Insight of a Bull's-Eye

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Well, I've read the Hathcock article, and I saw nothing in it to persuade me that that Gunnery Sgt. Hathcock liked to kill humans. Not that it would matter much to me if he had, given the circumstances in which he was operating; every one of the enemy he killed was one fewer to kill American soldiers. If a sniper wants to be pleased by that, I'll not complain. Hathcock was a hero. There is no other term to describe a badly burned man that returns to a burning vehicle to rescue his comrades. You won't hear any personal attacks on him from me, and I'll scorn those that deliver such attacks, unless they have facts supporting their position. And no, a second hand opinion from some unknown Marine that allegedly served with him for 2 weeks does not constitute a fact. At best it's gossip.
I've reviewed the FAL File threads Eric Bryant refers to above. While I concur with his assessment, out of deference to Justin I will not use the "T" word. I probably won't be back on this thread, though, as the originator is going onto a very short list.
 
thereisnospoon


1. What was the purpose/goal of this article? to get my opinion out.
2. What are your professional qualifications? (This is merely a curiousity as one does not need professional qualifications to pontificate on THR).Why is this relevant?
3. How many animals have you harvested in your lifetime? thousands
4. Have you ever shot in any type of firearms competition(s)? other than turkey shoots, no
5. Why did you feel compelled to bring this article to THR as your first post? The same reason I'm compelled to read your response . Also, I'm working on a book that this article will be one of the chapters.
 
Swamp Fox,

Well Eric ,you evidently didn't read where after this guy continuously tried to sale me on this practice, that I finally said he wasn't listening,
Click to expand...

Actually it is you who isn't listening. Dry firing is an accepted method of training and if common safety rules, The Four Rules, are followed is perfectly safe.

because if I could and was commander-in-chief of this country ,
Click to expand...

I have a feeling you'd be pretty lonely. Even if you were CIC you couldn't.

I'd give an order that said , any soldier that advocates this practice( Dry Firing) to the civilian population will be stood in front of a firing squad and shot for disobeying orders.
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As Commander In Chief, I would have thought you would have heard of the Constitution, The Bill of Rights and especially The 1st Ammendment. Then there is also the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Not to mention all of the laws against murder.

But it doesn't matter, you as CIC wouldn't be able to pass the law against Dry Firing anyway and even if you did no one in the military would ever try to enforce it.

I also doubt you would be CIC long enough to suggest it much less pass it.

I have devoted all of the time, and more, that you deserve. You have a right to believe and say what ever you want. I have the right to add you to my "Twit Filter".

Have fun.
DM
 
Tim Burke
"he told the Post reporter that he "did enjoy it once. And it scared me. Bad."
 
Thank you for your responses, although I see you took umbridge with question 2. As I sated, it was merely a curiousity, more than anything, but your response answers my question in and of itself.

Now to the issue at hand, which I believe is dry fire training.

Most of the people who advocate this are professionals, who either have been or are current State, National or World Class Champions in their respective sport...guys like Jeff Koenig, Dave Sevigny, Rob Latham, et al.

I might add that even Col. Jeff Cooper, who, like him or not, is considered an authority on the subject of all things gun, advocates dry firing your hunting rifle in front of the tele while watching your favorite soap opera, to practice bolt and trigger work.

I think those folks have a might bit of clout behind them...
 
Well Mr. Double Maduro senior member , every time I read a response like yours I ask myself one question, what is this guy trying to sell.
 
I can still hear the Master Chief Gunners Mate from 30 years ago, "You go back there and DRY FIRE that weapon and don't load it again until you think you can shoot a clean target!" (or words to that effect)

Worked just fine for ME!

to the best of my knowledge Sgt. Hathcock spent the remainder of his life trying to drink the ghosts and the pain from his burn scars away.
 
Swampfox,

I don't care if the good Gunny got wood everytime he put a VC or NVA officer in his sights.

The fact that he fought for his country, performed better than almost everyone in his field, and risked his life the way he did to save his comrades places him very high up in my book of heroes

After you go out and get 93 confirmed kills, have very high bounties placed on your head by the enemy, and save your fellow soldiers while being severly burned, then I will listen to you, and give credence to what you write.

But to come on here, and on your first post start disparaging the memory of a man who fought and almost died for his country, simply because your brother didn't like him, and because he enjoyed shooting the enemy, that is just poor form.

I would say welcome to the forum, but I wouldn't really be able to mean it. :cuss:

I.G.B.
 
sf,

What am I trying to sell?

I am trying to tell you what I think of you in terms that most people of average intelligence would understand and that won't get me kicked off these forums.

You came here and made some rediculous statements about things you obviously feel strongly about but don't understand and when people try to explain and reason with you you ridicule them.

You, and your rediculous opinions are worthy of no more of my time.

Goodby

DM
 
Well thereisnospoon , with all due respect to the gentleman you just named , they don't know anything I need to know about firearms.
 
Dear Mr. SwampFox:

1) DM is selling truth.
2) Since when, when following the four sacred rules, is dry firing dangerous?
3) Modern and commercial bolt actions have a part inside them, on the order of 55 - 60 on the c scale, called a dry fire stop.
-- So how is this dangerous to person or property?
-- Why is this even an issue?
 
One could easily draw the conclusion that there is no danger in the practice of dry-firing and therefore philosophically take the position this it is not a safety issue. However, there is no evidence that those who practice good marksmanship prior to the modern-day term called sniping ever needed to dry-fire their firearms to make a bulls-eye. Furthermore, even folks like Fr. Frog's Shooting Pages or Mr. Jim Owens himself that advocate this practice points out there is indeed a safety issue at stake . What's even more disturbing some folks like Mr. Ed Skinner advocate this practice, but then add a disclaimer that says and I quote " I must, therefore, disclaim all warranties and responsibilities for the Trash Can Snap Cap for any purpose whatsoever."


