im an anti w/ questions

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Shall we send James over to DU, or the MMM site, to ask the complementary question? You know "I'm a gun nut, and I want to know why guns are bad?"

We have nothing to lose in a fair exchange of knowledge here.

Owen

PS, I am proud of y'all

PPS, If you are in the Columbia, SC area, you are hereby invited to go shooting. PM me if interested
 
James,
Glad to see you back.

Perhaps the best tactic to guide your brother is to become a gun owner yourself and take a couple of NRA courses together. That way you can become informed in a detailed way and he can get the guidance he deserves as a new shooter.

Here's an invite to the range if you are in the North Louisiana area. The ammo is on me.
 
Xavier said,,,

"Perhaps the best tactic to guide your brother is to become a gun owner yourself and take a couple of NRA courses together."

good idea, shooting can also be a good family sport, especially if you have kids.

as they get older its hard to maintain contact with them. they always seem to have "other plans" i entice mine with a couple of "cool" guns and it almost never fails...

glad to see you came back!

:D

("Xavierbreath" heh heh, duh, now i get it... heh,,,good one :) )
 
One more analogy - homeowners' insurance: I hope I never use it but it's there just in case. No one wants their home burned to the ground to collect on insurance, just like no one wants to kill a man in cold blood to see what it feels like (at least I would hope none of us here).

One more thing: moderators, could we keep this as a float for any new member lurking - lots of good points here.

Thanks
Sheslinger
 
Welcome, James.

If you're anywhere in CT, and interested, the first class is on me....
 
San Antonio

James,

San Antonio Texas area, send me a message, a range day and a meal on me. Several of my fellow classmates have already discovered why we love to shoot so much, its fun.:D
 
Speaking of diverse gun owners, how's this for an example of a person who's pretty far removed from the Bubba stereotype. To that, I can also add that some of the Bubbas are as far removed from the stereotype as well -- I am friends with a few who are erudite and intelligent, and possessed of tolerance and goodwill towards all...and of a few requisite firearms, too.
 
James,

You memntioned you liked Lincoln's quote that no foreign army could take a drink from the Ohio. It is good. No days, that would be the fastest way to kill a foreign army. I work right next to the Great Ohio and I would venture to say the sewers in LA are cleaner. I don't dare spit in the river lest some of the water come back at and hit me!

I think a number of people were beginning to wonder if you were a troll. After 4 pages of reply and no response from you tends to make us wonder. Anyway, glad you came back and proved some of us wrong.

This is a good place to learn about guns and freedom of expression. Gun lovers have many things in common but I am amazed every day by the diversity of opinion on certain matters.

Go to a range, have someone teach you proper safety and have fun. My best memories are going shooting with my father. He taught me gun safety and responsibility. I treasure that time I spent with him. Years later, he taught me how to drive a car. He said a car is like driving a 4,000 pound rifle down the road so you need to be super careful.

When anti gun advocates talk about gun deaths they fail to mention that 10 times that many people die every year in car wrecks. Perhaps HCI should be Hate Cars Inc.
 
James,

Welcome back. I personally would have probably been scared off when the whole village came out to greet me so Kudos to you.

You made a comment about you getting the feeling that his interest in guns was akin to pyromania and you have seen people burned etc.

Those people were burned because they mis-used a tool. Matches are not bad, fire is not bad. Heck fire can be used as a tool or for sheer entertainment like a bonfire celebration. Non of these things are likely to cause mayhem.

Guns are the same way. When used properly they provide a means of self defense, a means of gathering food, a tool for teaching responsibility and the respect for life, an entertainment device that teaches concentration and hand eye coordination and can even be a cathartic experience. I submit that going shooting after a stressful day will de-stress you and help you face the next day with a smile on your face instead of anger in your heart. I personally call this 12 gauge therapy.

Heck I can go shooting to get rid of a headache because shooting causes my adrenaline to rise a bit and therefore blocks out my headache.

All of the above things are much like that bonfire or matches. They are very unlikely to harm anybody. In the case of self defense it is a simple genetic instinct and I submit that if you or your loved ones were attacked you would fight tooth and nail to stop the attack. Not to kill per say but to stop the attack. That is all we gun owners wish to do in that event, stop the attack. Firearms are just the most efficient way of doing this.

