How to improve speed while maintaining accuracy?

[hey.moe]

Something you may also want to consider is to videotape yourself so you can analyze your movements. The camera will reveal your mistakes and rough edges. It will show you things immediately that you'd probably never notice otherwise.

-Stan-

 

[breakingcontact]

I've thought of setting up a camera. Good suggestion.

 

[David E]

Pay for a lesson or class from someone who knows what they're doing or be forever frustrated.

Trying to "get faster" via an online forum is 99% fruitless.

 

[Gag_Halfront]

WRT shot timers mentioned above: Has anybody played with shot timer apps on iphone (or other smartphone)? I downloaded one the other day but haven't had a chance to use it. Wondering if anybody has used their phone as a shot timer and if so, is it a useful substitute for a proper timer? Not meaning to thread-jack but it seems relevant as a possible low-cost training aid for the OP and others following the thread.

 

[peacemaker45]

Lessons shorten the learning curve. Think of it this way. The average person takes 300-500 repetitions of a new action to add it to muscle memory. That same average person takes 3,000-5,000 repetitions to change an action (like a bad habit,) which is already in your muscle memory.

Now, picture all the tiny little ways it's possible to go wrong in shooting. If you try to learn on your own, you'll very likely get many, if not most of them wrong. Possibly only subtly wrong, but wrong. Now multiply all those little errors by the 5,000 reps it may take you to fix them, if indeed you realize that they are errors at all.

Learning to shoot as a DIY proposition is possible, but slow and painful.

Learn the right way. An instructor is your friend. Practice the right way. Dry fire is your friend. A timer is your friend.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by hey.moe: Something you may also want to consider is to videotape yourself so you can analyze your movements. The camera will reveal your mistakes and rough edges.

That might help if you have the expertise to analyze your motions or to recognize your mistakes and rough edges.

Most people can do neither.

I have seen qualified instructors videotape some rather experienced competitors and point out errors and bad habits.

 

[Mikhail Weiss]

...I have seen qualified instructors videotape some rather experienced competitors and point out errors and bad habits.

I'm curious: how well do those rather experienced competitors do?

 

[David E]

I'm curious: how well do those rather experienced competitors do?

That's the same thing I was thinking.

Rob Leatham slaps his trigger, doing it all "wrong," but I'm confident he could outshoot those "qualified instructors" on his worst day.

I'm reminded of the following: "To the astronomer, man is an insignificant speck," an astronomer said pompously to his blue collar friend. To which the friend replied, "but do not forget, the insignificant speck is still the astronomer."

I'm sure if those "qualified instructors" were taped, one could pick out an array of things they're doing wrong.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Something you may also want to consider is to videotape yourself so you can analyze your movements. The camera will reveal your mistakes and rough edges. It will show you things immediately that you'd probably never notice otherwis

That might help if you have the expertise to analyze your motions or to recognize your mistakes and rough edges.

Most people can do neither.

That is one of the truths about learning how to shoot. It is one thing to not being aware of a habit you've developed (that you can work on correcting), but quite another to recognize weaknesses that you aren't aware of.

Beyond that, even if you recognize something, you'd have to understand it enough to correct it.

The oft heard refrain, to folks looking to improve their shooting, of "practice, practice, practice," is pretty senseless when you don't know what you should be practicing

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by David E:

Originally Posted by Mikhail Weiss
I'm curious: how well do those rather experienced competitors do?
That's the same thing I was thinking.

That's the same thing I was thinking.

Rob Leatham slaps his trigger, doing it all "wrong," but I'm confident he could outshoot those "qualified instructors" on his worst day.

I'm reminded of the following: "To the astronomer, man is an insignificant speck," an astronomer said pompously to his blue collar friend. To which the friend replied, "but do not forget, the insignificant speck is still the astronomer."

I'm sure if those "qualified instructors" were taped, one could pick out an array of things they're doing wrong.

I really do not know how well they did; only that they had participated.

We were told that what we were being taught was used by the top 100 in the country.

Everyone did much better after the class.

BTW, my comments had to do with grip.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Handgun grip is very interesting.

I had a chance to take some training from a world class competitor a little while back and we talked about how to grip a handgun. What was interesting was when we took some pictures of his grip...to help us visualize when he was teaching...and his grip didn't seem to reflect what he was teaching.

Something about world class shooters...and most world class athletes...sometimes they are so good at what they do, that they can't explain what it is they are doing.

 

[Al Thompson]

Ya know, as I approach my 6th decade, I'm struck that it's a journey, not an end state. Buddy of mine who is a Grand Master was having some slight issues with his blaster failing to lock open on an empty magazine about once every 200 rounds or so. Took him a while, but he discovered that his thumb placement (weak hand) had ridden up enough to ride the slide release.

Back to the basics was his response.

Anytime I have a "hiccup" I diagnose and run a few personal standard drills to get back to baseline.

 

[PoPo22]

Karl Rhen (KR Training) and Antoine Lane are both "Grand Master" level competitive shooters in your area who are affordable, well worth the investment. Good Luck

 

[David E]

I don't know Antoine, but Karl is great!

 

[btg3]

$30 for 30 minutes with a handgun coach proved invaluable to me.

If you can afford ammo, you can afford an instructor.

