Korriphila HSP 701

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I'm curious. I believe you once posted a pic of your Korth, and said that the Korth was built/designed to be an absolutely no compromises pistol with nothing but absolute highest quality attainable in mind. If not the Korth please correct me.

I'm just wondering, since you have both, how you would compare these two pistols that were built with absolutely no compromises at all. Are there any others that were built to that level of quality? and if so, how do they compare in terms of craftsmanship and how each of their respective craftsman interpreted the edict of "go build a no compromises gun."

Does my question make sense at all? I'm just trying to get some perspective here, as a guy who loves finely built things (as I look down at my Breitling) but has no guns of this caliber.

Your question makes perfect sense and you also have a good memory. Yes, I did state that of my Korth.

Yes, the Korth was built in the same fashion and they sell for the same prices. In terms of parts quality and build quality, its hard to pick a winner. The Korriphila's design is much better adapted to accurate shooting, however. I believe the Korriphila can shoot with the high end target pistols. The Korth's design puts it at a disadvantage.

You can see how beautifully its built though. Even the proof marks are perfect. The Korth and Korriphila sort of stand alone in that regard.


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Congrats...you just posted a photo of a gun I've never heard of. The Korriphila, yes...but not the Delta Top Gun. Applause.

That's not surprising. The Delta AR Top Gun is the rarest gun in this thread.
 
That's not surprising. The Delta AR Top Gun is the rarest gun in this thread.
That's a damn understatement. I just plumbed the depths of Google looking for info on the Delta AR and all the good information comes from none other than yourself, talking about your gun, on various gun forums! Haha! If that's not ultra-rare then I'm a reindeer.
 
BTW, what camera-slash-microscope are you taking these pictures with?
 
That's a damn understatement. I just plumbed the depths of Google looking for info on the Delta AR and all the good information comes from none other than yourself, talking about your gun, on various gun forums! Haha! If that's not ultra-rare then I'm a reindeer.

I know a couple of guys that have them, but I don't think more than 100 were ever made. Tops would probably be 150. Most are in Italy, I would think.
 
The Korth's design puts it at a disadvantage.

So then I have to wonder, if by its very nature, Korth is a compromise of some type, because in order to get the title of "best," they used a design that inherently is less accurate...

I wonder how the Korth and the Korriphilia would compare in a bench vice, mechanical accuracy challenge against purpose built target guns like Bullseye oriented 1911's and such.
 
So then I have to wonder, if by its very nature, Korth is a compromise of some type, because in order to get the title of "best," they used a design that inherently is less accurate...

I wonder how the Korth and the Korriphilia would compare in a bench vice, mechanical accuracy challenge against purpose built target guns like Bullseye oriented 1911's and such.

Its not a compromise. It just wasn't the primary objective. The Korth uses a falling block locking action, similar in some ways to a Walther P38 or Beretta 92. While the design is very reliable and sturdy, the barrel to slide and frame lockup was not the primary concern. Its not an inaccurate pistol. It's just not going to compete with a fixed barrel design or pistols with extremely tight barrel, frame, and slide tolerances, such as a Sig P210 and some others. Some pistols, such as a Smith & Wesson 952 use a special bushing to help achieve the desired lockup and accuracy performance.

People seem to overvalue slide to frame fit. While its important, the real determining factor in accuracy is the movement of the barrel during the weapon's cycling. The best 1911s achieve their great accuracy not so much from slide to frame fit, but from extremely tight tolerances between the barrel, slide, and bushing. Barrel quality is also a factor.

With all this said, I can only conclude that the Korth was not designed with ultimate accuracy in mind. It was a unique pistol built from the finest materials and completely hand fitted. The quality, refinement, and fit and finish of the gun are amazing. In that, I believe Korth achieved his foremost objective. However, the mediocre barrel lockup hurts its inherent accuracy potential when compared to the most accurate pistols around.

To answer your second question, I don't own a ransom rest. However, I would fully expect the Korriphila to hold its own.
 
[bc1023]People seem to overvalue slide to frame fit. While its important, the real determining factor in accuracy is the movement of the barrel during the weapon's cycling. The best 1911s achieve their great accuracy not so much from slide to frame fit, but from extremely tight tolerances between the barrel, slide, and bushing. Barrel quality is also a factor.[/QUOTE]

I agree about people over-valuing slide to frame fit.

Many 1911 gunsmiths -- and 1911 shooters are the ones who historically were most concerned about slide/frame fit -- now say that slide/frame fit might account for maybe 5%-10% of a gun's demonstrated accuracy, while barrel to slide fit is far, far more important.

For aimed fire, the gun's slide/frame fit can be loose if the barrel and slide (and, in effect, the sights) are tightly fit and line up consistenly. (Slide to frame fit doesn't have much role in that part of the process.) I've shot 1911s that would rattle if shaken, but which were very accurate.

I also think that how the barrel moves while the gun is cycling is relatively unimportant, since the bullet is out of the barrel before the barrel and slide have moved much more than a fraction of an inch. (I think I've read 1/10th of an inch for most 1911 .45s); what matters most is that the barrel/slide/sights meet back up again consistently after each shot. Aslong as they return to the same place consistently, the gun can be very accurate if someone is aiming it..

For Ransom Rest tests, which don't involve aiming or sight alignment (except to get an initial point of impact) slide to frame fit is important. That's one of the reasons why we don't see a lot of Ransom Rest tests of polymer-framed guns: the polymer frames just don't always bring the gun back to the same position with each shot.

