Lazzeroni rifles. Which one to get?

[Metapotent]

I have been saving up for a new rifle (specifically a Lazzeroni) and I am stumped as to what cartridge to have it chambered for when i get it custom made.

Right now I am in the preliminary stage of the waiting list period while they check my credit and such, but I have about a week to decide what style and what cartridge I want.

I will be using it for both deer, and black bear at long ranges. But I would also like the knowledge that I could easily take down charging dangerous game like water buffalo and lion (I'm going on Safari in september in Namibia with my girlfriends father). I'm pondering the .284 Firebird or the .308 Warbird. But I have heard the .257 scramjet can take almost any large game as well. I don't know about the larger calibers and their recoil stats are a little intimidating such as the .338 titan and the .375 hellcat.

Anyone who has a knowledge of the performance of the Lazzeroni cartridges, give me a suggestion or any useful information.

 

[rbernie]

But I have heard the .257 scramjet can take almost any large game as well.

Not with me around. I doubt that I'd be trusting my life to the likes of a 115gr .257 Partition.

Deer are going to need much less energy to drop than most any dangerous game you'll find in Africa, and I suspect that your goals are somewhat incompatible. Having said that, the 308 Warbird or 338 Titan are probably the chamberings most likely to do double-duty with the greatest relative ease. If I had to pick one for use only on game within CONUS, I'd probably choose the 284 Firebird and load heavy-for-caliber bullets.

 

[rangerruck]

in africa, they dont care if your bullet is fired from the engine of the space shuttle, it must be at least a 375 cal. you better call ahead, if you get a 308 warbird, and tell them about it. I also am assuming that you know each box of ammo is about 80 to 100 bucks per box?
I mean , i'm like you , i believe as mr. weatherby did, "speed kills", a fast 257 weatherby, will take any animal in north america, but African dangerous animals make a grizzly here look like Eudora Welty over there.

 

[Metapotent]

in africa, they dont care if your bullet is fired from the engine of the space shuttle, it must be at least a 375 cal. you better call ahead, if you get a 308 warbird, and tell them about it. I also am assuming that you know each box of ammo is about 80 to 100 bucks per box?

Well the requirements for Lion hunting that I read in the brochure was a .270 winchester, but they mentioned that the guide would have a large caliber rifle as protection. For small land mammals like gazelles and such they suggested atleast a .243 and for an african bufallo the requirement was only a .30 caliber rifle.

As for the Lazzeroni ammo costs, I realize how expensive it is but I've been saving for it. If money was an issue, I wouldn't be buying a Lazzeroni in the first place I would just bring both my .30-06 and my .375 H & H.

 

[rangerruck]

well , as long as you def can use something smaller than 375 is ok, then I like the idea of the 284, good for planes game and shoudl be good on some of the larger boys as well.

 

[dakotasin]

meta- cost of ammo a concern? handload.

for lazz experience, go to either link in my sig line and roust 'klallen'. he is a person who has a couple, in addition to some insane-performance wildcats that make lazz's look ho-hum. he knows the cartridges inside and out.

 

[Metapotent]

Ammo costs aren't really a concern for 2 reasons. A) Money isn't an issue because despite my age, I make quite a heft salary (not to brag). B) I won't be shooting more than probably 20 rounds a year anyhow so I would lose money to get the equipment to handload Lazzeroni rounds if I only loaded 20 rounds a year as opposed to just buying it straight from Lazzeroni.

Now one might ask "Why buy it if you won't use it often and won't handload"? Well the way I see it, I have the cash saved up so I might as well go all out. Plus, when I go on Safari with my girlfriends father I want to do my best to impress him in every possible way. He is a very wealthy man and I want to give him the impression that I have the money and resources to support his daughter when I ask him for his permission to propose to her.

Don't laugh.

 

[Terrierman]

Showing up with a Lazzeroni in any caliber would not be all that impressive to me if it was my daughter. A nice pre-'64 Winchester in .375 with some good wood and nice steel work would be a much better bet if he is a discerning gentleman of means.

