Actually Double Maduro , it is in print , with several magazines, one of which is called( real hunters) May/ June addition 2004 . Also another whitetail magazine called ( Rub-lines July 2004 addition. Hey, my personal photograph was even on the front cover of two them. Not bad for a guy that doesn't write for a living like some of you boys. lol
Insight of a Bull's-Eye
- Thread starter Swamp Fox
- Start date
- Status
Chuck R.
Member
thereisnospoon
Yup, old Larry’s been a burden on the bandwidth over at the FAL Files too. It’s either:
A. Meds have run out
OR
B. Negative attention is better than no attention at all.
I’m thinking it’s B. brought about by A.
Chuck
Yup, old Larry’s been a burden on the bandwidth over at the FAL Files too. It’s either:
A. Meds have run out
OR
B. Negative attention is better than no attention at all.
I’m thinking it’s B. brought about by A.
Chuck
Again , I have a question gentlemen, is Mr. John Dean Cooper the author of this document?
Dry Firing Practice By Fr. Frog's Shooting Pages
http://home.sprynet.com/~frfrog/safety.htm
Dry Firing Practice By Fr. Frog's Shooting Pages
http://home.sprynet.com/~frfrog/safety.htm
Cesiumsponge
Member
Commander-in-chief? Sounds more like Pol Pot at the helm.
Your reply conveniently avoided addressing my post. The arguments ignore the mechanical aspect. No one in the world can take a Tec-9 or AK-47 and place 3 rounds on a quarter at 100 yards with any repeatability. Anyone using a rail gun capable of .2-.25MOA can shoot 2-4x WORSE than the firearm's maximum potential and still shoot within a quarter at 100 yards. Someone using a milsurp M1 Garand holding 2-3MOA (it's general maximum potential) has more skill than the rail gunner.
Using your line of logic for proving who is professional and who is amateur using the "quarter test", then no one in the entire world is qualified as a marksman. Many firearms aren't physically capable of holding sub-MOA groups (and not expected to as that was never their role).
And then you take off on a "back in my day, 22's were cheap" tangent instead of addressing my example. Your reply to my post has about as much relevence as how many pancakes fit in doghouse, in which the answer is none because ice cream doesn't have bones.
Again , I have a question gentlemen, is Mr. John Dean Cooper the author of this document? Because if so , I'd like everyone to notice this paragraph'
Dry Firing Practice By Fr. Frog's Shooting Pages
http://home.sprynet.com/~frfrog/safety.htm
"By confining the dry firing to a specific area and target we can help to eliminate negligent discharges resulting from the "one more time" syndrome in which the shooter does one more practice drill but forgets that the firearm is now live resulting in an embarrassing "bang" when one expected a "click." Leaving a designated area and removing the target help to reinforce the notion that practice". And oh I'm sorry you're dead , I didn't know the guns loaded.
Dry Firing Practice By Fr. Frog's Shooting Pages
http://home.sprynet.com/~frfrog/safety.htm
"By confining the dry firing to a specific area and target we can help to eliminate negligent discharges resulting from the "one more time" syndrome in which the shooter does one more practice drill but forgets that the firearm is now live resulting in an embarrassing "bang" when one expected a "click." Leaving a designated area and removing the target help to reinforce the notion that practice". And oh I'm sorry you're dead , I didn't know the guns loaded.
thereisnospoon
Member
Hey Larry...
Who is John Dean Cooper?
Why is that relavent to an article you wrote attacking 1) a prominent training tactic, 2) an heroic designated marksman in Viet Nam
and 3) your subsequent responses disregarding the thoughts of not only those you intend as your audience (WE lesser beings at THR) but the majority of the pre-eminent gun writers and shooters of our time...your would be peers as a "writer".
I notice in your last two posts you have totally ignored any questions or comments and repeatedly asked about John Dean Cooper....isn't that shifting the focus just a wee bit?
By the way...operating a firearm is dangerous business...most of us who own firearms take it seriously and your assertion that we are incapable of safely dry firing is insulting to me personally. I have dry-fired my personal defense/competition weapon(s) weekly for the last three years WITHOUT a ND.
I have also placed (i.e. winning a trophy/money) in each competition I have entered in the last three years...dry fire works.
Who is John Dean Cooper?
Why is that relavent to an article you wrote attacking 1) a prominent training tactic, 2) an heroic designated marksman in Viet Nam
and 3) your subsequent responses disregarding the thoughts of not only those you intend as your audience (WE lesser beings at THR) but the majority of the pre-eminent gun writers and shooters of our time...your would be peers as a "writer".
I notice in your last two posts you have totally ignored any questions or comments and repeatedly asked about John Dean Cooper....isn't that shifting the focus just a wee bit?
