How to legally stay alive,UK

[broadsideofabarn]

The problem is not only gang or drug related. Here are some incidents that I remember:

1) A guy and his girl-friend were on the bus, going home. A goblin sitting a few rows behind them, made lewd suggestions to the girl and also threw hot chips at her. The boyfriend told him to cut it out and the goblin stabbed the boyfriend, who died shortly thereafter.

2) A homeowner saw a group of teens vandalizing his car outside his house. He stepped outside and told them to cut it out. They knocked him down and beat him up. He died from head injuries.

3) A guy was driving in his car with his girlfriend or sister (I can't remember). They stopped at a light and two goblins walked by on the curb. One of them threw a half-eaten chocolate bar into the car, like it was a trashcan. The driver got out and shouted at the man, who then killed him (either stabbed him or shot him, can't recall).

There have been many cases where a home-owner has come out of his house to stop vandals from damaging his property, and he has been killed. Most are stabbed or kicked to death but there have been shootings too.

The biggest threat to the ordinary man in the street, especially in London and other big cities, is gangs of teenaged puke-bags running around causing mischief. They are really bold and carry sticks and rods in broad daylight. If the cops are called the kids ditch the sticks and nothing can be done. I have seen it right here in my street.
A guy was killed on my street corner by a gang of teenagers. They are dangerous.

Well, that's put a new twist on my interest in the BBC's job listings.

Hey, just my "mad scientist" tendencies getting a bit loose here, but hypothetically, if the ONLY way to be secure would be by breaking UK law, what about a rimfire umbrella? Fully suppressed? Everything nicely concealed? Are Britons similar sheeple to most Americans who'd give you plenty of time to casually stroll away from a dead goblin before they'd even called the authorities?

Not a suggestion, but a thought.

 

[mike101]

Home made flai

Someone suggested this on THR a few days ago. Loop some nylon lanyard cord through a guard rail nut. Or, you could order a real flail from Dixie Gun Works.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/popup_image.php?pID=8274&osCsid=dc355bb75a409fdda5b1ecd53b37ee58

 

[Matt_W]

On private property ANY weapon is legal, firearms need the relevant Certificates.

 

[Fosbery]

Matt_W,

I appreciate what I think you were trying to say, but I think it needs some clarification:

It is legal to defend yourself with ANY weapon no matter what. You can legally defend yourself, even with an illegal gun. I think this has actually happened before.

But there are things which it is illegal to own. Guns without the correct certificate is one, but shotguns in particular are so easy to get that anyone interested in defending themselves should have one. There are also some things which you cannot buy or in some cases own pretty much full stop. You cannot own:

Stun guns
Tasers
Pepper spray, mace etc
(these are all classed as section 5 firearms which require permission of the Home Secretary to own)

You cannot buy, rent, leese, borrow, lend, sell, give, import, cause to be imported or make, but CAN own:

Butterfly knives
Belt-buckle knives
Concealed knives (e.g. knives that look like pens)
Knives that are invisible to metal detectors, except for those used in food preparation
Automatic knives
Push-daggers, except for those used in food preparation
Sword canes
Expanding batons
(these are specifically named offensive weapons which can be owned but not transferred. I believe the Home Secretary can exempt certain people from the law e.g. the police. Anything can be an offensive weapon is made, adapted or intended to be used as a weapon, but only these named items are illegal to transfer))

 

[Odd Job]

Broadside

I have long been saying that England (and possibly the UK in general) is going to the Chavs. The populace is brimming with apathy and a general lack of whatever 'stuff' existed in the past to make Great Britain truly Great.
This is the rot from within. This is us being shackled by the whims of our neighbours. It is us vs the majority.
And that is what is so sad.

 

[mike101]

Are you sure you don't live in New Jersey?

 

[Odd Job]

Anyway, before I forget, I must recommend and echo the suggestion of getting a crossbow if you don't want to get any licenses.
It is great fun at the range and much better than a dirty look if someone breaks in.

 

[CK]

Is slingshot a viable option?

 

[Warren]

Okay, say he got a crossbow what kind of point would be best?

 

[Matt_W]

Thanks for expanding for me. Just one minor point though;

(these are specifically named offensive weapons which can be owned but not transferred. I believe the Home Secretary can exempt certain people from the law e.g. the police. Anything can be an offensive weapon is made, adapted or intended to be used as a weapon, but only these named items are illegal to transfer))

The Home Sec does not actually have the power to excempt anyone. The exemptions are contained only within the legislation.

As far as SD purposes are concerned (police included) the 'Purposes of the Crown' exemption comes into play.

Preventing breaches of the peace and defence of the Realm are functions carried out on behalf of the Crown BTW.

 

[Odd Job]

Okay, say he got a crossbow what kind of point would be best?

Well, unless I am very much mistaken, he would get into a lot of trouble if he used a broadhead on an intruder. I seem to recall that those are taboo. I don't know if it applies to the expanding broadheads also. If it doesn't, that's what I would go for.
The problem will be the issue of intent. A guy sitting at home waxing the string of his crossbow in front of the TV will attract a lot less scrutiny if he shoots the intruder with a field tip, which just so happens to be what he uses at the local range or archery club.
If he uses a broadhead, there might be raised eyebrows or mutterings of 'Allo, allo...whats all this then? Do you use these broadheads at the range? If not, why do you have them?'
That's the logic that they use.

 

[Warren]

Just a simple tip? Would that stop someone? It might kill or incapacitate them at some point but will it do the job in the next 3-5 seconds.

 

[Odd Job]

I suppose it would depend on where the guy was hit.

