Illegal Immigration opponent creates stir at Cinco de Mayo celebration
- Thread starter Desertdog
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crazed_ss
Member
I guess you never been to Tijuana or Rosarito on Holiday weekends?
American kids are down there partying it up.. guess what their celebrating?
HINT: It has nothing to do with Mexican culture.
It's funny.. everyone says this illigal allien thing isnt about race, ethnicity, or culture.. when it obviously it is. You guys dont know anything about the people celebrating Cinco de Mayo in the park. Yet because they're Mexican you guys have a problem with this celebrating their culture.
Do you guys also take issue with things like Chinese New Year parades and such?
DRZinn
Member
It's about nationality. Celebrating with Mexican flags is a good indication that these people think of themselves not as Americans with ties to Mexico, but as Mexicans. That might not be the case, but if it looks like a duck....
I still think the guy was a jerk, though. I don't think the probability, high as it was, that they were either illegals or Mexicans with US citizenship was high enough for anyone to have tried to provoke them that way.
On the other hand, you can blame the illegals and their advocates for riling up patriotic Americans lately.
joab
Member
The Hispanic community has chosen to make the illegal alien issue a racial issue, not us.
If their holidays get inconvenienced because of their actions so be it.
the guy did not pick someone randomly from the crowd to threaten he returned a threat of violence with a threat of deadly force.
Because sometimes letting your opponent know that you are prepared to follow through is necessary.
I guess he could have just granted amnesty
crazed_ss
Member
Biker
I don't see 20 million illegal Hispanic folk marching in the sreets waving their flag and demanding rights they aren't entitled to. Do you?
Crazed SS
I don't see 20 million illegal Hispanic folk marching in the sreets waving their flag and demanding rights they aren't entitled to. Do you?
Crazed SS
Well SS, there are likely 20 million illegals in the USA and millions have marched in the streets of this country in the last couple of weeks, waving mexican flags. How many were illegal is impossible to determine, but enough were. Throw in their supporters and it's enough. They're demanding rights not entitled to them and that's enough.
At this point in time, if you wave the Buzzard flag in my country, you are the enemy.
Clear?
Biker
At this point in time, if you wave the Buzzard flag in my country, you are the enemy.
Clear?
Biker
crazed_ss
Member
It sad that you think that way.
Down here, the people you call enemies are our co-workers, friends, wives, etc. They even serve in the military.. notice how many here have Spanish surnames.. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/index.html
Down here, the people you call enemies are our co-workers, friends, wives, etc. They even serve in the military.. notice how many here have Spanish surnames.. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/index.html
I have family in San Diego, rode down there a while back and that trip alerted me to the problem. As far as Spanish surnames go, in the local Police log, 20-50 percent of the names are Spanish and the local population is in the 5% range.
Tell ya anything?
Biker
Tell ya anything?
Biker
crazed_ss
Member
Can I ask what in San Diego "alerted" you to the problem?
Were you mugged by someone you suspected of being illegal?
Were you mugged by someone you suspected of being illegal?
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
crazed ss, how many times does anybody have to say, "Obey the law!"? Why is it you want to give a free ride to a bunch of border jumpers, and apparently care nothing for those who've obeyed the law, waited their turn, and have either gotten into the citizenship route or have the Green Card? Why are these people unimportant and border jumperS so important they get a free ride?
When you're taking up for the illegals, you're spitting on law-abiders as though they are dirt.
As a side note, given the jobs competition between illegals of Mexican origin and citizens of Mexican origin, I have a bit of difficulty understanding the support--but for one aspect: Any time there is some political power and money to be gained, there will always be some sort of rabble-rouser(s) out to create a victim group. The rabble-rousers and their propaganda seem to be succeeding in their efforts.
The concept of Fellow Travelers and Useful Tools is nothing new. Agitprop and Dizinformation worked well for the KGB from the 1930s onward. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Kwame Krumah have done well with it, and now it's the time of the Aztlanistas.
Same old deal, different people...
Art
When you're taking up for the illegals, you're spitting on law-abiders as though they are dirt.
As a side note, given the jobs competition between illegals of Mexican origin and citizens of Mexican origin, I have a bit of difficulty understanding the support--but for one aspect: Any time there is some political power and money to be gained, there will always be some sort of rabble-rouser(s) out to create a victim group. The rabble-rousers and their propaganda seem to be succeeding in their efforts.
The concept of Fellow Travelers and Useful Tools is nothing new. Agitprop and Dizinformation worked well for the KGB from the 1930s onward. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Kwame Krumah have done well with it, and now it's the time of the Aztlanistas.
