Comparing the price of machine guns to price of luxury goods is not the same. The government did not create an artificially small market for Rolex watches, like it has for machine guns.
Lake City Ammo plant
- Thread starter Balrog
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No its not plain old capitalism. It is capitalism that has been severely impacted by federal law. It is not the seller's fault that the market is what the government has made it, so of course I do not hold the seller accountable for the price. The government, and the government alone, is at fault for the prices. My solution is not to make sellers sell for 1980 prices. My solution is for the government to get its hands off the free market, and let manufacturers produce machine guns that are legal to sell to the public.
If the government placed a $10,000 tax on all firearms, your argument seems to be that that would be OK. It doesn't stop you from buying a firearm, after all.
dogtown tom
Member
Manufacture and importation was banned.
Was possession banned? No.
Maybe you should stop listening to those that said it "was a ban".
dogtown tom
Member
My argument alludes to no such thing.
Is reading what I actually wrote that difficult?
Again, (seems that I have to repeatedly use that word with you) my comment is about the legality. "Can own" is not the same as "can afford to own".
But go ahead and believe in your defacto ban. You'll be wrong.
I have understood you could own the whole time. The hurdles that the government has place on ownership is the problem.My argument alludes to no such thing.
Is reading what I actually wrote that difficult?
Again, (seems that I have to repeatedly use that word with you) my comment is about the legality. "Can own" is not the same as "can afford to own".
But go ahead and believe in your defacto ban. You'll be wrong.
If the government did the same thing to other firearms, how would you react?
dogtown tom
Member
Which was my point.
That's obvious.
Seriously?
Good grief.
This forum never fails to disappoint.
Yes seriously.
Space Ghost
Member
Well, it was as much of a "ban" as they could get through congress at the time...
We all know that's their endgame.
They're just having to take baby steps to get there... so there won't be a repeat of 1776, or 1861.
A bud I know worked for DoD and went to Army Ammunition plants to determine compliance to gauging.
Army Ammunition plants are run by Contractors. These are Government Owned, Contractor Operated facilities. The contractors act as though they own the plant, and the Government! However one deal is, to keep the plant and the workers in prime condition, if the plant meets military needs, than the Contractor can operate the plant for its profit. That explains why we have seen new primed LC 5.56 cases for sale. The stuff did come off the LC production lines, but in a time when the Contractor had met all the Government needs first.
The US no longer has the industrial capacity to produce enough ammunition, firearms, equipment to support our military in minor bush wars. During the Infinity Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan the US military contracted with South Korea for small arms ammunition. Today, the US is buying 20mm munitions and artillery from S Korea because the US industrial capacity is insufficient to support the war in Ukraine.
The Greatest Generation remembered their severe shortages in the ramp up in WW2. And that was a time when the US was a manufacturing behemoth. The Greatest Generation built surge capacity ammunition plants for just such problems as we have today. I toured the Lone Star Ammunition plant in the early 1980's, this was a small arms plant built, maintained, to be turned on when surge capacity was needed for a war. All these surge plants were sold off in the Clinton administration to Democratically well connected realtors and plutocrats who made obscene profits picking up Government property for a song. Our leaders off shored our manufacturing capability and our industrial base. So, if LC can not meet military needs, they sure are not going to have excess to sell to civilians.
Army Ammunition plants are run by Contractors. These are Government Owned, Contractor Operated facilities. The contractors act as though they own the plant, and the Government! However one deal is, to keep the plant and the workers in prime condition, if the plant meets military needs, than the Contractor can operate the plant for its profit. That explains why we have seen new primed LC 5.56 cases for sale. The stuff did come off the LC production lines, but in a time when the Contractor had met all the Government needs first.
The US no longer has the industrial capacity to produce enough ammunition, firearms, equipment to support our military in minor bush wars. During the Infinity Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan the US military contracted with South Korea for small arms ammunition. Today, the US is buying 20mm munitions and artillery from S Korea because the US industrial capacity is insufficient to support the war in Ukraine.
The Greatest Generation remembered their severe shortages in the ramp up in WW2. And that was a time when the US was a manufacturing behemoth. The Greatest Generation built surge capacity ammunition plants for just such problems as we have today. I toured the Lone Star Ammunition plant in the early 1980's, this was a small arms plant built, maintained, to be turned on when surge capacity was needed for a war. All these surge plants were sold off in the Clinton administration to Democratically well connected realtors and plutocrats who made obscene profits picking up Government property for a song. Our leaders off shored our manufacturing capability and our industrial base. So, if LC can not meet military needs, they sure are not going to have excess to sell to civilians.
Gun-Reck
Member
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- May 16, 2023
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- 561
Don't forget Taiwan.
5.56 NATO ammo manufactured by the 205th, a division of the Department of Defense and Ministry of Defense, was sourced for South Asia.
357smallbore
Member
You must have deep pockets or an awful lot of disposable cash. Using conservative prices, thats over $6k for the amount of ammo you listed
357smallbore
Member
40k you say a year. That over $10k in ammo cost at a conservative $ amount
Even reloading there's an absorbent amount of cost. Let alone time to reload that much. Must not have to work and do anything else but go shoot
Sounds exaggerated to me.
DetBrowning
Contributing Member
My father taught me not to count other people's pockets. He said you can't spend their money.
What's your point and what does it have to do with the thread? However, in answer to your question God has been great and provided for us in many ways, the least in my opinion is the finance.
357smallbore
Member
Just making an observation and statement
You do You.
Dain Bramage
Member
Forget it Jake, it's Literaltown.
Old Sandman 71
Member
Well boys, the New York Times may have exacerbated things regarding Lake City ammo with this gem:
www.nytimes.com
Army Ammunition Plant Is Tied to Mass Shootings Across the U.S.
The site was built for the military, but commercial sales are booming with little public accountability. Rounds have been bought by murderers, antigovernment groups and others.
DetBrowning
Contributing Member
40k you say a year. That over $10k in ammo cost at a conservative $ amount
Even reloading there's an absorbent amount of cost. Let alone time to reload that much. Must not have to work and do anything else but go shoot
Sounds exaggerat
I guess I qualify as "Others"Well boys, the New York Times may have exacerbated things regarding Lake City ammo with this gem:
Army Ammunition Plant Is Tied to Mass Shootings Across the U.S.
The site was built for the military, but commercial sales are booming with little public accountability. Rounds have been bought by murderers, antigovernment groups and others.
JEBruns
Member
Not for guys serious about competition. Heck, I shoot 10K rounds a year of 9mm alone, and I rarely compete.40k you say a year. That over $10k in ammo cost at a conservative $ amount
Even reloading there's an absorbent amount of cost. Let alone time to reload that much. Must not have to work and do anything else but go shoot
Sounds exaggerated to me.
We've gone from Lake City might be stopping production of ammo outside of .gov contracts, to, it's a defacto ban, to, there's no way you shoot that much or can afford that much ammo. Let's call it a day on this one as we have drifted far from the original question.
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