By the way...operating a firearm is dangerous business...most of us who own firearms take it seriously and your assertion that we are incapable of safely dry firing is insulting to me personally. I have dry-fired my personal defense/competition weapon(s) weekly for the last three years WITHOUT a ND.
I have also placed (i.e. winning a trophy/money) in each competition I have entered in the last three years...dry fire works.
"Who is John Dean Cooper? "
http://users2.ev1.net/~mkreynolds/jeff/
http://users2.ev1.net/~mkreynolds/jeff/
Yooper
Member
If you think dry firing is a poor practice, then, by all means, don't dry fire.
thereisnospoon
Member
From the article you posted referencing "Who is John Dean Cooper"?
If you are serious about big game hunting, here, there or elsewhere, practice your off-hand. Remember that you can do this without recourse to the range. Dry firing does wonders once you have learned the basics.
Anything else....
If you are serious about big game hunting, here, there or elsewhere, practice your off-hand. Remember that you can do this without recourse to the range. Dry firing does wonders once you have learned the basics.
Anything else....
itgoesboom
member
SwampFox,
I think you have managed, in one day, to completly turn off your target audience and and alienate us.
Good Job.
BTW, being published really isn't going to pull a lot of weight with many of us. For what its worth, I wrote several articles for newspapers and had close to 200 photos published by the time I was 21, and I started just before I turned 20. This isn't to poke fun at you, or to say that getting 2 articles published isnt a big deal, but just something to think about while you are patting yourself on the back.
Some advice. Free of charge.
Next time you join a forum, and want to increase your possiblities for articles or books, try not to alienate everyone your first day.
I.G.B.
I think you have managed, in one day, to completly turn off your target audience and and alienate us.
Good Job.
BTW, being published really isn't going to pull a lot of weight with many of us. For what its worth, I wrote several articles for newspapers and had close to 200 photos published by the time I was 21, and I started just before I turned 20. This isn't to poke fun at you, or to say that getting 2 articles published isnt a big deal, but just something to think about while you are patting yourself on the back.
Some advice. Free of charge.
Next time you join a forum, and want to increase your possiblities for articles or books, try not to alienate everyone your first day.
I.G.B.
I must agree with several of the previous posters about the content and direction of the article being confusing and meandering. What was the point? The structure and content were poor. Many articles I read in prominent gun magazines are of the same ilk, so it does not suprise me you've been published. For the sake of us all though, please stick to your day job.
WayneConrad
Member
I am quite disappointed, really. I love radical ideas. I get postively giddy when someone suggests that something thought to be true by most is wrong for some reason that I and everyone else had overlooked. And, when I saw that this article questioned the practice of dry firing, I was excited, thinking that this might be one of those articles with a wonderful "aha" moment buried inside, like the cherry center of a chocolate candy.
Sadly, the article contained no cherry center. SwampFox, if you were to concentrate on the safety issue and support it with a thoughtful evaluation of evidence and antecdote, we'd have something coherent to debate. But you ought to leave out anything and everything that does not directly support your point, such as how someone said someone else likes to kill, or what skills belonged to some long dead people who might or might not have dry fired. And most especially, do not so crassly denigrate such a hero as Hathcock. These things entangle your thesis in a thicket from which it cannot easily escape, and I fear your readers are not up to the task of rescuing it.
Sadly, the article contained no cherry center. SwampFox, if you were to concentrate on the safety issue and support it with a thoughtful evaluation of evidence and antecdote, we'd have something coherent to debate. But you ought to leave out anything and everything that does not directly support your point, such as how someone said someone else likes to kill, or what skills belonged to some long dead people who might or might not have dry fired. And most especially, do not so crassly denigrate such a hero as Hathcock. These things entangle your thesis in a thicket from which it cannot easily escape, and I fear your readers are not up to the task of rescuing it.
W Turner
Member
To THR gang - I just wanted everyone responding to this thread to be aware that the Swamp Fox posting here is the same Swamp Fox that is a regular contributor to DemocraticUnderground.com. In many of his posts there he expresses opinions that come this close to identifying him as an anti.
He apparently doesn't believe that commoners should have semi-automatic rifles or at least that they should be much harder to get (see the links below).
http://www.democraticunderground.co...mesg&forum=118&topic_id=109900&mesg_id=109900
http://www.democraticunderground.co...mesg&forum=118&topic_id=109543&mesg_id=109543
I realize that this is not directly related to the topic at hand, however I do beleive that it provides insight into the character of the topic originator.
