Ideas that should be explored

[Archie]

We all have ideas, but are not fully equipped to explore them.
For example, most all of us have had an idea for a particular type of bullet, but are unable to fully explore the idea. For some reason, (usually money) one cannot produce the bullet to test.

So this thread is dedicated to those slightly off-center but seemingly reasonable ideas.

Here's my slightly off-center idea.
I have a CZ 527 rifle in 7.62x39mm. How about a 7.62x39mm (+p) loading? There are several bolt action rifles made commercially along the lines of the CZ (essentially a smaller but strong Mauser action). However, these rifles are all limited to the factory loading suitable for use in SKS or AK type rifles.
No. I do not know the pressure limitations possible. I do see from the SAAMI website, 7.62x39mm normally has a crusher test pressure average of 50,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure) [listed on page 12] and a piezo rating of 45,000 psi [page 24]. I am assuming (not always a brilliant method, but seems reasonable here) the pressure limits are predicated on use in the SKS or AK type actions.
I should think the Mauser type action is stronger than that.

Also, consider the precedent. The original .257 Roberts is now available in the .257 Robert +p loading, the Super .38 is really a .38 ACP +p loading, and a number of handgun rounds are similarly loaded. Not to mention the loading data for .45-70 Springfield, listed as 'trapdoor', 'lever rifle' or 'full power'.

So. What ideas do you have?

 

[Robert]

Semi-auto Lewis that fires from a closed bolt. I think an inverted FAL style bcg and gas system could work...

 

[Telekinesis]

Here's my slightly off-center idea.
I have a CZ 527 rifle in 7.62x39mm. How about a 7.62x39mm (+p) loading?

How far are you willing to go for this idea? This is basically wildcatting. People saying “I want a slight tweak of an existing design” and boom! you have the “7.62 Archie”!

There are LOTS of different rounds based off the 7.62x39 case (well actually the .220 Russian case, but that was based off the 7.62x39). Most relevant would probably be the 6.5 Grendel, but you also have a bunch of others like the 6mm Grendel, 6mm PPC, 6mm ARC, etc. I think most of these would be just a barrel swap away.

Most of those are essentially a 7.62x39 case with the body blown out, a sharper shoulder, and a smaller / better bullet. I believe all are working at slightly higher pressures than the 7.62x39 as well. Note that because of the different body taper, these rounds will likely need a straighter magazine than those needed used with 7.62x39, but that may not matter as much if you’re using short magazines.



My personal off the wall idea is trying to pull all the accuracy I can out of an AK (including chambering/profiling a barrel from a blank). Until very recently AK74 parts were unobtanium so I was designing the gun off of the 7.62x39 AKM which meant I needed a round that has improved accuracy potential but still used the 7.62x39 case head and body taper.

Originally I wanted a 6.5mm round, but I found a wildcat called the 6mm Beggs which is a .220 Russian with a 6mm projectile, which is close enough and means I don’t have to build up my own wildcat that would basically be the same thing with a 0.5mm larger bullet.

All signs point to the 6mm Beggs having very similar performance (accuracy potential and velocities) to the 6mm PPC, which would make it a better choice for accuracy than trying to figure out how to design my own wildcat.

 

[Archie]

How far are you willing to go for this idea? This is basically wildcatting. People saying “I want a slight tweak of an existing design” and boom! you have the “7.62 Archie”!

Naw. I want the CZ rifle and safe ammunition to essentially duplicate the 150 and 170 grain velocities of .30-30 Winchester. That has enough sand to function as a clean killing deer rifle within the limits of the round. And about as far as I intend to shoot. I just don't want to get crazy and crack the locking lugs on my rifle.
In short, your ideas sound as reasonable as mine. One could ask 'Why use an AK action?' But then, one could ask me why I just don't get a .30-30? I'm a bolt action type, not a lever type.

 

[Archie]

Semi-auto Lewis that fires from a closed bolt. I think an inverted FAL style bcg and gas system could work...

Are we talking about the same 'Lewis gun' that was fully automatic and mounted on biplanes? I do not see any point in something with that much weight and complication shooting semi-automatic. Then, many people might say the same about my idea. Good luck.

 

[westernrover]

The 7.62x39 case is too small. Many of the loads for it are already compressed. Look at the Grendel or 6 ARC which use the same case and a bit more pressure and basically all the loads are compressed. Suppose you could run pressures as high as 65,000 psi instead of 45,000 or 52,000 -- in a Ruger No. 1 for example. You'd have to go to a faster burning powder with less bulk in deterrent to reach those pressures. Doing so, you'd have less time under the pressure curve. So you'd have a short spike it pressure to reach 65,000 psi, but then the pressure would drop rapidly and there would be less acceleration overall. The slower powders at lower pressure are going to deliver more velocity. What would definitely result in more velocity is a greater mass of powder than the case will hold.

The similar case where pressure could be increased and more powder used to seriously better performance is the .30-30. It has almost 30% more case capacity than the AK/PPU and the pressure is limited to 42,000 psi due mostly to the cartridge's age. Combined with a longer barrel than is typical of 30-30, that cartridge could be seriously woken up.

