How do we help California?

[Sheepdog1968]

Let California fall into the pacific.
Quite honestly anyone living there had already made a cost vs benefit analysis of their life and decided to stay knowing whats happening there.
I don't sell anything to California, I avoid going to california, I don't spend money with california businesses.

That's for sure. There are a lot of gun owners here by the way. I know I and several of my gun friends when there was a petition being circulated t get CA broken up into six smaller states.

 

[Warp]

there was a petition being circulated t get CA broken up into six smaller states.

Yeah, that's not happening lol

 

[danez71]

To me, it's a simple concept to understand: Pro-gun people in California are outnumbered. It's like telling a 90 pound woman with a 300 pound man sitting on her to "get up".

And on that note...

Lady Liberty has a significant part of her being molested.

Do you help her?

Or do you turn a blind eye and let the molester get stronger, more bold, and brazen to only seek out its next victim?

Jeeez... even the French were more willing to help fight for liberty than most in this thread.

And they're half way around the world on the other side of an ocean.

Sad sad state of affairs around here.



(By 'you', I dont necessarily mean the one I quoted')

 

[harrygunner]

I proposed an approach in post #45. I simply rather not blame California gun owners.

In my mind, California highlights the fact that a Constitutional Republic, in and of itself is not self-stabilizing. When all three branches of a state ignore the Constitution and the Feds punt, the top law can be nullified.

 

[Warp]

And on that note...

Lady Liberty has a significant part of her being molested.

Do you help her?

Or do you turn a blind eye and let the molester get stronger, more bold, and brazen to only seek out its next victim?

Jeeez... even the French were more willing to help fight for liberty than most in this thread.

And they're half way around the world on the other side of an ocean.

Sad sad state of affairs around here.



(By 'you', I dont necessarily mean the one I quoted')

What are the French doing, exactly?

 

[evan price]

California is in a similar predicament to Illinois- Chicago dominates that state. California is dominated by Southern California.
The north of the state is beautiful and wild and full if people who want to be free. But they don't have the votes.
Calguns tries to fight a heroic battle but ultimately no amount if wishing, working or hand-wavium can save them.
When a structure is on fire, and it is out of control, sometimes the incident commander has to make the decision to pull back the hoses and focus on saving the neighboring properties. That is California.

 

[Warp]

California is in a similar predicament to Illinois- Chicago dominates that state. California is dominated by Southern California.
The north of the state is beautiful and wild and full if people who want to be free. But they don't have the votes.
Calguns tries to fight a heroic battle but ultimately no amount if wishing, working or hand-wavium can save them.
When a structure is on fire, and it is out of control, sometimes the incident commander has to make the decision to pull back the hoses and focus on saving the neighboring properties. That is California.

Well, except that Illinois has no magazine capacity restriction, no "assault rifle" restriction, no bullet buttons or any of that mess, no handgun roster, and has shall-issue concealed carry.

 

[barnbwt]

You know, if the third of freedom minded CA residents bailed out, that state would lose a lot of its electoral and economic power (and then likely implode). The states they flee to reinforced against antigun influence, and also reap a proportional electoral boon.

What am I missing, other than the existence of freedom loving hordes come pouring from California all teeming-masses? Voting with your feet is a real thing, and is actually the primary reason the worst tyrannies collapse in the end, to be occaisionally replaced with something better. Hoping it gets better in the face of all evidence is simply the human instinct to wait out the drought/famine in lieu of real corrective action --which brings peace when you have no options as a subsistence farmer, but isn't productive in making the most of our current choices as first-world denizens.

TCB

 

[danez71]

What are the French doing, exactly?

I said "were", not "are".


Are you going to start mischaracterizing words again in this thread too?

 

[danez71]

You know, if the third of freedom minded CA residents bailed out, that state would lose a lot of its electoral and economic power (and then likely implode). The states they flee to reinforced against antigun influence, and also reap a proportional electoral boon.

But according to everyone here, the Californians that move to other states are ruining those states.

And you're suggesting 13-15 Million people move out of state to others. Oh the calamity.


Doesn't it stand to reason to reason that the ones that are leaving are the more conservative of them?

Sorry, you can't play both side of the fence.

These ideas border on the absurd and at minium silly on their face.




Look, if people are unwilling to help and make excuses..... suggest absurdaties.... come up with cute little quips and sound bites.... want to point fingers and mock others...

Fine. Everyone else has their own moral compass.


But stay out of the thread. This thread was 'how do we help?''.


What's happening in this thread is just flushing out the classless and fake 2A supporters here - "Pro 2A In Name Only".

 

[beeenbag]

The problem is simply the demographics of California. Yes there are a lot of areas that are populated with people that have the same stance as us but the areas that are most populated tend to be more liberal and therefore their voice is heard louder at the polls come election time. It's hard to lobby for firearms in a state that's population consists mainly of sheep and blinded liberals.

 

[phil dirt]

I feel like we are at war, and all wars cost lots of money. How many gun owners belong to the NRA and/or the other gun rights groups? I know quite a few, unfortunately, who claim to be members but don't contribute a nickel to the fight. At the present time, I'd much rather spend the money than shed the blood. However, as much as I hate it, Jefferson's tree of liberty needing to be refreshed seems to be more and more a future reality.