Same old deal, different people...
Art
I rode down that way 6 or so (?) years ago. The further south I got, the more racism became apparant. There were C-Stores in SoCal that wouldn't serve me because I didn't speak Spanish. I came out of a topless bar in Chula Vista (I thought it meant they didn't wear hats, heh heh) to find two skinny Mexicans trying to steal my scoot. I keep my saddlebags with me and inside is a 15" adjustable wrench which I used to discourage the would be thieves and when the Mex topless dancer who watched from the door told the responding cops that I used racial epithats during the "don't mess with my bike" lesson, I was told that I might be charged with a hate crime even though I was justified in tenderizing their thieving, bald-ass heads.
Just one example of many.
I didn't start this war, but I will be one of the ones who finish it.
Biker
Just one example of many.
I didn't start this war, but I will be one of the ones who finish it.
Biker
DRZinn
Member
How about living here? Is that enough?
MTMilitiaman
Member
SO millions of people can sneak across our borders like thieves in the night, by their actions showing their disregard for our culture and laws, then protest their treatment demanding both rights and respect they are not entitled to and have not earned, and asking to not be labeled as criminals when they very obviously are, and this is fine--merely the exercise of an American right on American soil by non-Americans. Yet when a single American does the same in his own country he is tresspassing and those he actually helps pay to protect and serve refuse to protect him from threats of violence by those supporting this scourge of illegal aliens invading his, our, my country...
Did I miss something here? Cause this seems terribly wrong?
Did I miss something here? Cause this seems terribly wrong?
crazed_ss
Member
Where exactly am I advocating giving anyone a free ride?
Please quote me or show me the post.
Where am I taking up for illegals? Where does it say people in the park celebrating Cinco De Mayo were illegals?
Downtown San Diego had a large Cinco De Mayo block party last week. Not everyone in attendance were illegal. In fact, most werent even Hispanic.. Just people out trying to have a good time.. drink some Coronas and have some Carne Asada Tacos. What's wrong with that?
I'm taking up for people who are trying to enjoy their culture in the park. I'm an advocate of "treat people like you want to be treated".. If I was out having a 4th of July BBQ in the park and some armed anarchist came over burning American flags and trying to provoke a shootout, I'd be pretty ticked off.
crazed_ss
Member
That sucks.. but it doesnt sound like your experiences have nothing to do with illegal immigration. The skinny Mexicans who were messing with your bike were probably born right there in Chula Vista.
Sounds like you just had a bad experience.. I lived right on E-Street in Chula Vista.. 8 miles from the border. Never had any such issues. Some businesses speak Spanish primarily, but I've never been denied service because I didnt know the language.
If the lady at the Taco shop says "Algo Tomar?" .. I simply say, "yea, a coke"
Not a big deal.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,709
and, as a former LA county resident
do the (varying) reports stating that upwards of 60% of the folks in County jail, and more importantly, well upwards of 75% of unserved warrants for murder are illegal "visitors"? Of course, this does not include those who are released and disappear...
As a two year resident of the DFW area, I can tell you that a good number of well-publicized crimes (and a good number of less-publicized crimes) are committed by these same "visitors". I am not talking jay-walking...I am talking cop-killing and cases where multiple civilians were killed.
These are not "victimless crimes".
do the (varying) reports stating that upwards of 60% of the folks in County jail, and more importantly, well upwards of 75% of unserved warrants for murder are illegal "visitors"? Of course, this does not include those who are released and disappear...
As a two year resident of the DFW area, I can tell you that a good number of well-publicized crimes (and a good number of less-publicized crimes) are committed by these same "visitors". I am not talking jay-walking...I am talking cop-killing and cases where multiple civilians were killed.
These are not "victimless crimes".
SS...
I had a lot of bad experiences there. I'm white. I felt like a stranger in my own country. I don't speak Spanish and don't feel the need to learn the language.
As a side note, when I told the cops that the would-be-thieves didn't speak English until the end of the "lesson", he responded "They're like cue balls-the harder you hit 'em, the more English you get".
I'm sorry. Do I sound bitter?
Biker
I had a lot of bad experiences there. I'm white. I felt like a stranger in my own country. I don't speak Spanish and don't feel the need to learn the language.
As a side note, when I told the cops that the would-be-thieves didn't speak English until the end of the "lesson", he responded "They're like cue balls-the harder you hit 'em, the more English you get".
I'm sorry. Do I sound bitter?
Biker
crazed_ss
Member
Well, I can sorta identify with that.
I'm black and I only understand basic Spanish.