 

[kwguy]

Portable and practical energy weapons and rail guns. How awesome would that be! And they wouldn’t fit the legal definition of a firearm! That would throw the anti’s into a spiral!

 

[LoonWulf]

What ideas do you have?

lots! mostly bad.....

9x39 527 is on the list of ones im gonna try....
uh....10mm Magnum gp100
....mostly stuff like that.

mechanically I want to try a pneumatic assist pump action AR conversion.

Of ideas Id like to SEE done, mostly Id like to see caseless ammo be perfected, so nothing new or revolutionary there....

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

I think a good idea would be a .308 bullet in a 243 Winchester case, we could call it a 308 Winchester! lol. But for real, I think we have all of the cartridges we could want and need at this point in history. There are so many cartridges that are basically the same, I don't see any room for more. I do however think we should all get together and finally set an industry standard for AR-10 parts using DPMS gen 1 low pattern for everything. (puts flame suit on).

 

[Archie]

The 7.62x39 case is too small. Many of the loads for it are already compressed. Look at the Grendel or 6 ARC which use the same case and a bit more pressure and basically all the loads are compressed. Suppose you could run pressures as high as 65,000 psi instead of 45,000 or 52,000 -- in a Ruger No. 1 for example. You'd have to go to a faster burning powder with less bulk in deterrent to reach those pressures. Doing so, you'd have less time under the pressure curve. So you'd have a short spike it pressure to reach 65,000 psi, but then the pressure would drop rapidly and there would be less acceleration overall. The slower powders at lower pressure are going to deliver more velocity. What would definitely result in more velocity is a greater mass of powder than the case will hold.

The similar case where pressure could be increased and more powder used to seriously better performance is the .30-30. It has almost 30% more case capacity than the AK/PPU and the pressure is limited to 42,000 psi due mostly to the cartridge's age. Combined with a longer barrel than is typical of 30-30, that cartridge could be seriously woken up.

You may have a point.
I currently have a load that seems safe and develops about 2200 - 2300 fps with a 150 grain bullet. Actually, that's sufficient. I think it may be greater than the SAAMI standard, but not markedly so. It extracts without fuss and shots well. At the same time I do wonder about the SAAMI standard pressure.
And the case is full. Real full. So I've thought about a faster (just a hair faster) powder to boost chamber pressure. But I don't want to get too crazy and screw up my rifle. I will, for now, just have to settle for what I've got.

But that is the point of this thread. Knowing what I don't know now without damage.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Since I find myself hunting in straight wall areas that require a 1.8” case length and I like lever guns, I have an idea related to that.

Take a 35 Remington and straight wall it and trim to 1.8”. More or less a 44 cal (.429) bullet will fit in what is left. Might need reaming or whatnot. From there, it is a simple matter of rebarreling or reboring an existing 35 Rem Marlin 336 and chamber reaming. The new cartridge would have a slightly shorter nominal OAL than the 35 Rem so should feed and function with little internal modification.

Keep pressures around 35 Remington levels and a 240 gr bullet should be able to get to around 2300 FPS easily. There would of course be the problem of head spacing on the rim but the details of that have been hashed out before now with the 10mm, 45 ACP, and 450 Bushmaster lever gun conversions being done by Grizzly custom. Those conversions take a massive amount of internal fiddling though and this idea MAY not.

Another solution related to this would be to use a similar existing 44 wildcat called the 44 Mad Max and convert it into an existing 30-30 rifle. The conversion would theoretically be similarly simplistic as the above idea. This is not a new idea though and has been done already. The 44 Mad Max concept was though up a bit before states started allowing straight wall cartridges so it is interesting that this wildcat has not regained some followers.

 

[DarkswordDX]

A flintlock rifle with a break action and a removable chamber, designed to seat modern bullets and use either black or smokeless powder. No need for primers, use any kind of slower powder, and shoot soft-cast spitzer bullets of any grain weight appropriate to the chosen twist. The removable chambers can be pre-loaded with powder and a seated bullet, and inserted like an oversized cartridge enabling rapid fire by flintlock rifle standards. Maybe an automatic dispenser for the priming powder too...

I'm thinking I want to build this for my Master gunsmith title. Been working on the concept for a few months.

 

[NuclearMeltdown]

I know it's been discussed before, but a new production 9mm bolt action would be fun. With a 5 round internal magazine (flush fit for easy carrying!). Or even a tube magazine. Wood stock and peep sights. 16" barrel. About 5 pounds. Nice short bolt throw.

Ruger/Marlin seem like they're the sort to make something like this.

 

[blue32]

Naw. I want the CZ rifle and safe ammunition to essentially duplicate the 150 and 170 grain velocities of .30-30 Winchester. That has enough sand to function as a clean killing deer rifle within the limits of the round. And about as far as I intend to shoot. I just don't want to get crazy and crack the locking lugs on my rifle.
In short, your ideas sound as reasonable as mine. One could ask 'Why use an AK action?' But then, one could ask me why I just don't get a .30-30? I'm a bolt action type, not a lever type.

