Insight of a Bull's-Eye

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Your point?

Look, if one follows the safety procedures one can dry-fire a weapon and refine his skills safely and effectively. I've done my fair share of dry-fire practice with nary a hiccup.

So, if you follow the safety rules, it's safe. If you don't then the possibility exists for an accident.

But your continued harping on these supposed "dangers" of dry fire practice verge on the silly. It's like saying that it's impossible to safely operate a motor vehicle because there's nothing stopping you from driving on the wrong side of the road. I mean, that little yellow stripe of paint isn't going to keep you on the straight and narrow, which means you're bound to get into a head-on collision.
 
Lets take Mr. Jim Owens article where he says and I quote "Wives or girl friends get very upset with bullet holes in the ceiling.", that ended up hitting little John while he's sleeping .
"Sight Alignment, Trigger Control and the Big Lie" - By Jim Owens
http://www.jarheadtop.com/chapters.htm
 
I guess we shouldn't reload because of the possibility of a squib load either, or the possibility of doubling up on the powder.

at one time in the hunting community like I said before, it was a golden rule never to dry fire a firearm for any reason whatsoever
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At one point in time, African Americans were considered 3/5 human. Are you saying we should always adhere to something that is old?

People used to snicker at M16s when M14's were issued, People snickered when magnified optics were first coming out for firearms. We now have 1911 fans hating Glocks. Times change.

If dry firing was such a globally accepted no-no, then we wouldn't have snap-caps, or aforementioned popular firearm experts "Ayoob, Enos, or Burkett" advocating dry firing. But of course, we don't want to introduce anything contrary to your position in fear of turning a one-sided position you've attempted to force-feed down everyone's throat into a debate or argument.
 
I gather from what I read at the FAL files and some of what I have read here that you aren't actually interested in logic or any of our opinions, but in an attempt to attack the arguement and not the individual:

SF wrote:

I go to the rifle range these days may be once or twice a year, normally with my sako 280 . I might shoot nine times but probably only six times
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Then, in regard to the practice of dry firing, SF wrote:

no one here can guarantee that everyone either reading or in this discussion is over the age of 13 , so therefore I wonder how many of you here are willing not only to put your reputations at stake , but also your financial holding that some immature youngster won't follow your advice , make a mistake and end up killing someone?
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So let me see if I understand what you are saying. You recommend taking a gun, loading it, pointing it in a safe direction at a target with a safe background, and pulling the trigger in order to practice. Other people are recommending taking a gun, not loading it, pointing it in a safe direction at a target with a safe background, and pulling the trigger in order to practice.

Now if the 4 rules are followed neither of these scenarios is a problem. But if a 13 year old happen to mess up at some stage in the process, would you rather he do it your way, with a loaded gun, or the dry fire way, with the not loaded gun.

I have a feeling you will ignore everything I just wrote, and just copy and paste something you have written in this thread or one of the threads on the 8 other firearm forums that you joined yesterday, but we'll see. I eagerly await your response.
 
I'm saying that some of you folks are advocating an irresponsible act . Again, are you willing to put your reputations and financial holdings at stake that no youngster will get hurt for following your advice?
 
waterhouse , I'm not advocating anything I need a disclaimer for , so therefore I am putting my reputation and financial holdings at stake, you Sir. on the other hand are not.
 
waterhouse , I'm not advocating anything I need a disclaimer for , so therefore I am putting my reputation and financial holdings at stake, you Sir. on the other hand are not.
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That's OK, I don't want to put my financial holdings at stake. I don't know why I would need a disclaimer :confused:

I will say this with 100% certainty: If you have an unloaded gun and you pull the trigger it will not go bang.

You seem fond of using internet definitions (you mention "trigger happy.")

Here's a definition I found on the internet:

dry firing is training (adopting a shooting position and firing a cocked but unloaded firearm) without actually firing live ammunition

If the gun goes bang, then by definition you were not dry firing it. You might have thought you were, but you were not.

Ergo, dry firing, by definition, can't hurt anyone. If you'd like to argue that not checking the chamber and pulling the trigger is a dangerous thing to do, I'm sure no one will argue with you. If you would like to argue that attempting to practice dry firing with any ammo within 15 feet of the gun is a bad idea, you can win that one too. But there is no way you can successfully argue that pulling the trigger on an unloaded gun (not a gun someone thought was unloaded, but an actual unloaded gun) could be dangerous.