 

[Sav .250]

I`m sure all look good when not under pressure. As an attack of any kind can come from many angels. That being said, surprise tops quick /accurate most every time. Just getting of an on target shot will do more good.

 

[David E]

An attack of any kind can come from many angels.

I daresay, that's not a very angelic thing to do.

That being said, surprise tops quick /accurate most every time.

Surprise is usually on the side of the aggressor, but one can have a surprise or two of their own, ready to reveal quickly if/when possible. As a rule, if the aggressor thought you were armed, they would've deselected you. Feigning compliance only to draw and shoot the badguy quickly and accurately would be quite a surprise for them indeed.

Just getting (off a shot) on target will do more good.

But that shot needs to be delivered quickly and, probably, repeatedly. Hitting the badguy once in the big toe after he's shot/stabbed/slashed you multiple times isn't something to celebrate.

"Speed's fine, but accuracy is final," someone usually quotes. But speedy accuracy is the goal.

 

[breakingcontact]

How important is using the trigger reset? (Just releasing the trigger to the reset each shot)

 

[9mmepiphany]

Only releasing the trigger to the reset point, as opposed to fully releasing it, doesn't allow you to shoot faster due to the reduced movement...there is plenty of time during muzzle rise.

What it allows you to do is shoot more accurately at speed, because allows you better trigger control to prep the trigger rather then slap through the slack, takeup and likely the let off as the sights return onto target

 

[breakingcontact]

OK thanks, that is something ill need to be more aware of and start using. That makes since to not force yourself through anymore of the motions than necessary.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Be sure that you are resetting in parallel (as the gun is in recoil) and not in series (after the sights have returned onto target)

I thought everyone did it that way, until I started reading folks advising the opposite

 

[stargeezer]

Many fail to see the need for being as flexible and as strong in the arms and hands as you can be. I see some folks in local IPSC matches who exhibit poor physical training. Now I'm a bit old and since I'm in a wheelchair, shooting those matches is out for my well padded posterior - so I'm really not throwing stones guys. I'd love to run those courses, it just can't happen. what I and anyone can do is to work your arms and hand muscles to make sure your great grip stays where you intend it to be. Stronger arm and shoulders help you to recover from recoil quickly and to absorb the shock from a firing gun.

 

[breakingcontact]

Went to the range this week. Was very cold and windy but I went anyways.

I tried to focus on the things we've been discussing in this thread.

I started off slow and steady, trying to just focus on the basics.

By the end of the session, I was able to rapid fire and keep all of my shots in the 8 (edge of the 9 ring, this was a target 12" wide) at 7 yards and regularly busting clay pigeons set up on the berm at 10 yards. (no not on top if it) I know some of you can do better than that and it's not a long distance, but that's an improvement for me at a distance I consider very practical for self defense and I'm very happy with it.

How did I improve?

I already had a decent: stance, hand position, sight picture, trigger press before

What I focused on this range trip was maintaining that while focusing on improving my grip (gripped the gun harder) and most importantly for the first time since I've been shooting handguns (I'm ashamed to admit), I only shot to the reset on the trigger. I read people talking about the reset on triggers before and honestly, I don't think I "got" what people were talking about or why they cared. I understood the reset they were describing, but I didn't think I needed to use it as I shot good groups, but I didn't shoot good groups fast which is what led to this thread.

Hands didn't work exactly right in the cold and wind, but it was some good training this morning.

Best way I can describe what I was doing before vs now is:

BEFORE I'd make the shot, then my finger wouldn't just ride the trigger out to the reset but all the way out. Then on the next shot I'd have to take up the slack to the break to make my next shot. I was doing this after reacquiring my sight picture. So it was basically an added step and took more time.

NOW I'm viewing my finger on the trigger almost as part of my grip (only when firing of course). I press the trigger, make the shot, then it just comes out to the reset. By the time I've got my sight picture back, I'm ready to press the trigger again and can get to the break quicker as I don't have to work through the take up in the trigger. It's one less step, saves time, I think even improved my group and had great results.

Thanks all! Hopefully someone else benefited from this thread or stumbles upon it in the future and it helps them out.

 

[Deer_Freak]

I know the OP mentioned not shooting IDPA until he improves his speed. IDPA is a free lesson. Some of the civilian shooters are kind of snooty. But the law enforcement league is really great. If you are not involved with law enforcement you have to get invited. But once you are invited it is a lot of fun. The rules are enforced fairly in the LEO league, unlike the civilian league. I prefer SA/DA pistols. In the civilian league I had to engage all the safeties on my guns. In the LEO league that is not a problem. One SO mentioned engaging the safety on my P95. Everyone there was like who carries that gun with the safety engaged? In the civilian league everyone backs up the SO even when he is dead wrong and breaking IDPA rules.

 

[breakingcontact]

I'm happy enough w my IDPA league. Think I've shot 3 times with them. After my most recent range trip I think ill do better at IDPA however I still need to work on my longer range shooting accuracy. My small gun makes the long range ones tough. Not an excuse just reality that I need to practice for. I am thinking of shooting IDPA just once of twice a year. It is fun but I really don't like some of the scenarios that have you hard charging at groups of bad guys. That's for another thread though I suppose. Perhaps its a good place for me to discover my areas that need improvement then I can work on them at my own pace, over and over at the range.