Justice officials in "Panic Mode" over failed Gun Program

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Vern Humphrey said:
If Holder and Incompetantando didn't know about this, they're totally incompetent.

If they did know, they're criminals.
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Multi agency operation. FBI informant within cartel(s?) arranging to buy guns through straw purchasers. A drug related operation, so DEA is in the mix. ATF making sure straw sales happen, despite gun dealer reservations. ATF had to "throw away the rule book" to make that happen, said Agent Canino.

Who should be coordinating the activities of the FBI, DEA and ATF again? Let's check the organizational chart...

org-chart_Large.jpg

Hmmm... not many branches in that line leading up from those three, are there? The administration's official answer: no one was coordinating these activities, because no one knew. My reaction to that is about the same as when Ollie North said it.
 
And chances are nobody will stand trial for this crime. There is a point when you are truly above the law.
 
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The problem is, we the few gun owners who pay some attention to politics are demanding accountability, but there are very few of us, and we don't matter.

Prove me wrong. Bring this up with friends who don't own guns and/or pay less attention. You'll find that the spin has sunk in: "Ho hum, botched sting operation by some rogue agents, much bigger fish to fry anywhere you look" is the usual reaction.

They have no idea what actually happened, nor that it could only have come from the White House.
 
The few who will stand up and demand justice are likened to the proverbial gnat that is ignored until annoying enough and then finally SWATed.
 
Secret recordings raise new questions in ATF 'Gunwalker' operation

The conversations refer to a third weapon recovered at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

Court records have previously only mentioned two weapons: Romanian WASR "AK-47 type" assault rifles. Both were allegedly sold to suspects who were under ATF's watch as part of Fast and Furious.

...

Law enforcement sources and others close to the Congressional investigation say the Justice Department's Inspector General obtained the audio tapes several months ago as part of its investigation into Fast and Furious.

Then, the sources say for some reason the Inspector General passed the tapes along to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Arizona: a subject in the investigation. It's unclear why the Inspector General, who is supposed to investigate independently, would turn over evidence to an entity that is itself under investigation.
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Yeah, pretty unclear.

The other tape at the link from blue ridge contains this excerpt:

Dealer: Question: do your people have any confidence that you can forestall subpoena? Or is it still up in the air?

Agent: No, my understanding is person, the only people that can request a congressional hearing has to be a majority party. Grassley is a Republican.

Dealer: I know.

Agent: And as of right now...

Dealer: In the Senate right.

Agent: Yeh. And as of right now we don't have any interest from anybody in the majority party to the extent that he's shown interest. So even if you wanted to at this point unless he gets CUTS OUT somebody from the majority party to jump on board, he can't...
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Forcing Senator Grassley to try to find a Democrat Senator interested in getting to the truth was a seriously stupid stalling tactic. Here comes the backfire.
 
Incompetence does not seem an adequate explanation at all. The agents knew it was foolish, and complained internally before blowing the whistle in public. From the testimony of Agent Dodson:

dodsontestimony.gif

"Allowing loads of weapons that we knew to be destined for criminals - this was the plan. It was so mandated."

Who could or would make such a mandate? Excerpt from the latest investigative committee report:

As more information came to light, however, Gil and Canino concluded that hundreds and hundreds of guns had been walked. These guns ended up in at crime scenes in Mexico, about which Gil and Canino received extensive briefings. Gil and Canino became incensed when they finally began to learn about the full scope of Operation Fast and Furious and the investigative techniques involved:

Q. When you first got the impression that this was part of a strategy to let guns walk into Mexico, what was your reaction to that strategy?

A. I wasn’t convinced that this happened until this past April after all the allegations were made, and I talked to different people. I was beyond shocked. Embarrassed. I was angry. I'm still angry. Because this is not what we do.

* * *

"That is, I mean, this is the perfect storm of idiocy. That is the only way I could put it. This is, I mean, this is inconceivable to me. This is group think gone awry. You know what General George Patton says, if we are all thinking alike, then nobody is thinking. Right? Nobody was thinking here. How could anybody think, hey, let's follow, I mean there is a guy in this case that bought over 600 guns. At what point do you think you might want to pull him aside and say, hey, come here for a second."

When Canino himself uncovered hard evidence that ATF had allowed the guns to disappear from their surveillance he understood the whistleblower allegations were true:

Q. Okay, and take us through what happened in April.

A. I was here on a visit to headquarters.

Q. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms headquarters?

A. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms headquarters, and I was, I was looking at a, the management log on this case. And the first two pages, if I'm not mistaken, there are entries there that chronicle us walking away on three separate occasions from stash houses.