If you could find just one case where an unloaded gun shot someone that would give you a little more credibility. Part of the definition of dry firing involves an unloaded chamber. Anything else isn't dry firing.
 
It doesn't matter to me why he has a disclaimer, I'm discussing what I said, not what he said. Every gun I've ever bought comes with a disclaimer. It's usually right in the front of the manual. If you are so worried about disclaimers please round up all of your firearms and send them to me. Clearly they are too dangerous to have around you, since they have a disclaimer.

Care to respond to what I said?
 
waterhouse, I am curious about something here, have you ever been personally shot at ,or seen another man hit with a bullet?
 
Ok , then tell me why Mr. Jeff Cooper has a disclaimer on his Web site?
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For idiots out there that have no common sense. As far as 13 year olds go, I've seen plenty with enough common sense to figure out how to dry fire a rifle without being unsafe, some of them compete on the national level.
 
Second and foremost , no one here can guarantee that everyone either reading or in this discussion is over the age of 13 , so therefore I wonder how many of you here are willing not only to put your reputations at stake , but also your financial holding that some immature youngster won't follow your advice , make a mistake and end up killing someone?
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So you can point to an incident wherein a child with unrestricted access to either the internet or a library found information on dryfire practice and then located a firearm, commenced to engage in dryfire practice, and as a result shot either himself or another person?

Ok , then tell me why Mr. Jeff Cooper has a disclaimer on his Web site?
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For the same reason that there's probably one stamped somewhere on your hunting rifle.

waterhouse, I am curious about something here, have you ever been personally shot at ,or seen another man hit with a bullet?
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Being shot has zero to do with safe dry-fire practices.

You've already admitted that you shoot maybe 9 rounds per year. In an average week I personally fire nearly 27 times as many rounds as you do in an entire year. We have other members here that make my weekly expenditure of rounds look like drearily intermittent practice.

Yet, for some reason, you, with your 9 round yearly maximum are some kind of self-annoited expert?

The only conclusion I can draw is that you at one point in time caused a tragic accident through ignorant gun handling, or were on the receiving end thereof.

Allow me to put this in the perspective by simply going through the numbers:

Maximum number of rounds per year fired by Swamp Fox: 9
Number of rounds required to compete in a full blown Bullseye Pistol match: 270
Number of rounds required to compete in an NRA High Power Match: 50
Number of lethal force encounters Jeff Cooper has been in: 3
Number of rounds required for a normal 3Gun stage: 20-40

Number of rational arguments Swamp Fox has presented for why dry firing is wrong: 0​
 
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Well with all due respect to Mr. Jeff Cooper, if he's advocating proper safe firearms handling he doesn't need a disclaimer.
 
waterhouse, I am curious about something here, have you ever been personally shot at ,or seen another man hit with a bullet?
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Again, not that you responded to anything that I wrote, but no, I have never been shot at, and yes, I have seen what happens when someone puts a gun to their temple. Before this gets spun out of control, she did leave a note, and she wasn't practicing dry firing, and she did know the gun was loaded.
 
No Justin , I cannot point to a particular incident, however that is not relevant in regards to advocating proper handling of firearms
 
Well with all due respect to Mr. Jeff Cooper, if he's advocating proper safe firearms handling he doesn't need a disclaimer.
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So no dirtbag can sue the Col. after his pistol accidentally goes off while he was doing dry firing practice on a toddler because he read that the Col had advocated dry fring practice, but without the proper precautions aimed at society's lowest common denominator.


Its the same reason why John Deere puts graphic pictures of feet and fingers being dismembered on their mower decks- 1/2 of the population have a below average IQ.
 
So what you're saying is, the good Col. does not exact responsibility for the things he suggest to others?
 
Is John Deere responsible for the guy who decides to clean the wet grass out of his mower deck while its running, warning label or not?
 
So what you're saying is, the good Col. does not exact responsibility for the things he suggest to others?
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Once again, you suggested earlier that it was a good idea to train by loading a gun and shooting it at a target. That was your suggestion.


I will gladly take responsibility for every single person shot by an unloaded gun if you will take responsibility for all the people injured by loaded ones.
 
But waterhouse

"By confining the dry firing to a specific area and target we can help to eliminate negligent discharges resulting from the "one more time" syndrome in which the shooter does one more practice drill but forgets that the firearm is now live resulting in an embarrassing "bang" when one expected a "click." Leaving a designated area and removing the target help to reinforce the notion that practice "
 
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