Finally about the AK-47 clone your brother has. Hunting is great, self defense is noble etc. and so on. The chances of ever having to use a gun for defense are thankfully pretty small, even for police officers. Of course so is my house catching on fire but I still keep fire extinquishers. So why would he want an AK47 if you can't hunt with it and self defense with it is pretty unlikely?

Let's face facts it is cool, it is fun it is a blast so to speak. When used in a controlled setting like a range there simply is no other feeling like that of blasting away. The smell, the noise, the flash. I am not talking about target shooting I am talking about the simple experience of shooting. It is fun and cathartic. AKs are cheap to shoot, don't have a lot of recoil and look just plain mean and let's face facts that makes them cool.

We gun owners are kind of like little kids with our toys. We like to share, we like to have the coolest thing and show it off and we like to get together to play. We do this in very safe responsible ways and we have a lot of fun and meet lots of people at the same time.

I find it funny that the world thinks all of us gun owners are teetering on the edge of mass murder. I am thinking of getting a safe installed on the second floor of my house and have posted questions here. Since that post I have had no less then four people two of which I have never met offer to help me move the safe upstairs. Not for money, not for fame just because they want to help. I have seen gun owners mail $100 tools to other members of forums just because they needed it. They didn't know that member but trusted that they would send the tool back and they did. That is really what the gun culture is about. It is about community.

I wish the world in general was more like the gun culture. A community where everybody looks out for one another, offers to help one another and is always willing do what they can to give their fellow man/woman a lift. White, black, green, rich, poor it doesn't matter. That is what community is about and that is my overwheming experience with the gun community. Think about it. Does your local community where you live do this on a daily basis?

Sure there the idiots, the rednecks, the jerks and even the crazy killers waiting to happen. But you know what those people are in every part of society.

Ok rant mode off. If you are even in TN drop us a line and we will take you to dinner and show you what a beautiful word plinking is.

Take care
Chris
 
James -- Additional kudos to you for entering the debate logically and taking a few good-natured shots from the great folks here.

One of my biggest fears as a gun owner is people who do not have any experience with guns. Upon seeing a gun, many who know nothing about them will pick it up, point it at you or another person and say "bang". Often with their finger on the trigger. This happened to me once in college and I have never since had a gun out when someone I don't know well is around. A situation very similar to this killed the brother of a high school friend.

One afternoon of NRA training and a trip to the shooting range for all 14-year-olds in the USA would save more lives than anything HCI has done or will ever do.

I say all this because your brother has likely developed an interest in guns without a whole lot of guidance, background or experience. I suggest you do a search on "The Four Rules of Gun Safety" or print out this flier for your brother: http://www.tincher.to/flyer.pdf

An additional rule is to always lock the chamber open to ensure that the weapon is unloaded when handing it to another person.

It sounds like your brother is showing off his collection - probably to inexperienced folks like yourself - so you may want to suggest he get a $10 trigger lock for each gun. Master makes a nice combination trigger lock that has no key to steal or lose. Government-mandated trigger locks are a very bad thing (how do they enforce the law? Periodic checks of your gun collection?), but trigger locks themselves are a great way to keep a gun incapable of firing until ready.

Take advantage of the offers from THR members to go shooting. And bring your brother along.

I'll take the UNDER on James purchasing a fine weapon by Labor Day.:D
 
Give him some time but my bet is pretty soon we will have James posting questions such as........

Which is better .45 or 9mm
Do all .40 caliber Glocks Kaboom

or that perenial favorite.....
1911s vs. Glocks.:what:

:D

James, if you do a search on any of the above subjects you will find that they are the standard beat a dead horse questions here. They are your basic Superman can beat up Green Lantern types of discussions they we all love to have.

Chris
 
I am almost positive, that any THR member would be more than happy to recieve a private message from you, inquiring about some range time.

I know that I personally would provide the firearms, the ammunition, the instruction and the friendship if you were to have a desire to investigate any questions you may have about guns, gun ownership and safety.

Ditto for me 100%!!! I'm in Nor Cal.


-Drjones
 
James,

...P12s final question was/ is pretty unnerving...

James, that question was meant to be disturbing and unnerving. Had you been an average anti-gun member of society, I think that question would have been right on the mark. Since you have now stated that you don’t want to take away the rights of others, then the question was off mark.

Please accept my apology.

Since you were sharing your personal view for yourself, I have another question to pose to you. Again, please don’t take offense to the question. It’s not as disturbing or unnerving. I pose the question to provoke thought, outside of your immediate environment.