Q. And did that sound to you incredible?

A. I stopped reading.

Q. So you only got through two pages of this management log?

A. Yeah.

Q. And then you couldn't read it any longer?

A. Didn't want to.

Q. Because you were so upset?

A. Yes.

Q. And you were upset because walking away from three stash houses struck you as so outrageous?

A. Walking away from one, walking away from one gun when you know that that gun is going to be used in a crime when you, I mean, there is no, there was no gray area here guys. There was no gray area here. We knew that these guys were trafficking guns into Mexico. There is no gray area. They weren't trafficking, [the] guys weren't going out and buying two Larson 22 pistols. These guys were buying 7.62, 223's, .50 caliber rifles, okay, there was no mistake about this. This is no gray area.
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Agent Canino was "beyond shocked. Embarrassed. I was angry. I'm still angry. Because this is not what we do....This is no gray area."

Who has the authority to throw away the rule book and proceed with an operation like this one for months and months? Incompetence just does not explain it at all, let alone explain it adequately, when you consider the various agencies and departments involved. When you consider that they all report to Eric Holder, incompetence does not explain why no one told him for several months after the scandal became public.

I'm a great believer in governmental incompetence, but not that great.
 
"That is, I mean, this is the perfect storm of idiocy. That is the only way I could put it. This is, I mean, this is inconceivable to me. This is group think gone awry. You know what General George Patton says, if we are all thinking alike, then nobody is thinking. Right? Nobody was thinking here. How could anybody think, hey, let's follow, I mean there is a guy in this case that bought over 600 guns. At what point do you think you might want to pull him aside and say, hey, come here for a second."
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He doesn't get it, because (imo) it hasn't clicked in his brain that they are operating in a criminal manner, intentionally doing this.
I have had conversations with people on this topic. They say to me "they are so dumb/backwards/messed up" because none of what they do makes sense. Well, I believe this is because they are operating under the assumption that they are honestly attempting to do the things they say, for our benefit. If they are, then yes, it makes no sense. I recommend the following experiment: Next time you read a story that makes no sense, say to yourself "these people are intentionally working against me, and lying when they say they are trying to do good." I predict that suddenly everything they do will make perfect sense. Try this experiment for a week and see what happens.
 
CBS News releases more from the audio tapes.

ATF 'Fast and Furious' secret audio recordings reveal concerns about whistleblower

The gun dealer is Andre Howard, the agent is ATF Agent Hope MacAllister.


Dealer: He's (Dodson) more toxic than you realize. I can tell you cause I asked him. How much of this f-----g file did you release?

Agent: Mmmhm

Dealer: He said basically the underlying case file. I said okay, who'd you release it to? F-----g Patrick Leahy! Ok? Wasn't just Grassley it was Leahy alright? Leahy as we both know has adjourned this inquiry right now okay with no plans to reconvene it. So your people were successful on that end.

Agent: Right.


...



EXCERPT 4



Dealer: What's Holders' office got to say about this?

Agent: Well like I said they're supposed to come out with little more um b----y statement than they have in the past, so...

Dealer: God they're (intell)

Agent: I mean at some point they're gonna say have to say Grassley you're just gonna have to sit your a-- down. I mean that or they're gonna have to (unintell). I mean like I said my understanding is he can't call a hearing. Somebody from the majority party has got to call a congressional hearing and as of right now...

Dealer: Patrick Leahy's an a----e, you know that. He gets ahold of something he's like a dog with a bone.

Agent: As of right now we don't have any info that's occurred. So...

Dealer: No, not now, but

Agent: I know there was a presentation given to Judiciary committee and everybody aside from Grassley is is satisfied. At least at this point.

Dealer: So they say you know I don't trust em...

Agent: No but I mean that's all I've got...it's all (unintell.)
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Hmmm... investigative inquiry adjourned by Leahy means "your people were successful" huh? Kind of makes you wonder just who "your people" are in this case, and what they were successful in accomplishing.

Whatever it was, it did not make Grassley sit his ass down. Good for him.
 
If the BATFE and the DOJ is willing to treat congress like this, I cannot imagine how they would treat a LGS or person. I hope they nail their asses to a wall and leave em there to rot.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...etails-in-fast-and-furious-gunrunner-scandal/

Apparently one of the shop owners told to sell the guns taped a few conversations with the ATF, in which he was assured the guns were seized before reaching Mexico. Fox says other media have reported the ATF saying the opposite, that the gunshop owner sold guns to the cartel without any mention of the governments involvement.

Two ATF whistle blowers reassigned to 'dead end jobs'.
 
What kind of problems is the FBI experiencing that overshadows this scandal? Am I missing something or is there something even bigger brewing?

This is freakin' crazy, what do these people think they are doing?
 
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Apparently release of the tapes could jeopardize the investigation.





http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...etails-in-fast-and-furious-gunrunner-scandal/




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Lawmakers Claim Justice Inspector Obstructed Probe Into ‘Fast and Furious’

By William Lajeunesse

Published September 21, 2011

| FoxNews.com



The inspector general of the Department of Justice undermined and obstructed a congressional investigation by releasing secret tape recordings that corroborate allegations of misconduct in "Operation Fast and Furious," according to a letter written by Rep. Darrell Issa and Sen. Charles Grassley.
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