I bet Mexicans from Chula Vista might feel a little out of place in Idaho.. oh well, this America.. no where is it written that Americans must dress a certain way or Speak a certain language.
I'm black and I only understand basic Spanish.
I bet Mexicans from Chula Vista might feel a little out of place in Idaho.. oh well, this America.. no where is it written that Americans must dress a certain way or Speak a certain language.
50caliber123
Member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
- Messages
- 640
My only fear is that this person becomes the steryotype for the anti-illegal immigration group, of which I am a part of. The sheeple will say through the media, we're all crazy like him and other sheeple will believe it. Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot.joab
Member
Only after the guy chose not to pursue an illegal action
I think that all illegals should be granted amnesty, just as soon as they go home and agree to stop breaking our laws
hube1236
Member
What the heck???
The only thing that scares me about this whole thing is the complete lack of introspection.
It is US that are creating the problem. It is not a liberal or conservatism issue- it is a political issue that neither side will tackle because each party elite see this as an opportunity to either negate the white rural vote, or the black inner city vote. Go to a political forum- such as Moveon.org- and they will discuss how these hard workers "are the key to winning back this country from the fascist regime it is currently under." Or you can go to any GOP senator’s website- except for a noted one, and see how these folks offset the higher wages of union workers and in turn keep inflation down by providing "services all can consume."
Either way- your government is letting it happen through inaction because it benefits them either way. We pay inner city blacks and rural whites not to work through welfare- and get votes- we allow the lower jobs get done without having to pay for them through civic fees and taxes- everyone is happy. Even the media gets to paint them as immigrants or invaders and Biker and SS can call each other "poopy faces."
The fact of the matter is we pay in this country a very high percentage of our GNP to welfare and entitlements- and EVERYONE USES THEM. Doctor's use FEMA checks too. Another fact of the matter is that $54,000,000,000 of untaxed earnings is sent to Mexico every year by our "guest workers." (I thank the Left and Bill Frist for that euphemism) And these people and their employers are not paying health care- nor Social Security regardless of the estimates you will hear on Air America. We are creating the same underclass that we did with the blacks after WWI and WWII. I have 12,000,000 people on welfare (estimated viable for work) that I could have picking lettuce. I don't need Manny Sanchez.
There is a need and they are filling it. There is a demand for their services and it is the "Corporation," to the individual owner needing his stables cleaned out for $5 a piece. It is pure capitalism- it is not an invasion. But we are in a log jam because both sides of the political fence see this as an opportunity to polarize during an election year. "Bringers together" do not win. The far left wants this as it will advance their solcialist agenda of universal healthcare and drivers licenses for all- buying votes, or the far right sees this as an opportunity to incorporate all of these hard working anti-abortion Catholics into the voting to negate the Black's irrational loyalty to a party that has done little for them. In fact- it has been the GOP that has granted the last two amnesties for Mexicans.
So my brothers and sisters, you can hate the Mexicans, but why? It is not about hate- it is about enforcing the law. We have immigrants illegally trespassing in our cities, using our services, not learning the lingo, and pissing in our alleys. We have our buisnesses hiring them (illegally) and creating a need for them walking across the dried river beds. Oh yeah, that porous border is also allowing the drugs and Muslims in that we all fear too.
I would ask that you hold the person in as much disdain that uses illegals to insulate his house as much as the illegals themselves. Realize that it is a problem that crosses the border for Vincenze- he gets 54 billion of raw income in his country, and GW gets to keep McD's happy by not having to raise the minimum wage. We all get to suffer because I am not going to have insurance because I can't afford the $1200 Tylenol- $3 + the 399 unpaid, dispensed Tylenol to the guy that is still working despite he fell from a ladder.
We consider ourselves to be free market capitalists- then go after that ($)&$)( Kennedy, and Schumer, and that closet lib Frist and tell them to stop passing emergency laws at midnight to keep one vegetable in stasis through the Feeding Tube Removal Bill and tell them to prosecute with extreme prejudice those industries that are employing these illegals. First you eliminate the demand, and then you ship 'em home. Third, you evaluate policies like NAFTA that have actually lowered the Mexican ability to establish industries, because of the porous borders, and freer trade. This is not Cali trading with Nevada- there are culture, language, and monetary differences here. Just as we would not give free reign to Luxembourg to wreak economic havoc, why should we Mexico. We helped Japan help themselves. Why are we not doing this with the rural white, the inner city blacks, and now the Mexicans? This world is stronger because of the help we gave to Europe, Asia- even ex-war enemies like Vietnam and growing ever more unfriendly countries like Korea.
