How many rounds?

[ms6852]

Pictures of the bore

Sorry forgot to insert the images. The grooves on the rifling need to be cleaned.

 

[Turkeytider]

On the first image it appears the grooves are getting filled with lead, creating what could seem like a smooth bore scenario. You are leading up.

What, if anything, is noted to be particularly good at lead removal?

 

[JmacD]

What, if anything, is noted to be particularly good at lead removal?

Sharp-shoot-r (same company that makes wipe-out/ Patch out) has a lead-out that I have found to work well… as always, ymmv.

 

[igotta40]

On the first image it appears the grooves are getting filled with lead, creating what could seem like a smooth bore scenario. You are leading up.

?? The first photo is before cleaning, it’s a 6.5 Creedmoor, not a 22lr, so I don’t know how lead would get into the grooves. Does a copper jacketed bullet wear through to the lead core as it travels down the barrel? Please enlighten me.

 

[Turkeytider]

?? The first photo is before cleaning, it’s a 6.5 Creedmoor, not a 22lr, so I don’t know how lead would get into the grooves. Does a copper jacketed bullet wear through to the lead core as it travels down the barrel? Please enlighten me.

That`s a question in my mind as well. If one shoots only jacketed bullets, shouldn`t lead accumulation be essentially negligible? Then again, I`m always in need of education on this stuff!

 

[Jim Watson]

All four screws loose.

There was the guy here who figured his base screws, mount screws, and guard screws were tight enough because his rifle did not rattle when he shook it. A more experienced shooter showed him that was not an adequate test.

 

[ms6852]

?? The first photo is before cleaning, it’s a 6.5 Creedmoor, not a 22lr, so I don’t know how lead would get into the grooves. Does a copper jacketed bullet wear through to the lead core as it travels down the barrel? Please enlighten me.

That`s a question in my mind as well. If one shoots only jacketed bullets, shouldn`t lead accumulation be essentially negligible? Then again, I`m always in need of education on this stuff!

Depending on the velocity and the rifle twist, there could be a possibility that the jacketing is too thin and coming apart. Of course it is only a hypothesis. I have no real proof.

 

[ms6852]

What, if anything, is noted to be particularly good at lead removal?

Elbow grease and Hoppes 9 is my go too. Liberally use a patch and run it through the barrel and let it soak a few minutes. I'll run 3 or 4 patches soaked in solvent and as a final pass I like to use a brush bronze or copper. Than I do the dry patches. There are more solvents out there that do real good to but I notice Hoppes 9 to be slightly better. When it comes to the polishing cloths I prefer Birchwood Casey over Hoppes cloth. Just does a better and quicker jobs of removing the burnt powder and lead residue on revolver cylinders.

 

[Turkeytider]

Depending on the velocity and the rifle twist, there could be a possibility that the jacketing is too thin and coming apart. Of course it is only a hypothesis. I have no real proof.

I would think that if the jackets came apart, so would any accuracy.

 

[ms6852]

I would think that if the jackets came apart, so would any accuracy.

That is correct and that was what the OP was complaining about too. Notice that I also stated it was a hypothesis of mine or better yet just an assumption. But the grooves do look like they are not clean, it could be lead.

 

[Varminterror]

Does a copper jacketed bullet wear through to the lead core as it travels down the barrel? Please enlighten me.

No. Absolutely not.

?? The first photo is before cleaning, it’s a 6.5 Creedmoor, not a 22lr, so I don’t know how lead would get into the grooves.

The shiny fouling you’ve mistakenly identified as lead is actually carbon.

 

[Turkeytider]

No. Absolutely not.



The shiny fouling you’ve mistakenly identified as lead is actually carbon.

So V, by extension, would you say that someone who shoots jacketed bullets exclusively ( which I assume is most folks? ) should expect little, if any, lead accumulation?

 

[Varminterror]

So V, by extension, would you say that someone who shoots jacketed bullets exclusively ( which I assume is most folks? ) should expect little, if any, lead accumulation?

None.

The only exception is open based ball ammo, which in principle has exposed lead which experiences the heat and pressure of ignition, and can deposit lead - more notably in the gas system than the bore, but certainly both. But far, far less than lead bullets which contact the bore and rifling.

But it’s exceptionally common for folks to mistake baked carbon - shiny and silver - for lead fouling.

 

[jmorris]

So V, by extension, would you say that someone who shoots jacketed bullets exclusively ( which I assume is most folks? ) should expect little, if any, lead accumulation?

You've never recovered a bullet? Only "leading" is going to be when it opens up in something. I know people that actually "shoot out" leading from cast bullets, with jacketed bullets.



Now you have me wondering what the melting temp was on the plastic tips Hornady used to use before they found out they were failing in flight...

 

[Varminterror]

Now you have me wondering what the melting temp was on the plastic tips Hornady used to use before they found out they were failing in flight.