 

[Jason_W]

The problem is simply the demographics of California. Yes there are a lot of areas that are populated with people that have the same stance as us but the areas that are most populated tend to be more liberal and therefore their voice is heard louder at the polls come election time. It's hard to lobby for firearms in a state that's population consists mainly of sheep and blinded liberals.

This is what I noticed upon moving here from northern New England two years ago. There's actually a bigger "gun community" here in California than there is in my old stomping grounds and there are more places to shoot within a stone's throw of where I'm sitting than anywhere I lived in Vermont or Maine.

The only real hope to prevent gun laws here from getting more insane is the supreme court. I know they've overturned some CA gun laws in the past on the grounds of being unconstitutional.

 

[Wishoot]

As the song goes...

"Send Lawyers, Guns and Money"

 

[giggitygiggity]

I've wondered if the military stationed in CA voted as a CA resident, how it would shape the political battlefield. Lots of military in and around San Diego County (NAB Coronado, Naval Base San Diego, Point Loma, North Island, Miramar, Camp Pendleton). And there are other military installations scattered throughout the rest of CA. If all military and their families voted as CA residents instead of residents of their home states, it could produce an effect both in CA and nationally.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Originally posted by Danez71

Doesn't it stand to reason to reason that the ones that are leaving are the more conservative of them?

You just articulated the problem -- the "more conservative" Californians are still to the left of Hillary Clinton.

 

[danez71]

You just articulated the problem -- the "more conservative" Californians are still to the left of Hillary Clinton.

Bull. I normally tend to think your posts have legitimate thought behind them but these are coming from the wrong hole.


That's probably the most ignorant, baseless, and unsubstantiated statement I've seen you ever post and should offend every CA THR member here.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Originally posted by danez71:
Bull. I normally tend to think your posts have legitimate thought behind them but these are coming from the wrong hole.


That's probably the most ignorant, baseless, and unsubstantiated statement I've seen you ever post and should offend every CA THR member here.

When you resort to personal attacks, you've forfeited the discussion.

 

[jmorris]

What am I missing, other than the existence of freedom loving hordes come pouring from California all teeming-masses? Voting with your feet is a real thing

It is, but folks are leaving for other reasons too. So they move for non firearms related issues and carry their antigun beliefs with them to the next State they go to.

Wonder what effect CA transplants had on the CO mag ban, positive or negative?

 

[buck460XVR]

Saying "how do we help California" is like saying, "How do we help people who slept and partied through school, were 'socially promoted,' graduated without being able to read and write, got hooked on drugs and had children out of wedlock?"

I tend to agree. Californians have to first help themselves. That is if they want to. I don't see that happening. California has always promoted a lifestyle that is completely different than other places in the country. Heck, even their tourism commercials promote this. California is where they are at with firearms because they not only allowed it to happen, but for the most part, strongly supported it. That's how our system of government works. They have not been taken over by a dictator that imposed the gun laws on them, the people elected their government, freely. The majority of folks there did this to the whole state. Folks scream that we need to take away more Federal controls and hand them over to the states. I agree, but that still does not guarantee that populations in other states will see things the same as those in our own state.

 

[jmorris]

As an example of what I was talking about in post #69

Over the past 10 years, approximately 5 million people have moved away from the state of California, and as you will see in this article this mass exodus appears to be accelerating. So why exactly is this happening?

Once upon a time, it seemed like almost everyone wanted to live in California. The nearly endless sunshine, the incredible weather, the pristine beaches and a booming economy motivated millions of young Americans to move out there to pursue "the California Dream." In fact, in the early 90s, I actually explored the idea of moving out there myself. But now the California Dream has become a nightmare. Californians are being taxed to death, traffic in the major cities is absolutely horrific, violent crime and gang activity are on the rise, millions of illegal immigrants are putting an incredible strain on social support systems, and the ultra-liberal government in Sacramento seems to have gone completely insane. In addition, the state faces constant threats from earthquakes, wildfires, droughts and mudslides, so it is quite understandable why so many people feel motivated to leave and never come back.

You can note the absence of "fleeing insane antigun laws".

 

[danez71]

When you resort to personal attacks, you've forfeited the discussion.

Nice try.

I'm not attacking you, only your statement.

You're statements since page 2 have been disparaging and stereotyping all Californian's which is explicit against THE rules.

If you have objective evidence to support yourself then present it as I have provided objective evidence to support that at least some Californians are still fighting and proves your baseless statements to be false.

 

[JO JO]

I find Califungus folks like to argue and toss rules and laws around, I am not a fan of the transplant's I have talked with their a different breed, I sometimes think why not return that state to Mexico and start the wall at southern Oregon.
You can NOT fix or help what does not want fixing or help !!

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

Hopefully the San-Andreas fault will sever completely and it will float away into the Pacific, lol.

They have an enormous impact on Presidential elections too......55 electoral votes.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Every one with a jack hammer report to the fault line? Maybe support that whole cali becoming two states thing? I don't see socal being financially stable with out its northern bread basket areas (not that it's all that stable now) and socal going under is the only way I see changing enough minds there to get any one other than the current status quo into office .

NO! The divide would place SD/LA in one state, and SF/Oakland in the other. Those are the two population centers that dominate the California political landscape.

Making two states would just mean there would be four Senators like Boxer and Feinstein.

Breaking California into multiple states would lead to movements to break up other states, like Texas and Alaska into multiple states. The smaller the states, the more the metropolitan areas will dominate the senatorial make-up.