Sounds like you want a 30 Remington in a modern bolt. I bet you'd be one of a few people in the world to own one if you sourced the brass and had said rifle chambered.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

Portable and practical energy weapons and rail guns. How awesome would that be! And they wouldn’t fit the legal definition of a firearm! That would throw the anti’s into a spiral!

I was gonna say "pulse weapons" but we're on the same page. Problem is .... batteries. And even if we do ever manage to find a chemistry that would allow us to store that much energy in a small enough package to carry ... it would be like carrying a small bomb on your shoulder. If pierced or penetrated it would release so much energy in an instant that it would be like setting off a ton of TNT for example, perhaps more.

My wants are simpler these days. These should be explored.

Modern Marlin leverguns in 41 and .327 Fed Magnum/.32 H&R Mag. (I hope Ruger is listening.)

More shoes made for large people size 16-21 (I wear a 17,18) ... and bigger fitted ball caps.

A pill that prevents women from constantly changing their minds - helps them to think more logically .... encourages them to admit they're wrong occasionally and to say they're sorry .... and also stops them from always having to have the final word and having to always talk about their feelings. The same pill should also eliminate menopause symptoms, mood swings, hot flashes, emotional outbursts and in general crazy thinkin'.

A hydraulic bullet press. One that allows me to purchase precast (lead and copper wire) slugs at a certain weight, and dies for specific bullet designs, in which I can use hydraulic pressure to cold form bullets en masse by pulling a lever or perhaps even automated and electrical of some sort. Maybe even have an attachment that allows me to use spent 22 brass to form jackets and also allows me to punch and prime my own primers with modern primer chemistry rather than the old corrosive mixture.

In other words an affordable hydraulic press, designed and produced exclusively, for shooting and reloading enthusiasts.

 

[Fyrstyk]

A flintlock rifle with a break action and a removable chamber, designed to seat modern bullets and use either black or smokeless powder. No need for primers, use any kind of slower powder, and shoot soft-cast spitzer bullets of any grain weight appropriate to the chosen twist. The removable chambers can be pre-loaded with powder and a seated bullet, and inserted like an oversized cartridge enabling rapid fire by flintlock rifle standards. Maybe an automatic dispenser for the priming powder too...

I'm thinking I want to build this for my Master gunsmith title. Been working on the concept for a few months.

Sacrilege!

 

[Meeks36]

Had an idea for a new type of silencer. Haven’t looked into yet. Not gonna post it. Hopefully one day I can figure out if it’s possible and has anyone done it before. I’m off this weekend so maybe I’ll do some research. Also I hate having fat fingers and posting on a phone.

 

[Bazoo]

I've been wanting to wildcat the 30-30 with a 338 or 348 diameter cast bullet.

 

[Archie]

Sounds like you want a 30 Remington in a modern bolt. I bet you'd be one of a few people in the world to own one if you sourced the brass and had said rifle chambered.

That does make sense. However, The odds of any modern (meaning using a strong action) in such chambering are between slim and none. But that would do for my purposes.

But then I'd have to get rid of the CZ.

 

[Archie]

Had an idea for a new type of silencer. Haven’t looked into yet. Not gonna post it. Hopefully one day I can figure out if it’s possible and has anyone done it before. I’m off this weekend so maybe I’ll do some research. Also I hate having fat fingers and posting on a phone.

I quite understand your last sentence. I get rather confused on a full size keyboard. And I took typing class in high school.

 

[Will Munny]

A double stack 25 ACP that holds 20 rounds and is still stupidly small.

 

[Archie]

I've been wanting to wildcat the 30-30 with a 338 or 348 diameter cast bullet.

Oooh! That sounds interesting. A good heavy bullet at moderate velocities? The hyper-fast faction will never go for it, but it sounds like you could do it yourself without a lot of heartburn.
If I remember correctly, there have been several 'old' cartridges of that sort. Most of them are 'obsolete' due to being blackpowder or made in black powder pressure actions. But the .45-70 Springfield has make a pretty good comeback.

 

[Bazoo]

I got the idea from a wildcat, 35/30-30. A necked up 30-30 of 35 caliber. I have an example in my collection, and the shoulder is very small. It doesn't headspace on the shoulder, granted, it just don't look quite right. And I want to be different.

 

[rbernie]

What ideas do you have?

How about 22CF and 25cal hunting bullets with an SD approaching .30?

 

[blue32]

That does make sense. However, The odds of any modern (meaning using a strong action) in such chambering are between slim and none. But that would do for my purposes.

But then I'd have to get rid of the CZ.

So get the CZ rechambered by a smith or into any other cartridge for that matter). https://pacifictoolandgauge.com/cip...rs-nopix-/5721-30-rem-cip-chamber-reamer.html
Your toughest task, aside from the brass, would be finding a bolt head for the rim diameter.

.... there's always the 338 Federal.