Improper proof of residency??

[spelsh]

Went to my LGS today, found a Ruger 22/45 that I was going to purchase. I am a permanent resident of the US since 1993 (Canadian citizen). I had all the necessary documents, driver's license and green card.

I also need to provide proof that I have lived here for the past 3 months. I took my cell phone bills, but was told that they don't prove that you lived at that residence because cell phone bills can be sent to any address?? I didn't have this issue when I purchased my last fire arm last October.

Please understand, this is not a slam at the salesman or the business. The salesman was very honest, very helpful and seemed to be very genuine when answering questions.

I am just trying to find out if this is accurate?

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I'd guess it's up to the business' discretion and they decided to err on the side of caution.

 

[beatledog7]

If I were an FFL I'd require something that links solidly to to a residence, like an electric or water/sewer bill. Or an auto registration. You can't risk BATFE audit failure.

 

[spelsh]

Auto registration?????? Didn't know that applies

 

[JTHunter]

Splesh - auto registration may work in some states, but the best ID is a state issued ID or Driver's license, followed by utility bills (gas, electric, water, sewer) that are in your name and have the same addresses on them over a period of 2-4 months each.
Good luck in getting this cleared up.

 

[natman]

An auto registration is useful for solving a different problem - if your ID has a PO Box on it, an auto registration is useful to establish your physical address.

However, residency is time sensitive; you have to prove that you have lived at an address in the state for the last 90 days. Hence the requirement for three months worth of utility bills. Cell phone bills are often considered too transient, there's no real tie between the bill and the address.

Be aware that this is an area where individual states sometimes tack on extra restrictions. California, for example, will not accept bank statements as proof of residency (no tie to address again), even though they are explicitly mentioned as acceptable by the ATF.

So if you're an immigrant alien, get a solid bill in your name as soon as you arrive and keep paper copies (how quaint!) on file continually.

 

[nyrifleman]

Bank statements have always worked for me.

Also, since you've been a permanent resident for so long you can just apply for citizenship. Yeah, it's north of $600, but worth it (and not just because NICS suddenly gets half as complicated).

 

[dogtown tom]

spelsh ....I also need to provide proof that I have lived here for the past 3 months. I took my cell phone bills, but was told that they don't prove that you lived at that residence because cell phone bills can be sent to any address??

Uhh.........bills CAN be sent to any address, but that isn't your case. Your cell phone bills show your current residence address.....that is sufficient proof of 90 days residency as required by Federal law.

I am just trying to find out if this is accurate?

Absolurely not.
The gun store clerk invented his own regulations at best, a dunce at worst.

 

[spelsh]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I rent with a roomate, and all the other bills are in her name. We called around this morning and they can be sent to any address you desire. Water, electric can both be sent to different addresses.

I thought it seemed a little odd. I guess at this point I will have to shop around to find a price at a different dealer.

Thanks!

 

[natman]

Uhh.........bills CAN be sent to any address, but that isn't your case. Your cell phone bills show your current residence address.....that is sufficient proof of 90 days residency as required by Federal law.


Absolurely not.
The gun store clerk invented his own regulations at best, a dunce at worst.

From the California DOJ website:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/resprf.php

# Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:

1. Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
2. Cellular phone bill.
3. Passport.
4. Pay stub.

 

[oneounceload]

Land line bills also work - but electric/utility is typically the best

 

[bikemutt]

One FFL who knows me well is fine with utility bills, two others in town are satisfied only with mortgage/bank statements.

"Also, since you've been a permanent resident for so long you can just apply for citizenship. Yeah, it's north of $600, but worth it (and not just because NICS suddenly gets half as complicated)."

I hope you are right concerning NICS nyrifleman, I took the Oath of Allegiance this Monday

 

[md2lgyk]

Do you not have a driver's license? That's all I've ever been asked for.

 

[natman]

Do you not have a driver's license? That's all I've ever been asked for.

Proof of residency is only required if you are not a citizen of the US. Like the OP.

 

[Sunray]

"...cell phone bills can be sent to any address..." So can any utility bill.

 

[medalguy]

Sure can. Mine are sent to a PO box. However, this sounds like an uninformed employee trying to cover his butt.