 

[Lew]

I don't have any other suggestions, but I did want to say "welcome" to Rusty, so, welcome. And for Heaven's sake, good luck. Best advice on here is to do your very best to avoid trouble, and make sure you have a reason for whatever you decide to carry.

Stay safe. It's shameful, human to human, how bad it's gotten there.

Oh, and I've got some liberals (er, that's socialists to you) with whom I'd like you to have a word and explain reality. Actually, that's not fair. They come from both sides now; make that anti-rights people!

 

[JaxNovice]

Here is the $64,000 question: What has happened to UK violent crime rates since the ban on weapons (specifically the handgun ban)?

 

[broadsideofabarn]

Actually, that's not fair. They come from both sides now; make that anti-rights people!

Amen. :banghead:

 

[woodybrighton]

Here is the $64,000 question: What has happened to UK violent crime rates since the ban on weapons (specifically the handgun ban)?

the hand gun ban and violent crime have nothing to do with one another period
YOU COULDN'T OWN A HANDGUN FOR SELF DEFENSE SINCE THE 1940'S
LESS THAN 1% OF THE POPULATION OWNED HAND GUNS.
THEY COULDN'T CARRY OR EVEN KEEP ONE LOADED AT HOME. so absolutely no effect on crime one way or the other and if the police had done there job hamilton the nut job would'nt have had his weapons

stats on violent crimes make about as much sense as anti gun propaganda .
rise in gun crime is more about semi organized criminal gangs and drugs than the ability of normal people to defend themselves

 

[Fosbery]

Though for the record, violent crime in Britain has fallen quite dramatically since the handgun ban (it had been falling for two years previously), but at the same time deaths and injuries from the illegal use of handguns has doubled.

Odd_Job,

I wouldn't worry about using broadheads. There's nothing illegal about them or about keeping them in your home for the purposes of defending yourself. What type of ammunition used might only become an issue if it went to trial, which is unlikely, or if one of the officers who came into contact with you was a crossbow/archery nut, also unlikely. That might make it more likely to go to trial but they can't convict you of anything for it. So long as you feared for life and limb and didn't have any illegal items, you're in the clear.

 

[Dirty Bob]

If you didn't want to use a broadhead, I think I'd use a small game blunt or a field tip. The field tip might go through bone, and an arrow or bolt sticking out of a person almost certainly would have a psychological impact on them. On the other hand, a field tip might well give a through-and-through penetration, while a blunt would transfer all of its force into a small area. The blunt would not likely be fatal, though, unless the person was hit in the head or neck, although it might break a bone and would give the world's most spectacular welt and perhaps some penetration, depending on the strength of the crossbow.

If you do get a crossbow, practice chest or shoulder cocking, where you place the butt against yourself and haul back on the string. I can do this with a 150 lb. bow, but not with anything stronger. It's not a lot of fun, but it's a lot faster than using a stirrup or cocking device.

You should also practice! Target archery of any flavor is a lot of fun, and a good excuse to get outdoors. Membership in a club would also help explain the crossbow, and it would give you greater confidence in your abilities.

All my best,
Dirty Bob

 

[Warren]

How about a spear gun? That way you can grab the line and yank the dude about if he is still trying to rush at you.

 

[doc jake]

It’s been said many times in other postings on here, but basically it’s what you have between your ears not in your hands that matters most.

I travel every week to major cities in the whole of the UK as part of my job. Because I’m a Northumbrian (Boarder County) I refuse to pay for expensive hotels, this means I see the more “interesting localities”, If it looks wrong walk away.

In all the case’s stated in this discussion so far death or serious injure only occurred when the victim confronted multiple goblins in defence of property or honour. Personal I don’t consider these good enough reasons to risk my life. I have general plans for getting out of trouble when travelling alone and with my family and yes we have discussed / practised them.

It could be my age, but I regularly carry a key chain, min-mag light (just bought a surefire but not carrying it in case I drop it) Leatherman tool and have never had a problem with the police.

 

[feedthehogs]

It seems its already been established that a shot gun is easy to get and use for self defense in the home.

Beyond the home carrying something that they would designate as an offensive type of weapon is illegal.

Over here sissors are a common item. My wife and both daughters carry a pair in their purses for cutting threads that could pull out stiching on a garment and for general purpose. What about that?

Anyone with a job that requires any type of repairs usually has a tool belt. Screw drivers work well as a weapon.

My dad wore a pocket protector with a 4" phillips and flat blade screw drivers clipped on. A 4" poke to the eye will render someone out.

A metal pen and pencil set, ie cross, in the pocket protector makes a nice weapon also.

This along with some self defense training would work well to defend most attackers.

There is no magic solution.

 

[Odd Job]

@ Fosbery

Hmmmm, I need to check the laws again, somehow I was under the impression that broadheads are taboo.

As to whether the tip is blunt or not, I guarantee that even a completely filed down tip will penetrate a human (at least it will if fired from my crossbow). There is no such thing as a less-lethal bolt from that bow, unless you are talking about chilled liquorice sticks. Crossbow bolts have impressive penetration.

As to the guy with the speargun suggestion: they don't do very well out of water. Don't ask me how I know, I just know.

 

[woodybrighton]

broad heads are available for cross bows but not proper bows
rubber tip blunts are available

 

[Fosbery]

On a more practical note, re defense on the street--how about a small jar or box, or two or three, of finely powdered Cayenne pepper? A faceful of that should be almost as effective as pepper spray, no?

You cannot carry ANYTHING for the purpose of being a weapon. If you happen to be carrying some cayenne pepper, then yes by all means use it as pepper spray... but can you prove to a policeman that you were not carrying that jar of pepper specifically to throw at people?