As you stated, the first item of effective debate is to understand their position or view. So my position is this:

In my view of a perfect society all law-abiding members are armed as they deem necessary for their own personal protection. This would cause a decrease in the social cost involved with law enforcement. Their jobs would be basically traffic control and to file reports while ordering the collection of the body. This would cause a lot of the criminal elements to choose another path or a cleansing of the gene pool. The choice would be up to them.

I believe that this country was built on the backs of hard work and personal responsibility. Unfortunately we as a country are systematically moving away from this.

Again, please understand, I don’t ask this to instill anger. I only wish to better understand. Since you have chosen to subrogate your personal defense to the local government then I ask:

Why do you choose to contribute to this burden on society?
 
James

Don't worry about cleaning the blood off the wall. You'll be so happy it's not your or your loved one's blood that you won't mind. Besides they have people who will do that for you as it(blood) is considered a hazardous substance. Welcome to the board and join in often!:D
 
THESE are the kind of threads that make this board so DARN addictive!!!

cslinger, you summed up many of my feelings as a gun owner (and an American) in your recent post, in a most eloquent way.. (if not quite as eloquent as Trisha did, in that amazing post!! I think I have re-read that one at least 5 times!)

I am honored to be among all of you.. This is truly The High Road..

Thank you Rich Lucibella, for starting something 5 years ago that has grown to what it has today.. Yes, under a new name, new management, but still with the same TRUE heart, a community of GOOD people..

Thank you Oleg, for allowing this to continue..

Peace..

R
 
Why would anyone need a gun?

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1741

We are who we are, James; people who love and bleed and laugh and cry and have hopes and dreams and love to see children become a triumph of their potential and sleep untroubled at the day's end.

We have, within each of us to some degree, drawn a line in the sand, demarcating an absolute denial to the social predator, to those whose sly hearts would see them become lords and masters over the entire planet - a simple line that resolutely says, "No."

Likely as not, we absolutely terrify the ego-concentric hedonist whose focus lies solely within materialism and instant self-gratification, who rejects any responsibility (sadly, all to often) to community and the Republic - even to family. We speak with so many diverse and unashamed voices with a singular message of personal triumph over the myriad fears demanded we shoulder by the media as 'right,' and ordinary,' completely rejecting their profit-margin oriented mantra.

We go beyond merely standing on our hind legs as individuals, we greet the awakening flow of the iron blood of courage within our veins and walk into the dawning of this new milennium with songs and psalms in our hearts, determined to do the unthinkable, the shunned:

We indeed, will live our lives as "the People."

Why does this matter so much to me, a lesbian, a TS woman, a pagan, permanently disabled?

Because if I can do it, anyone else can - and must have the right!

:D

Trisha
 
I'll add a thought:

The claim that 'guns are for killing people, and shooting at targets is practicing to become a better killer' is imprecise. A gas chamber or electric chair is designed for killing people, and these devices obviously serve different functions than guns. To be precise, a high capacity military-type rifle or handgun is designed for CONFLICT, and practicing with it is being better prepared for conflict.

If I need to protect myself, my family, and/or my freedom, I want the most reliable, most durable, highest capacity weapon possible. The only thing hunting and target shooting have to do with freedom is that they're good practice.

Like many of the people here, I feel a DUTY to be skilled with the tools of defense, just as I feel a duty to be educated on current events and political issues, a duty to speak out against injustice, and a duty to instill the same values in my offspring and, if possible, others around me.

I'll be blunt: When I hear someone tell me they don't want anything to do with guns, I feel the same way as if they'd told me they want nothing to do with books or reading.

And if I may be allowed a little self-promotion, read my novel UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES for more insight into the Gun Culture. You might check out my website too, at www.john-ross.net.

Thanks for asking an honest question.

John Ross
 
John, welcome to THR.

Mind if I borrow your "high capacity military-type rifle or handgun is designed for CONFLICT" line? That's good!
 
Wow, we get Jim Scouten, John Ross, Ted Kennedy.....oops wrong forum.:evil:

Anyway. Welcome to the forum John. I have yet to read your book but it is on my list of to read materials. Enjoy your time at our little oasis of the web.

Chris
 
Well I'll be dipped...John Ross...

Welcome to THR. There's a Henry Bowman here somewhere, so you should feel right at home. You're gonna be inundated with requests for signed copies of UC. I've already got mine. :)

I was thinking how the cream tends to rise to the top in these threads...anyone else notice that Dennis is conspicuously absent?
 
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