To Swamp Fox- Understand that you are on a board filled with people that value the 2nd Amendment AS WRITTEN more than you could ever understand. Most people that value the Bill of Rights are conservative and pro-military. Coming onto this board and disparaging someone like Carlos Hathcock in your first post and expecting support is not a very welcoming or bright thing to do.
As far as the dry-fire debate goes, used safely, it is a valuable tool that can aid shooters in refining the basics of rifle shooting. To draw a relationship between dry-firing and "Sniper" training is a stretch to say the least.
W
He apparently doesn't believe that commoners should have semi-automatic rifles or at least that they should be much harder to get (see the links below).
http://www.democraticunderground.co...mesg&forum=118&topic_id=109900&mesg_id=109900
http://www.democraticunderground.co...mesg&forum=118&topic_id=109543&mesg_id=109543
I realize that this is not directly related to the topic at hand, however I do beleive that it provides insight into the character of the topic originator.
To Swamp Fox- Understand that you are on a board filled with people that value the 2nd Amendment AS WRITTEN more than you could ever understand. Most people that value the Bill of Rights are conservative and pro-military. Coming onto this board and disparaging someone like Carlos Hathcock in your first post and expecting support is not a very welcoming or bright thing to do.
As far as the dry-fire debate goes, used safely, it is a valuable tool that can aid shooters in refining the basics of rifle shooting. To draw a relationship between dry-firing and "Sniper" training is a stretch to say the least.
W
280PLUS
Member
Yea, he got me too...
Cesiumsponge
Member
I don't mind someone examining the life of a hero or great man. Every man has his skeletons, rich and famous, meager and poor. Ghandi and Henry Ford were racist but we celebrate them to this day for their accomplishments. Martin Luther King Jr. cheated on his wife on several occasions but we give him a holiday on the calander. Thomas Edison is an unscientific individual who tried 200+ materials to get his lightbulb to work by random guessing (not scientific at all) but it doesn't diminish his invention or his household name. Many impressive individuals are raging drunks at home or did illegal drugs.
These were all great men who did great things.
While parts of their personal lives might be questionable to many, that doesn't diminish their achievements.
Hathcock likely had his own skeletons, but that will never diminish the countless lives he saved by his confirmed and unconfirmed kills. He did his job, and excelled at it. He went up and above the call of duty by saving the lives of his fellow man while placing his own at great jeopardy. I will continue to celebrate his accomplishments and achievements.
These were all great men who did great things.
While parts of their personal lives might be questionable to many, that doesn't diminish their achievements.
Hathcock likely had his own skeletons, but that will never diminish the countless lives he saved by his confirmed and unconfirmed kills. He did his job, and excelled at it. He went up and above the call of duty by saving the lives of his fellow man while placing his own at great jeopardy. I will continue to celebrate his accomplishments and achievements.
280PLUS
Member
Take me for example!
Oh wait, I'm not that impressive
Andrew Rothman
Member
Swamp Fox, at the Democratic Underground, wrote:
Wow. Okay, we know where he stands.
(Of course, we should also ban Internet speech, and limit free speech to hand-set movable type and soap boxes...)
Wow. Okay, we know where he stands.
(Of course, we should also ban Internet speech, and limit free speech to hand-set movable type and soap boxes...)
cracked butt
Member
I think I've seen this bullcrap posted on a hunting board a year or two ago. As here, the author there pretty much insisted that 'dry-firing' is antisocial behavior and that honest gun owners would not practice such. Whatever
I practice dryfiring my M1 for hours and hours in the winter to keep me in shooting condition for when springtime comes and highpower season starts.
This is a real great apples to oranges comparison.
1. A rifle won't self destruct if you dry fire it.
2. A rifle is going to cost you $0.50 -$1 every time you pull the trigger.
3. You can reuse arrows. The carbon arrows I shoot in 3d competitions cost me about $15 a piece. I can shoot them 50 or more times before I need to refletch them (which costs me about $1 a piece) and they pretty much last forever unless I 'robin hood' a pair of arrows.
4. a properly set up bow doesn't have any noticeable recoil or hand shock, and the noise it makes, though can be fairly loud, is not distrating or painful..
I would take the article seriously if the author actually sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
I practice dryfiring my M1 for hours and hours in the winter to keep me in shooting condition for when springtime comes and highpower season starts.
This is a real great apples to oranges comparison.
1. A rifle won't self destruct if you dry fire it.
2. A rifle is going to cost you $0.50 -$1 every time you pull the trigger.
3. You can reuse arrows. The carbon arrows I shoot in 3d competitions cost me about $15 a piece. I can shoot them 50 or more times before I need to refletch them (which costs me about $1 a piece) and they pretty much last forever unless I 'robin hood' a pair of arrows.