Aimed fire with a polymer-framed gun can match a steel-framed gun, if the slide and barrel are tightly fit and can consistely lock up. The frame is, in effect, just a handle. The slide and barrel really do the work.
 
Absolutely fascinating, bc, thank you for explaining and thank you again for sharing with us. I really hope that some day you open a museum!

Edit to add:

Actually, you may well be the only person with a collection this extensive of fine and exclusive pistols. I would love to see you publish a book about them. It could become the ultimate resource for fine pistols. Think of it like a Flayderman's but specifically for the upper echelon pistols. Looking up a lot of your guns online, you're already the top resource for info. Might as well publish it for posterity, and make a buck while you're at it!
 
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Design is compromise. The compromise avoided in these guns is cost, and secondarily non-optimal reliability (when dirty, bad ammo, wear, etc). For most guns those concerns are nearly foremost, but not here, so different ideas and designs come to the fore.

TCB
 
About slide to frame fit; it may not matter for accuracy, but it is foremost in making the gun 'feel' nice and accurate. See the Cabots with zero clearance polished slides that won't even run properly, but have a slide rack that is (somehow) patented for feel/sound. It's like putting a solid, bearing supported volume knob on a high end stereo system; zero impact on what 'matters,' but its how the end user knows they got what they payed for. See; turntables that cost more than these guns with 4" thick platters :rolleyes:

TCB
 
About slide to frame fit; it may not matter for accuracy, but it is foremost in making the gun 'feel' nice and accurate. See the Cabots with zero clearance polished slides that won't even run properly, but have a slide rack that is (somehow) patented for feel/sound. It's like putting a solid, bearing supported volume knob on a high end stereo system; zero impact on what 'matters,' but its how the end user knows they got what they payed for. See; turntables that cost more than these guns with 4" thick platters

TCB

I've handled a couple Cabot 1911s. I'm not impressed at all, quite honestly.

I've got custom builds from Paul Liebenberg, Ted Yost, and a couple others. Cabot doesn't come close to being in the same league.
 
Design is compromise. The compromise avoided in these guns is cost, and secondarily non-optimal reliability (when dirty, bad ammo, wear, etc). For most guns those concerns are nearly foremost, but not here, so different ideas and designs come to the fore.

TCB

My point was that Korth designed the pistol the way he wanted. He didn't design it with the thought of compromising accuracy. I just don't think it was a priority.

Like I said, the pistol is plenty accurate. It just all relative depending on what you're comparing it to.
 
There's something (or rather, a lot) to be said for being unique in this league of guns, as well. If Korth just did a quality 1911, we'd be all *yawn* like we are with all the others.

Also, thanks for inadvertently reminding me of Ed Yost (another custom built item I'll never be able to enjoy :D)

TCB
 
There's something (or rather, a lot) to be said for being unique in this league of guns, as well. If Korth just did a quality 1911, we'd be all *yawn* like we are with all the others.

The 1911 is a great design. Its a shame the market is so flooded with them.
 
Absolutely fascinating, bc, thank you for explaining and thank you again for sharing with us. I really hope that some day you open a museum!

Edit to add:

Actually, you may well be the only person with a collection this extensive of fine and exclusive pistols. I would love to see you publish a book about them. It could become the ultimate resource for fine pistols. Think of it like a Flayderman's but specifically for the upper echelon pistols. Looking up a lot of your guns online, you're already the top resource for info. Might as well publish it for posterity, and make a buck while you're at it!

Thanks. I appreciate the kind words. The book suggestion has come up before. Maybe one day...
 
Amazing! your gun collection is so exotic, it's almost like you collect guns from an alternate universe :)
 
Truly amazing! Honestly I had not heard of Korriphila.

I CAN add this, since wristwatches were mentioned. Trust me, that can become a very expensive hobby, especially if you factor in the periodic maintenance. I'm much happier with firearms hobby, but still have some quality watches.
 
Thanks. I appreciate the kind words. The book suggestion has come up before. Maybe one day...

A loss of your accumulated knowledge on the subject would be like losing the library at Alexandria. Putting it out there, makes that knowledge available for future generations. Do it for the kids!:D
 
I must ask , how many rounds these pictured guns, or others like them you own, have had through them as well as what types of ammunition and what sort of groups you get at 25 meters?. How well do they function with different weight and shape bullets?

-kBob
 
I must ask , how many rounds these pictured guns, or others like them you own, have had through them as well as what types of ammunition and what sort of groups you get at 25 meters?. How well do they function with different weight and shape bullets?

-kBob

I've only ever had round range ammo through any of them and never bench tested their accuracy. They do function good and grouped quite well at the modest distances I was shooting. I have some hard core target/sporting pistols that I shoot more extensively. These are a bit more collectible and rare.

I generally only ever shoot range ammo through anything, unless I'm trying new HP ammo through one of my carry guns.
 
For Ransom Rest tests, which don't involve aiming or sight alignment (except to get an initial point of impact) slide to frame fit is important.

FLG and I once ran a test with a moderately well fitted 1911 in the Ransom Rest. Tight barrel fit, merely close slide fit.
We shot it like that, then we ran a string of fire laying the gun for each shot with a scope sight in V blocks on top of the slide. Accuracy was markedly better when the gun was aimed.
 
Those are two of the most beautiful handguns I have ever seen.....works of art! Thanks for posting the pics and showing me something I have never heard of.
9 fingers
 
Those are two of the most beautiful handguns I have ever seen.....works of art! Thanks for posting the pics and showing me something I have never heard of.
9 fingers

You're quite welcome.

You didn't like the third? ;)
 
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