"Sight Alignment, Trigger Control and the Big Lie" - By Jim Owens
http://www.jarheadtop.com/chapters.htm

Dry Firing Practice By Fr. Frog's Shooting Pages
http://home.sprynet.com/~frfrog/safety.htm

Article by Ed Skinner
http://www.flat5.net/trashcansnapcap.html
 
See gentleman , the problem is some folks took what Mr. Hathcock have to say on the matter out of context and therefore we now have a new civilian training program.

"Has Hathcock used dry-fire much as a training tool? "No, we don't. Sometimes, we get a few problem students, and then we'll have someone designated to go out and teach 'em snapping in."
 
Well Mr. Double Maduro senior member , every time I read a response like yours I ask myself one question, what is this guy trying to sell.
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Double Maduro isn't attempting to sell anything. On the other hand, you've already stated that you intend to incorporate your "article" into a book. One would presume that you intend to sell said book.

However, there is no evidence that those who practice good marksmanship prior to the modern-day term called sniping ever needed to dry-fire their firearms to make a bulls-eye.
Click to expand...
And they all shot groups just as tight as David Tubb, Lones Wigger, Ruby Fox, or any other modern competitive shooter, right?

Furthermore, even folks like Fr. Frog's Shooting Pages or Mr. Jim Owens himself that advocate this practice points out there is indeed a safety issue at stake .
Click to expand...
Oh, for heaven's sake. Of course there's a safety issue with dry-firing. Triple-check the firearm to make sure that it doesn't have either a cartridge in the chamber or a loaded magazine, follow the four rules. That's hardly a recipe for disaster.

What's even more disturbing some folks like Mr. Ed Skinner advocate this practice, but then add a disclaimer that says and I quote " I must, therefore, disclaim all warranties and responsibilities for the Trash Can Snap Cap for any purpose whatsoever."
Click to expand...
A standard legal disclaimer hardly makes a major safety issue. Thanks for the link, by the way. I'm going to have to try that out, as I have indeed found that the .22 snap caps on the market really are not what I want.
 
Your welcome for the link, Justin . And oh BTW , I've been working on this book for over two years now , probably in all likelihood I still have several years ago. I am however proud of fact that both of my two articles have been published, one in nine different national hunting magazines. So yes, someday I'd like to sell you a copy.
 
Are you telling me that the opinions of men who are considered pre-eminent in the shooting sports are of no concern to you?

While I may not agree with others in the field of my endeavors, to summarily dismiss those who are considered legends is risky business.

After re-reading your article just now, I really needed to ask yet again...what was the point of the article? I assume the premise is that dry firing is a bad thing, but it ends on such a different note (i.e. Hathcock Hatred) that you really never draw a conclusion, except to state that you can learn to be a killer by going into the armed forces (??????). So is the article about firearms and marksmanship or is it about hating Carlos Hathcock and the military?

Which magazine published this article ???????????? I am really very curious.

I believe I am done here...anything more I say will not persuade you (as it appears nothing anyone here says will) that dry-firing is a viable training technique that can be utilized to shore up . I hope you enjoy your stay on THR
 
sf,

Sorry, for using the contraction of your name but I don't think it is fair to the memory of Francis Marion
( http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1786/swampfox.html?20057 )to sully his good name by linking it to yours.

I am however proud of fact that both of my two articles have been published, one in nine different national hunting magazines.
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As you should be.

Please tell us which magazines and which issues so that we can check them out.

As a published author myself, I know how satisfying it is when people read your work. I would like to read the other article and see if it makes more sense.

You say in your article reproduced here, that sniping got it's start in the "Civil War". Actually it was a favorite tactic of the Americans during the Revolutionary War.

By the way, it is not a
philosophical weapon
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, it is a very real weapon.

Oh, and this about Carlos Hathcock,

After the war, a friend showed Hathcock a passage written by Ernest Hemingway: "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and like it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway, 1950 Ernest Miller Hemingway (July 21, 1899 – July 2, 1961) was an American novelist and short story writer. ...

Hathcock copied Hemingway's words on a piece of paper. "He got that right," Hathcock said. "It was the hunt, not the killing."
Click to expand...

So you see, you have made errors in forming the basis for your article and your theory. To say that people from the past, long dead, who can not be questioned, would never dry fire, is just silly. To say that the sharpshooters, yes I prefer that term to the indiscriminate use of Sniper by you and others, of those days didn't need to practice to keep their skills up, is ludicrous.

The fact that you chose to share your remarkable insights with us is laudable. The fact that most of your facts are unprovable or untrue, is sad. There is so much true shooting lore available to write about, there really is no reason to invent facts to build an article around.

By the way, when you titled your essay "Insight of a Bull's-Eye" I think you referrenced the wrong Bull product.

DM
 
I can read any number of books and articles in magazines and find nothing but drivel in them. That's kind of what I see here...

;)
 
sf,

While it is laudable that you are published, I thought you meant that your articles had been published in magazines that came out on paper. I see that you never actually said that. I was wondering how your article about dry firing was published in so many magazines, as most publishers want an exclusive before they will print, this explains it.

It is still nice to know that people are reading what you write, isn't it?

Your article about being lost in the wilds of Maine, I found entertaining, although not particularly educational. Anyone who would go off as unprepared as you and live to tell about it is truly charmed.

You should have mentioned to the people who read it in the "Hunting" room here that it was a reprint of an article you wrote and where to see it on the net. They may like to see the magazines that you have been published in.

DM
 
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