4. a properly set up bow doesn't have any noticeable recoil or hand shock, and the noise it makes, though can be fairly loud, is not distrating or painful..
I would take the article seriously if the author actually sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
cracked butt
Member
LMAO!
It sort of fits, most hunters I know shoot maybe 5 or 6 shots a year at the range.
Even funnier is that he posts this crap on a board where there are people who go to the range once or twice a week and shoot thousands of rounds a year.
Well gentleman , I need to confess , up until yesterday I never heard of Mr. Cooper before or at least never pay attention to who is. Now , from what I understand , he's not only the editor-at-large for Guns & Ammo magazine , but also on the board of directors of the NRA , not to mention author of this article http://home.sprynet.com/~frfrog/safety.htm . And oh BTW, I've never come across a more irresponsible piece of writing in my entire life. This man's , Mr. Cooper has done more to undermine what was once a golden rule. The sad thing is , up until yesterday I was blaming Mr. Hathcock that in reality never endorsed the dry firing practice according to this question and quote . "Has Hathcock used dry-fire much as a training tool? "No, we don't. Sometimes, we get a few problem students, and then we'll have someone designated to go out and teach 'em snapping in."
I
I
Andrew Rothman
Member
Oh, yeah, he's a shooter.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Who is John Galt?
Deavis
Member
Hmmm... Dry firing somehow violtaes the 4 saftey rules?
IIRC....
1) Treat all guns as if they are loaded
2) Never point the muzzle at something you are not willing to destroy
3) Keep your fingers off the trigger until ready to fire at the target
4) Be sure of your target and what is behind it
Funny, I can easily point out that dry firing by a responsible person doesn't violate any of the 4 saftey rules, with or without a snap-cap. Ayoob gave a perfect example of how to comply with the rules in Combat Handgunnery and anyone with a brain can think of other ways to comply. Ayoob's suggestions was to place your dry firing target over a bulletproof vest and hang it on the wall. Preferablly a wall with brick behind it or not facing another house.
1) You are still treating the gun as if it was loaded even though you are a responsible shooter who should be smart enough to tell if it is or not if you are engaging in dry fire practice to improve your skills
2) You never point the muzzle at something you are not willing to destroy because you only point it at your bulletproof backstop
3) Your finger is never on the trigger until your weapon is covering a target with a bulletproof backstop
4) Once again, bulletproof backstop
Wow, that was sooooo tough! Furthermore, if you do the math on snap-caps, you will find that you can usually replace the firing pin for less than you will spend in snap-caps. Go read some Ayoob, Enos, or Burkett and they all cover how to safely engage in dry-fre practice. Not to mention, they discuss some of the advantages of dry firing that CANNOT be replicated with live fire.
IIRC....
1) Treat all guns as if they are loaded
2) Never point the muzzle at something you are not willing to destroy
3) Keep your fingers off the trigger until ready to fire at the target
4) Be sure of your target and what is behind it
Funny, I can easily point out that dry firing by a responsible person doesn't violate any of the 4 saftey rules, with or without a snap-cap. Ayoob gave a perfect example of how to comply with the rules in Combat Handgunnery and anyone with a brain can think of other ways to comply. Ayoob's suggestions was to place your dry firing target over a bulletproof vest and hang it on the wall. Preferablly a wall with brick behind it or not facing another house.
1) You are still treating the gun as if it was loaded even though you are a responsible shooter who should be smart enough to tell if it is or not if you are engaging in dry fire practice to improve your skills
2) You never point the muzzle at something you are not willing to destroy because you only point it at your bulletproof backstop
3) Your finger is never on the trigger until your weapon is covering a target with a bulletproof backstop
4) Once again, bulletproof backstop
Wow, that was sooooo tough! Furthermore, if you do the math on snap-caps, you will find that you can usually replace the firing pin for less than you will spend in snap-caps. Go read some Ayoob, Enos, or Burkett and they all cover how to safely engage in dry-fre practice. Not to mention, they discuss some of the advantages of dry firing that CANNOT be replicated with live fire.
Well gentleman, there's two different things I'd like to point out with one question . First , at one time in the hunting community like I said before, it was a golden rule never to dry fire a firearm for any reason whatsoever . I've actually been a part of a hunting camp, where some guy dry fired his rifle after cleaning it , and was immediately asked leave because the other hunters didn't want around this guy anymore , he was seen as being your irresponsible. Second and foremost , no one here can guarantee that everyone either reading or in this discussion is over the age of 13 , so therefore I wonder how many of you here are willing not only to put your reputations at stake , but also your financial holding that some immature youngster won't follow your advice , make a mistake and end up killing someone?
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