I want to start reloading .223 and need some basics

[Schwing]

I have reloaded handgun calibers for years but just purchased my first AR15 (.223). I plan to start reloading for it. I would like some input. Please keep in mind that this will be for fun. I don't shoot rifles much (more of a handgun guy) but I do intend to keep it for castle defense if that day ever comes.

Nearly all of my dies are lee so I plan on getting the 4 die steel set. I would consider something else if you all think there is a good reason to do so.

For brass, I was planning on once fired, something like this:

http://www.oncefiredbrass.com/federal223remf-ccrimp.aspx

I understand that I will have to ream out the primer pockets. Any reason this is a bad idea for brass? Anyone have a better source for inexpensive brass?

I have an e-zee trim and plan on just using a .223 pilot chucked in a drill press to trim. I am guessing this will get tedious but I will not have a huge round count on in this caliber. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

For powder, I have zero preconceived notions. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

For bullets, I want to go inexpensive but not garbage. I was thinking something like this:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...diameter-55-grain-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail

Once again, suggestions welcome.

I have a huge cache of primers but no rifle primers so I will be looking for a good deal on some small rifle primers too.

 

[X-Ring]

Because all auto loading rifles should always have the brass full length sized, you will be buying a neck sizing die you should not be using. Unless you also have a bolt action rifle the 3 die set would be better/ less $.
Those bullets will be just fine. I like Varget powder but it is still difficult to find. BLC (2) works good for me, but others have had issues with it.

 

[Schwing]

Because all auto loading rifles should always have the brass full length sized, you will be buying a neck sizing die you should not be using. Unless you also have a bolt action rifle the 3 die set would be better/ less $.
Those bullets will be just fine. I like Varget powder but it is still difficult to find. BLC (2) works good for me, but others have had issues with it.

Thanks for the info. Is it the Collet Neck sizing die you are referring to as not really being necessary? What do you use for a powder through/expanding die? Forgive my ignorance but this is my first foray into bottle necked cartridges of any kind.

 

[Axis II]

FL die for AR.

you can get a lee rifle charge die which is similar to the powder through die/expander you referred too. your lee auto drum or lee auto disk mounts on that or you can use the lee funnel.

I have used h335 and benchmark in my 223 bolt guns and benchmark shoots 5 in one hole, h335 shoots okay too.

cant help with primers as I don't load ar-15 so don't want to give wrong info.

bullets. midsouthshooterssupply.com has 55gr bullets a lot cheaper.

 

[hdwhit]

Anyone have a better source for inexpensive brass?

I don't know about them being "better", but practically everyone sells .223 Remington brass. I have had good luck from these two:

http://www.leobrass.com/brass/

http://www.aardvarkreloading.com/brass.html

I have also bought bullets, but not brass, from:

http://www.evergladesammo.com/brass/rifle-brass.html

http://www.americanreloading.com/en/

Most places that sell once-fired brass determine the count by weighing the brass. Due to variances in the weight, that may leave you short a few rounds. The sellers try to make up for this by weighing out slightly more, but my experience has been that I usually end up with a short count (i.e. 244 rounds when 250 were supposed to have been sent, etc.). LEO and Aardvark have never shorted me on brass.

 

[hdwhit]

I understand that I will have to ream out the primer pockets. Any reason this is a bad idea for brass?

Military brass has the primer crimped (i.e. uniform pressing of the case around the perimeter of the primer) or staked (i.e. three or four discrete deformations of the case around the perimeter of the primer). These have to be removed in order to insert a new primer. All the equipment makers have at least one system for doing this that involves either swaging (i.e. pressing the brass out of the way) or reaming (i.e. cutting brass out of the way). RCBS makes an elegant swage system that will press out the crimp. Personally, I use a Hornady hand-held primer pocket reamer that I got on Amazon for about $10. Note that a primer pocket reamer is different from a primer pocket uniformer.

Removing the primer pocket crimp by either swaging or reaming does not hurt the brass.

 

[hdwhit]

For bullets, I want to go inexpensive but not garbage.

If you're not particular what you shoot for plinking, consider buying bullets pulled from disassembled ammunition.

http://www.americanreloading.com/en/72-223-556-projectiles

http://rmrbullets.com/product-category/bullets-for-reloading/bullets-for-reloading-224-5-56mm/

If you shoot for extreme accuracy (i.e. five shots, one hole), then you will need to load your practice ammunition with the same stuff you will shoot in competition. But, if you are only shooting at deer and milk jugs at distances under 200 yards, "pulled" bullets can be a comparatively inexpensive way to load quality bullets.

 

[hdwhit]

Also, I would suggest that you look at all the manufacturers' dies before you make a final choice. The difference in price between manufacturers is likely to be around $20 or $30 and when you consider you'll own your dies for the rest of your life, that's a small price to pay for something that really works for you.

For example, Lyman makes a .223 Remington die set with a carbide expander ball that eliminates the need to lubricate the inside of the case neck. Even though I mostly have RCBS equipment, that's a convenience I found worth a few extra dollars. Lyman makes conventional dies sets as well, so make sure you're buying the set with the carbide expander ball.

