Knock at my door 45 minutes ago

[lions]

You can get them both for less than 20 dollars at any hardware store, no reason for it to be an either/or.

So you're making a trip to the hardware store, and standing in front of your door with a power drill you dug out, found bits for, etc. ...
... And only one of those devices is getting installed?

I'm not saying you can only have one, I'm saying that they both preform the same function. They both allow you to see who is at your door without having to unlock it completely. Why have both?

If you have a peephole when would you use the door chain?

 

[NMGonzo]

Well done!

Polite, to the point, and friendly.

 

[bigfatdave]

If you have a peephole when would you use the door chain?

When I didn't want to put my eye to the door with someone I didn't expect on the other side.
And the chain is a delay barrier for someone trying to kick in the door, while the peephole is a discrete to confirm that you are opening the door to someone you expect.

I guess I just don't think of the two devices as redundant, because I don't think they perform the exact same function.

 

[CoRoMo]

Of all the times that I've had an encounter with LE while being armed over the years, I've never once remembered (or desired) to inform them that I was armed.

It's just not something I constantly think about. When I'm talking to a LEO, I'm usually trying to get out of the traffic ticket or something, and informing him just doesn't cross my mind.

It'd be like trying to remember to tell the patrol officer that I brushed my teeth that morning. It's just not something that I constantly think about.

 

[lions]

When I didn't want to put my eye to the door with someone I didn't expect on the other side.

So you would rather open the door a couple of inches?

I'm thinking that you view the door chain as more or less just another locking mechanism while I view it as just another way to confirm who is at the door without having to completely unlock it.

Sounds like we just use the chain differently... I guess that is ok.

 

[Pappy109]

You need a bigger dog than that beagle!

 

[wishin]

One of the things that's obvious in these forums is that when some people think black is blue you can argue 'til the cows come home and you're not going to change their mind! That's the thing about opinions, they're like a$$holes, everybody has one.

 

[MinnMooney]

Great job !

I don't think I could have handled it any better if I had had hind-sight on that scenario.

 

[Average Joe]

Just out of curiosity, where was the car parked, that you didn't hear the alarm going off at 12:30 at night ?

 

[WNC Seabee]

Lots of grumpy argumentative types around here lately...

Good job to the OP and thanks for sharing.

But MY GOD! How dare you shake the hands of the PO and tell the jack booted thug that you're armed! What a horrible tactical mistake! You should have kept your finger firmly on the trigger inside your 5.11 vest and called the Sherrif on your tactical headset to verify the identity of the alleged police at your door. Don't you know anything? [/sarcasm]

What ever happened to common sense?

 

[hak]

for 20 yr old, you did great. i would say the peep and chain are good in combo. or, you could go with a camera that pushes video to your TVs and is a Picture in Picture push button away....

 

[unloved]

Furthermore, Pennsylvania does not issue permits, only a License To Carry Firearms (LTCF)...

Actually, Pennsylvania does issue permits. Permits that have to do with carrying, and transporting handguns. Sportsman's Firearm Permits. The SFP and LTCF are not equivalent. That's why it's so important that we use accurate terminology. It's why I can't stand hearing a LTCF referred to as a "permit."

 

[B yond]

I offered my hand to him. Perhaps you live in a city, but in the country if someone offers you a handshake, you take it.

I've lived in both, but began training for LE in a city (took me awhile to realize I didn't want to do that for a living). I was taught not to shake hands as a LEO at the same time as I was taught several ways to control someone by their hand.

I'm not saying you did anything wrong. In fact, I often offer a handshake to LEOs when I meet them just to see if they'll go for it. Training is different in different places.

 

[rich636]

Yeah I agree on the peephole suggestion. Answering the door with your hand on your gun every time someone knocks is no way to live.

 

[ChaoSS]

If you have a peephole when would you use the door chain?

A couple of good reasons. First, if someone decides to kick in your door, it's an extra few kicks, it's extra time that you have to prepare. Second, if you see that it is someone like a police officer, or someone that probably isn't a threat, you can open the door to talk (easier than trying to talk through a door) and if the person is a threat, it again gives you time to react, rather than a shoulder on the door pushing it open right away.

But MY GOD! How dare you shake the hands of the PO and tell the jack booted thug that you're armed! What a horrible tactical mistake! You should have kept your finger firmly on the trigger inside your 5.11 vest and called the Sherrif on your tactical headset to verify the identity of the alleged police at your door. Don't you know anything? [/sarcasm]

I think the point was that the LEO shouldn't have shaken his hand, not that the OP shouldn't have done so. However, I don't see the need for police to be this way, perhaps when people are acting "funny", but it doesn't do well for LEOs to act as if they are completely separate from the population. Especially in rural areas, it does them well to acquaint themselves with the locals and be friendly, fostering relationships that will save them trouble, (and thus risk) down the road.