Stop blaming the individuals it is every one at the table. Yes there are independent landscapers out there, but there are a 1001 organized drywall crews in New Orleans as we speak. They are making good money and paying some back into the economy- but when they fall off a ladder- it is not the crew paying for it- it's the guy in Wisconsin who works for his money.
Prosecute the drug dealers, prosecute the employers, and stop shopping at Wal Mart.
The only thing that scares me about this whole thing is the complete lack of introspection.
It is US that are creating the problem. It is not a liberal or conservatism issue- it is a political issue that neither side will tackle because each party elite see this as an opportunity to either negate the white rural vote, or the black inner city vote. Go to a political forum- such as Moveon.org- and they will discuss how these hard workers "are the key to winning back this country from the fascist regime it is currently under." Or you can go to any GOP senator’s website- except for a noted one, and see how these folks offset the higher wages of union workers and in turn keep inflation down by providing "services all can consume."
Either way- your government is letting it happen through inaction because it benefits them either way. We pay inner city blacks and rural whites not to work through welfare- and get votes- we allow the lower jobs get done without having to pay for them through civic fees and taxes- everyone is happy. Even the media gets to paint them as immigrants or invaders and Biker and SS can call each other "poopy faces."
The fact of the matter is we pay in this country a very high percentage of our GNP to welfare and entitlements- and EVERYONE USES THEM. Doctor's use FEMA checks too. Another fact of the matter is that $54,000,000,000 of untaxed earnings is sent to Mexico every year by our "guest workers." (I thank the Left and Bill Frist for that euphemism) And these people and their employers are not paying health care- nor Social Security regardless of the estimates you will hear on Air America. We are creating the same underclass that we did with the blacks after WWI and WWII. I have 12,000,000 people on welfare (estimated viable for work) that I could have picking lettuce. I don't need Manny Sanchez.
There is a need and they are filling it. There is a demand for their services and it is the "Corporation," to the individual owner needing his stables cleaned out for $5 a piece. It is pure capitalism- it is not an invasion. But we are in a log jam because both sides of the political fence see this as an opportunity to polarize during an election year. "Bringers together" do not win. The far left wants this as it will advance their solcialist agenda of universal healthcare and drivers licenses for all- buying votes, or the far right sees this as an opportunity to incorporate all of these hard working anti-abortion Catholics into the voting to negate the Black's irrational loyalty to a party that has done little for them. In fact- it has been the GOP that has granted the last two amnesties for Mexicans.
So my brothers and sisters, you can hate the Mexicans, but why? It is not about hate- it is about enforcing the law. We have immigrants illegally trespassing in our cities, using our services, not learning the lingo, and pissing in our alleys. We have our buisnesses hiring them (illegally) and creating a need for them walking across the dried river beds. Oh yeah, that porous border is also allowing the drugs and Muslims in that we all fear too.
I would ask that you hold the person in as much disdain that uses illegals to insulate his house as much as the illegals themselves. Realize that it is a problem that crosses the border for Vincenze- he gets 54 billion of raw income in his country, and GW gets to keep McD's happy by not having to raise the minimum wage. We all get to suffer because I am not going to have insurance because I can't afford the $1200 Tylenol- $3 + the 399 unpaid, dispensed Tylenol to the guy that is still working despite he fell from a ladder.
We consider ourselves to be free market capitalists- then go after that ($)&$)( Kennedy, and Schumer, and that closet lib Frist and tell them to stop passing emergency laws at midnight to keep one vegetable in stasis through the Feeding Tube Removal Bill and tell them to prosecute with extreme prejudice those industries that are employing these illegals. First you eliminate the demand, and then you ship 'em home. Third, you evaluate policies like NAFTA that have actually lowered the Mexican ability to establish industries, because of the porous borders, and freer trade. This is not Cali trading with Nevada- there are culture, language, and monetary differences here. Just as we would not give free reign to Luxembourg to wreak economic havoc, why should we Mexico. We helped Japan help themselves. Why are we not doing this with the rural white, the inner city blacks, and now the Mexicans? This world is stronger because of the help we gave to Europe, Asia- even ex-war enemies like Vietnam and growing ever more unfriendly countries like Korea.
Stop blaming the individuals it is every one at the table. Yes there are independent landscapers out there, but there are a 1001 organized drywall crews in New Orleans as we speak. They are making good money and paying some back into the economy- but when they fall off a ladder- it is not the crew paying for it- it's the guy in Wisconsin who works for his money.
Prosecute the drug dealers, prosecute the employers, and stop shopping at Wal Mart.
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