 

[Axis II]

I order brass from brassbomber.com. all LC or Win once fired from the military and its cleaned, swaged, deprimmed.

ive used about 200 cases so far and im pretty happy. prices are decent also.

there is also a facebook reloading page that guys sell stuff but I tend to stay away from that because its paypal friends and family and you really don't know for sure how many times it was fired, etc.

500pc 223 cases from brassbombers ran me $55 shipped for LC brass.

 

[rg1]

For military once fired brass I highly recommend to buy LC - lake city once fired. It does have a crimped primer pocket. I use RCBS's primer pocket swaging die used with the RCBS RockChucker press. Best tool to remove the primer pocket crimp is Dillion's Super Swage 600. Worth every penny whether you shoot your AR a little or a lot. Your choice of Hornady's 55 FMJ is probably the best 55 FMJ bullet you can buy for price and accuracy. Good bullet to start with and you may want to try some premium bullets later for hunting or match and long range. Buy LC brass, Hornady 55 FMJ's, and Hodgdon H335 powder and you have a great combination. I recommend RP 7 1/2 primers or CCI 450 or CCI BR-4, or their military style CCI 41 primers. All are recommended for AR's with the floating firing pin. They have thicker cups than other Small Rifle primers. DO NOT use RP 6 1/2 primers. Inspect all once fired brass for signs of stretching or cracks. I like Hornady's .223 die set mainly because of the seating die with sliding bullet alignment sleeve. I also have the RCBS 2 die set and Reddings 2 die set. I recommend all three. I do recommend to buy a case headspace gauge and Hornady's set that works with your calipers will let you measure how much you push shoulders back.

 

[Jlr2267]

all good suggestions above. I will only add to pay special attention to your choice of case lube and its application. A stuck case can ruin your day.

 

[RPegram]

My personal favorite bullet is a 55 grain Hornady SP. I personally think they are more accurate than a FMJ. The best deal I've found is Graf and Sons. The shipping makes the difference at $7.95 per order.

 

[mamanes]

Check out Rocky Mountain Reloading for bullets. I've been using 55 gr Sierra SBT or RMR FMJ BT (much cheaper) and H335 with CCI 400 primers. The only thing I have reloaded so far is some Hornady factory brass that I shot.

 

[mamanes]

oops.

 

[entropy]

If you are loading for a bolt, FL dies are fine. If you are loading for a semi-auto, small base dies will ensure function. I load using SB dies for all my .223 loads, as they may be shot from my Axis or my son's AR. Some swage primer pockets, I just hit 'em with the deburring tool for a few seconds. As for powders, I like BL-C(2), Power Pro Varmint, Varget, IMR 4064, and IMR 3031. I prefer 55 gr. bullets, I use Nosler Ballistic Tip Varmint and V-Max for deer and coyote. I bought 1000 Armscor bullets pulled from M193 some time ago, I still have a few left, but use Hornady 55 FMJ for load development. For primers I prefer CCI.

 

[hdwhit]

...pay special attention to your choice of case lube...

Amen.

 

[hdwhit]

For military once fired brass I highly recommend to buy LC...

rg1, please explain why you are recommending to the OP that he prefer LC headstamp brass over others. Is this recommendation based on good past experience with LC brass or is there some technical reason you regard LC brass as superior?

Also, are you recommending the OP buy LC brass exclusively, or only when the price difference between LC and other headstamps is negligible?
For example, one seller is currently offering LC brass at $70 per thousand, Federal brass at $60 per thousand or mixed headstamp at $50 per thousand.

• Are you saying that the OP should pay the additional $20 to get the LC brass?
• At what point would you say the price difference is too much?

I ask all this because the reasoning and experiences behind your recommendation is going to be more important to the OP than just the fact you prefer one headstamp over another.

 

[rg1]

I recommend Lake City brass from past experience. It's consistent, primer pockets are uniform and do not expand after multiple firings, resizes easily, case heads are not soft, good annealing and does not show split necks after multiple firings without annealing again. Case rims hold up better than some others without major extractor cuts and bent case rims. Different lots of different year headstamps don't differ much in weight. Sorted by weight cases gives very good accuracy with match loads. It's simply the most recommended military once fired brass by a wide margin. Worth the extra cost if there is any extra cost for only LC and avoiding mixed brass lots. After buying several lots of military brass over the years LC once fired shows less damage than most others. Don't recommend range brass being sold as it will contain many different brands in various conditions with a good chance of many multifired cases in the batch. You know LC and others are once fired with a crimped primer pocket. As with any purchased fired brass they all need to be closely inspected inside the case for stretch marks as you will find a few per thousand of any brass that should not be reloaded. I would pay more for LC once fired and if it's $20-$30 more per thousand it's worth the increase. I wouldn't buy processed cases though and would not pay more for processed brass. Rather do the case prep myself. I set my resizing die by case headspace gauges to push the shoulder back a measured amount. Mixed brass with different compositions of alloys vary in thickness and hardness of the neck-shoulders. Mixed brass you will get varying headspace measurements while LC brass even in different years all size the shoulder back consistently and close to desired measurements. Mixed brass often you may have to adjust your sizing die for different brands. Just helps to keep things consistent plus you'll get better accuracy using one brand of brass and easier to load and LC brass fills the bill for plinking or match loads. It's not Lapua or premium brass but sorting and case prep will give you excellent results. Just a note about new LC brass I've bought with 2012-2013 or later year headstamps, the new LC has stab crimps rather than ring crimps. While I prefer the old ring primer crimps the new stab crimps are easier to swage and probably easier to cut the crimp but I only swage. Cases are the same and only a different crimp. Stab crimps sometimes leaves a little raised brass where the crimp mark is but not a major concern.