 

[scythefwd]

CHaoSS - I have kicked a door in. Split the frame out. Right down the middle where the deadbolt was. The chain, went with the half of the frame that split away and flew into the house. New external doors, with metal frames, are hard to do this to. Older external doors with wooden frames are easy. I have kicked doors off their hinges as well. Do you think 6 1/2" screws will old better than 2-3 1 inch screws? Those chains will break after the door has been kicked open. First kick releases the door, the second will break the chain. Another fun one is to kick a paneled door and break out the panel. That takes about 2-3 kicks to get it out. IF I am really serious about getting into a house, I am not going through the door anyways but if that is my only option, I am breaking hinge side, not deadbolt side. It is easier to strip out those screws than to push a steel bar through the metal frame. I haven't tried in about 12-15 years though.

That said, I have yet to see one of the bar type locks on hotel rooms break. You can get those and they are much better than the chains. Use good screws and they will have a much harder time.

 

[B yond]

I think the point was that the LEO shouldn't have shaken his hand, not that the OP shouldn't have done so. However, I don't see the need for police to be this way, perhaps when people are acting "funny", but it doesn't do well for LEOs to act as if they are completely separate from the population. Especially in rural areas, it does them well to acquaint themselves with the locals and be friendly, fostering relationships that will save them trouble, (and thus risk) down the road.

Many things LEOs are trained to do for their own safety make them appear to consider themselves separate from the community. This is why so many people think 'cops are jerks.'

It is unfortunate. As a result they are often not given the respect and thanks they deserve.

I don't think the OP handled the situation inappropriately. I was just surprised that the officer would potentially put himself at risk by shaking the hand of a person he did not know.

Different places, different tactics and training.

 

[Balog]

I think you did pretty well OP. I'm curious how loud the movie was that you didn't hear the alarm, but that's not a criticism. When I was married I was 19, and unable to get a carry permit. I borrowed a pistol from a friend, and just open carried everywhere. One of the nice things about AZ, no one cared.

Peepholes are good, and they make some wide angles ones that can be seen from farther back which seems like a nice feature.

When it comes to doors, the issue is less the door and locks, more the frame. A solid steel frame properly anchored to a heavy structural beam is an important starting point for intruder resistant entryways.

 

[ZeBool]

Thanks for all of the responses and constructive criticism, as it is why I frequent this board above all others. Honestly, I don't know how neither I nor my girlfriend didn't hear the alarm. The movie was over and the dvd player was doing its shut-down thing, so it was quiet. I found it odd as well that the alarm wasn't going off when I got outside with the officer either.

 

[HunterBear71]

I would have probably not answered the door. Generally, if i have late visitors, I just sit in the dark with my Mossberg until I can determine who it is. I think opening the door was a mistake even though you were armed. Determine who is visiting before opening the door. I wonder who reported the car alarm if you didn't hear it and you live in a rural location? Also, call me paronoid, but a police uniform can be purchased online.

 

[CoRoMo]

I just sit in the dark with my Mossberg...

Ummm...

 

[CajunBass]

For all you folks who want to know why they didn't hear the car alarm, I can assure you, back in the day, a LONG time ago, IF I had been home after midnight with my girlfriend, I probably wouldn't have heard anything short of a nuclear strike.

 

[dogtown tom]

Do not rely on a chain to offer ANY security to a door.

Thirty four years ago, (in college) I learned to open the little sliding chain lock using a rubber band tied to the end of a pencil. Loop the rubber band around the "slider", pull the door almost closed with the pencil and rubber band putting tession on the slider and you can pull the slider right out the door plate.

 

[wishin]

LOL CajunBass. Aint that the truth!

 

[danbrew]

You don't need to open the door, nor look through a peephole to determine who is outside. You can say "Who's there?" and see what happens. "Police, sir". "Um, would you like to buy some candy?" Different answers dictate different responses. "How can I help you?" and "Get the heck out of here" all can be said through a closed door.

Just like a door can be kicked open past the chain (and even while shut), there's a downside to looking through the peephole too. If I'm a real bad guy, maybe that's when I take a battering ram to the door when you're offguard and bending over to take a peek through the door. Or maybe that's when I put my .22 up against the peep and put one in your eyeball.

I suppose you could just do what I do - get a few big dogs. Nobody walks up to the house without us knowing.