The tips were softening enough to deform. Not being burned away, and certainly not doing so in the bore to begin releasing lead into the grooves.

It’s just fire-caked carbon that guys mistake for lead.

 

[jmorris]

This is an interesting read on the temp subject.

Temperature Measurement of a Bullet in Flight

This study answers a primary question concerning how the temperature changes during the flight of a bullet. To answer the question, the authors performed unique research to measure the initial temperatures of bullet surfaces and applied it to four kinds ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Varminterror]

Depending on the velocity and the rifle twist, there could be a possibility that the jacketing is too thin and coming apart. Of course it is only a hypothesis. I have no real proof.

Overspun bullets come apart outside of the barrel. Not within the bore.

 

[igotta40]

Overspun bullets come apart outside of the barrel. Not within the bore.

Copper jacket disintegrates in the bore? Yea there’s a lot I don’t know but I’m not buying it.

 

[Varminterror]

Copper jacket disintegrates in the bore? Yea there’s a lot I don’t know but I’m not buying it.

You can watch it happen, bullets come apart in front of the barrel, in a cloud of lead.

 

[ms6852]

Overspun bullets come apart outside of the barrel. Not within the bore.

Than is it possible that the bullets might be undersized and not grabbing the lands and grooves properly? I'm out of theories.

 

[edwardware]

I scrubbed the barrel with a copper remover and flushed it with Hoppe’s No.9

I'd start here. I've never met a copper solvent that benefitted from scrubbing; ime a well-coppered barrel wants a fresh patch of Copper Killer every hour for a day, or you can compress that jnto an afternoon with Sweet's 7.62. In both cases, you should recheck for copper after normal cleaning.

In short, it's likely you aren't effectively cleaning the barrel. Save the Hoppe's 9 for aftershave and pistol barrels.

 

[Turkeytider]

If it`s baked on carbon, how about an over night soak in C4?

 

[Varminterror]

Than is it possible that the bullets might be undersized and not grabbing the lands and grooves properly? I'm out of theories.

Theories for what? The dude mistook carbon fouling for lead, nothing left to theorize about.

 

[Varminterror]

If it`s baked on carbon, how about an over night soak in C4?

1) It doesn’t take that long for C4 to do its work. 2) Overnight will just let the solvent flash off and nothing more will happen after a relatively short time. Soaking for 20min vs. 20hrs will yield nearly no difference in outcome.

It is easier to let chemistry do the work to remove fouling, instead of manually abrading. Soaking hard caked fouling long enough for the surface to fully react will make patches and brushes more effective at pushing out the dissolved or otherwise softened matrix, but deep penetration into hard caked and baked fouling just doesn’t happen. Chemicals can’t work on fouling (reactants) they can’t reach, solvent efficacy is diminished as the reactions progress, and solvents (active and diluent) gas off relatively quickly.

Brushes abrade, patches push, and solvents dissolve. Cycling these 3 actions appropriately will speed up the process. Brush first to abrade loose carbon, cutting down the easily removed carbon to get it out of the way and give the solvent access to the hard. Run a wet patch to soak the hard stuff in solvent to soften it. I personally let that sit for 10-20min or so, then I chase again with a brush to break free the chemically softened fouling, then patches to carry it away. When patches come out clean, I go back with solvent again, soaking again. After the second cycle, I don’t expect to be clean, but I dip the borescope to get an idea of how close - or not - I might be at that time.

 

[Barmcd]

Does it take to shoot out a barrel? Specifically, a 6.5 Creedmoor? I have a Savage 110 Precision Elite I bought new in 2021. I started with it using Hornady factory rounds about the same time I began hand loading. My best shooting had been a single ragged hole using 44.1 grains of Staball 6.5 under a Nosler 140 grain OTM. The factory ammo was good but the hand loads were better. Last 3 times at the range I’ve been averaging 2” - 3” groups with my hand loads. I scrubbed the barrel with a copper remover and flushed it with Hoppe’s No.9 then today I bought a variety of 3 boxes of factory ammo in 129, 140 and 147 to “baseline“ the rifle, so to speak. My point of impact varied some, as I would expect, but all groups were exactly the same, 2-3 inches at 100 yards. This rifle has well under 1,000 rounds through it. I’ve checked all the receiver screws, scope screws, etc. I can dial the scope to move the groups consistently but the size of the groups doesn’t change. The optic is a Crimson Trace 5-25 FFP. I brought along a similar rifle with me, my Savage 110 Precision 300 Win Mag. It’s consistently shooting sub MOA and boring accurate, so that eliminates me as the problem. I’ll have my buddy shoot with me next week and see how he does with it. Sorry for the long post but I’m stumped.

I have a Savage Axis II Precision with 2500 rounds through it and accuracy hasn't suffered. The throat's eroded a bit, but accuracy doesn't seem affected by it. I clean it every 250 rounds and haven't had any carbon build up that I know about.