 

[thomas15]

I'm curious.

A question that never gets asked and hence never answered is "how do any of the other (non Lee) die makers/suppliers who charge roughly twice as much as Lee, some considerably more, stay in business".

For example:

Lee 4 pc die set $12.00 per die http://www.midwayusa.com/product/628930/lee-ultimate-4-die-set-223-remington

RCBS 2 pc small base die set $22.00 per die http://www.midwayusa.com/product/62...base-2-die-set-with-taper-crimp-223-remington

Hornady 2 pc die set $18.00 per die http://www.midwayusa.com/product/440144/hornady-custom-grade-new-dimension-2-die-set-223-remington

Redding 3 pc die set $26.00 per die http://www.midwayusa.com/product/307180/redding-deluxe-3-die-set-223-remington

Lyman 3 pc die set $22.00 per die http://www.midwayusa.com/product/77...et-with-carbide-expander-button-223-remington

Dillion 3 pc die set $54.00 per die
http://www.dillonprecision.com/dillon-carbide-rifle-dies-individual-three-die-sets_8_4_24498.html

The traditional saying about tooling is that you get what you pay for. Is it then true that in the particular case of handloading dies you do not get what you pay for? Is it a situation where if you pay more money you get less quality or the less money spent buys more quality? Why would anyone buy anything other than Lee dies? What is the thinking? Do they just like to waste money or brag about their dies? Someone must know the answer to this question.

Of course the same could be said about other tools like case trimmers.

 

[X-Ring]

Lee dies are adequate, but definitely not higher quality than the others. I have a set of Dillon 223 dies and they make my Lee set look like trash. Lee dies don’t even have a carbide expander ball, just rough unpolished steel.
Buy yourself a set use them and compare, then you won’t have to ask.

 

[hdwhit]

Thank you, rg1.

I appreciate your willingness to share the experiences that have helped form your opinion and I'm sure the OP will benefit from it as well.

 

[hdwhit]

..."how do any of the other (non Lee) die makers/suppliers who charge roughly twice as much as Lee, some considerably more, stay in business".

I have dies from Lee, RCBS and Lyman so I can't speak to Hornady, Forster or Redding's products, but from my experience with what I do have, the price difference is reflected in the product.

My first Lee dies were their "Speed Die" for .38 Special and .45 ACP. The Speed Die was a single die with a screw-in resizer ring that was designed for low volume reloaders. At the time I bought them, I intended to reload roughly 650 rounds of .38 Special and 500 rounds of .45 ACP during the rest of my life, so the lack of features was less important than price.

Similarly, when I started reloading 9mm, I anticipated loading a few hundred rounds for myself and then turning them over to a friend, so again price was a consideration. I have been less than satisfied with the Lee dies. The expander is touchy; an eighth of a turn moves the expander from no expansion to making the case mouth look like a blunderbus. The seater die doesn't always get the bullet lined up so the case mouth - even when it is belled like a blunderbus. I expect to give the Lee dies to my friend with appropriate warning and go get a set from RCBS, Hornady or Lyman. So, I would say that at least part of the answer to your question is people like me who have bad experiences with Lee are what is keeping the other manufacturers in business.

 

[cfullgraf]

A question that never gets asked and hence never answered is "how do any of the other (non Lee) die makers/suppliers who charge roughly twice as much as Lee, some considerably more, stay in business".

I have not bought any Lee die sets in 20 years or so, so the price differentials may have changed bit.

When I was buying Lee dies, primarily pistol die sets, I would replace the lock rings with a style that I prefer, and I would replace the storage box with a die box that fit my shelf space. The dies performed to my expectations once "modified".

By the time I purchased those replacement parts, I usually spent as much as if I bought a set of RCBS dies which did not require any changes.

Add in the aggravation of having to buy the rings and box and frequently having the parts out of stock, it was just more convenient to buy the die sets complete assembled the way I preferred.

Then, for some applications I buy dies with features not offered by Lee. Features such as bushing sizing dies and micrometer seaters.

I see this as similar to why Mercedes Benz stays in business when a Kia will also get you there but for lower capital cost.

 

[kitsapshooter]

ok go

 

[entropy]

I have Lee dies for the calibers I'm not loading for accuracy, such as .45LC and 7.62x39. For .223, .30-06 and others, I use RCBS dies. Lee doesn't make SB dies. (at least not that I'm aware of) The RCBS dies have served me well, some of them almost 40 years.