 

[HankR]

bikemutt said:

I hope you are right concerning NICS nyrifleman, I took the Oath of Allegiance this Monday

Congratulations bikemutt. Welcome,

 

[dogtown tom]

natman Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtown tom
Uhh.........bills CAN be sent to any address, but that isn't your case. Your cell phone bills show your current residence address.....that is sufficient proof of 90 days residency as required by Federal law.


Absolurely not.
The gun store clerk invented his own regulations at best, a dunce at worst.

From the California DOJ website:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/resprf.php

# Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:

1. Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
2. Cellular phone bill.
3. Passport.
4. Pay stub.

Uhhhhh.........the OP is not from California for one.

California doesn't run the USA......Federal law and ATF regulations do. And ATF says utility bills, bank statements and pretty much any document showing the buyers name and current address are perfectly acceptable. For a legal alien there is no requirement that the "proof of 90 days residency" documents be government issued.

All this is covered in great detail on every Form 4473 that you fill out when you buy a gun from a dealer. Question 20.c. asks for the type & dates of the documents that were provided to establish 90 days residency.......and the instructions detailing those acceptable documents are found in the instructions on page 5 of the form 4473.


.

 

[Old Shooter]

If you didn't talk to the shop owner you may want to. A salesman may have been mistaken or that particular shop is really running scared and afraid of a Bloomberg attack.

You might have to go back to one of the shops you have bought from previously who know you and work from there.

 

[clutch]

I assume you are working in the US. How about your W2 form. That one indicates federal and state wages along with an address.

Clutch

 

[dogtown tom]

clutch I assume you are working in the US. How about your W2 form. That one indicates federal and state wages and tax taken out along with an address.

Clutch

No good.
An alien needs proof of 90 days residency.

 

[bikemutt]

bikemutt said:



Congratulations bikemutt. Welcome,

Thanks hankr, it was the proudest day of my life, and always will be.

 

[spelsh]

Unfortunately the owner had left for the day and the saleman was unable to contact them. I left a business card with my cell phone # on it and asked him to call me. I didn not get a call back. I will grab a bank statement and cell phone bills with me and just go to a differen't shop. Unfortunately it seems the most logical choice.

As for the statements about attaining citizenship.....I am proud of being Canadian. I am sure most, if not all of you are proud to be American. It's been my choice to maintain permenent residency, and the I do not see that changing in the immediate future.

 

[bikemutt]

splesh, just wondering what a permanent resident of Canada could expect when it comes time to buy a gun? Are their residency requirements? What are the proof of residency requirements?

 

[natman]

Uhhhhh.........the OP is not from California for one.

California doesn't run the USA......Federal law and ATF regulations do. And ATF says utility bills, bank statements and pretty much any document showing the buyers name and current address are perfectly acceptable. For a legal alien there is no requirement that the "proof of 90 days residency" documents be government issued.

All this is covered in great detail on every Form 4473 that you fill out when you buy a gun from a dealer. Question 20.c. asks for the type & dates of the documents that were provided to establish 90 days residency.......and the instructions detailing those acceptable documents are found in the instructions on page 5 of the form 4473.

There is an assumption in this argument that Federal residency requirements trump state requirements in this case. That is not how it works. Federal requirements establish a minimum set of requirements. The states are free to impose additional requirements on top of the Federal minimum and sometimes do. Gun dealers have to meet BOTH Federal and State requirements. As long as you meet Federal requirements, the ATF won't cite you. If you don't meet state requirements the state DOJ inspectors will.

I realize that the OP is not from California and I should have made it clear that I don't think that CA law has any direct bearing. However, if California won't take cell phone bills as POR, then there's a reasonable chance that Ohio might not either. At any rate, there is sufficient doubt that jumping to the conclusion that the gun store clerk was out of line is premature. I realize that feeling superior to gun store clerks is a favorite pastime on gun forums, but out of everyone in this thread, the OP's gun store clerk is in the best position to be familiar with the POR requirements for a firearms purchase by an immigrant alien in Ohio. So perhaps we should suspend judgment pending proof of what Ohio does require.