bidding some doubts started, and since I'm fairly inexperienced I stopped and now I'm trying to collect some information. Now the gun is in working conditions (of course I'll be able to inspect it better when the auction day arrives) but I have some concerns about what kind of ammo should I use, I'm not a handloader, unfortunately, I don't have the time, and that stopped me from buying old mil surplus in the past but 45-70 is pretty common and from good brands such as Federal, Winchester, Remington etc... so I would be able to buy this caliber for fairly cheap but since the gun is manufactured in 1880 more or less I'm a little concerned about using modern ammo on such an old gun, could you guys please give me some clarification about this topic, please?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Robert]

Most modern 45-70 is loaded fairly mild. Stay away from Buffalo Bore and some of the hot Hornady stuff and it should be fine. I don't know much about the rifle in question, but generally speaking, bolt action rifles are stronger than the trapdoors of the era and most modern 45-70 is loaded trapdoor safe.

Now, I am speaking in general terms. Someone with better knowledge of the specific rifle in question may be better able to answer.

Some reading for you:
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/rifles/winchester-hotchkiss/

 

[Riccaia]

Thank you very much Robert, I will give it a read

 

[Oldschool shooter]

The 405 grain Remington factory ammo "should" be safe if the rifle is in sound working condition. I used that ammo for years in an original trapdoor carbine andhad no issues, it is a mild load. That said, I would have a gunsmith give the gun a good look over before I shot it.

 

[Jim Watson]

Ken Waters rated the Winchester Hotchkiss in "Group II" along with the Winchester 1886. But it is still an old rifle.
It was designed for real .45-70-405. Closest modern approximation to that is "Cowboy" ammunition. Cowboy .45-70 is not the powderpuff ammo popular in revolvers, it gets the old standard 405 grain bullet up to 1150-1300 fps, depending on brand and barrel length, which is about like black powder.

I think the various 300 grain bullets are loaded a bit "hotter." Still within SAAMI specifications but on the high side of them.
Really avoid the small shop bear bumpers with utter maximum loads and even so-called +P.

From personal experience, I can say that a 404 gr bullet at 1200 fps is about all the fun I want, even though mine is a .40-65 single shot.

 

[StrawHat]

The weak trapdoor rifles were the 1865, 1866 and early 1868s. By the time the 1873 was introduced all parts were new built for the rifles and carbines.

But your Winchester will be fine with Winchester, Remington or Federal ammunition. Even better would be blackpowder loads with lead bullets. Original loads were the 405 grain bullet over 70 grains of powder. Testing later caused the Army to approve a 500 grain bullet over the same powder charge.

Hope you get it. Tell us about it if you do.

Kevin

 

[Riccaia]

Thank you, everyone, for your time, for what I learned by browsing my local gunshop by far the most prominent cartridges are the Winchester 300 gr and the hornday 325 lever-Evo, what do you think? Are they a bit too hot for an old gun? By the way, the gun in question is this https://www.czernys.com/a-109/?o=90895 it would be lovely if someone more expert than me could take a look at it

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

I understand the constraints about time only too well, but this is the sort of rifle you make time for. or put aside until you can.

Speaking for myself as always, I would stick with relatively light handloads and restrict this rifle to just the occasional shooting session. Replacing broken parts will be a problem.

 

[caribou]

You would do fine with a load of 70 FFgrains Black Powder, and your choice of Bullet.

That Hotchkiss is one sweet, elegant rifle, I would just love to own one.

 

[792mauser]

The barrels of those old rifles were made for lead projectiles. I've seen a trapdoor worn smooth from modern jacketed bullets.

Other than that I see no problem with firing trapdoor level blackpowder/smokeless loads in a Hotchkiss.