 

[Metapotent]

Well if someone here has a pre 1964 winchester in .375 I'd gladly accept it.

But I need a good longrange gun for the area that I will be going to (wide open grass plains) and I'm more than willing to spend $6,500 for a rifle that shoots less than 1 MOA out to 600 yds with only 15 inches of drop at 500yds when 1.3 inches high at 100 yds and zeroed at 300yds. That is some seriously flat trajectory and well worth it for someone like me who can't estimate range for crap and for someone who can't afford a $20,000 double rifle elephant gun that the people in my hunting party will be sporting.

Plus I don't want to embarass myself by missing a shot in the presence of the man that (hopefully) will accept my request of his daughter's hand in marriage. He is a very macho, cocky and successful person who has hitherto refused to go hunting with me due to what he claims to be my "pansy attitude" and my "obvious inability to hunt with the big-boys". My girlfriend, his daughter finally convinced him to let me tag along to Namibia with him and pay for it as well. And the last thing I want to do is to be, in effect, an empty rifle when he is forking over mad money to pay for the trip.

 

[confed sailor]

He sounds like hed make a great grandpa

 

[rbernie]

He is a very macho, cocky and successful person who has hitherto refused to go hunting with me due to what he claims to be my "pansy attitude" and my "obvious inability to hunt with the big-boys".

More power to ya, dude - I presume that you know what you're doing. But that sounds like the kind of guy that I try to AVOID being around when loaded firearms are involved.

Back on topic - how are you getting the Lazzeroni in time for the safari?

 

[Terrierman]

There's a pre 64 Model 70 in .375 H&H for sale today on Craigslist. You could also look in some of the better gun rooms, and seriously, that would be a lot better way to spend your $6500, both for investment purposes and for fitting in on your little juant to darkest Africa with your potential future father in law and his buddies.

 

[rockstar.esq]

Don't know squat about Lazzzeroni cartridges other than they are more expensive than Weatherby. I'm not on the "speed kills" bandwagon so my tastes would run towards the larger projectiles. If nothing else the "Titan" sounds impressive! Personally I'd be more impressed with a guy that can really use his rifle to great effect rather than the fiscal workout of a designer rifle line. It kind of reminds me of how you could plant some roses in your backyard, clip the blooms on Valentines day, bundle them nicely and they'd still fall short for some women simply because they didn't cost you an arm and a leg! Truly I hope your Safari is great, many many people purchase a special rifle just for the one trip. As something of a lifetime benchmark, I suppose it's better than some other options. Just please make sure it hits where you're aiming before you point it at something angry and coming fast!

 

[TimboKhan]

Rockstar.esq, how dare you mention that the "Titan" sounds impressive without talking about my suggested ".50 Requiem" round. How dare you, sir. You may formally consider this an invitation to duel. You with your beloved ".300 Whisper"and me with my newly designed ".650 Manhunt".

 

[Metapotent]

rbernie said:

Back on topic - how are you getting the Lazzeroni in time for the safari?

I'm in the preliminary stage of the waiting list. I place my order on the 20th if they approve me after checking my credit. I already have been faxed an order form that I will email to them when I get the approval.

I stated originally that it is going to be custom-made, this isn't really true because what I will be specifying is the setup of rifle, caliber, and scope that they have readily available. It's not really "custom" to my body size and what not, so it doesn't take that long to put together, throw in a box and ship FedEx.

They said "expect 2 weeks for delivery, however if there is a shortage of a particular combination it may take up to 3 weeks". My plane leaves on the 26th of September but I have to clear my rifle and ammunition for the airline a week earlier, so hopefully the gun will arrive by the 19th next month, which it should. It is supposed to be zeroed before delivery since I will be ordering a scope for it aswell. So I will take it to the range once and test it out (only a few shots as to avoid undue injury to my shoulder) and I should be ready to go to Africa and slay some beasts and turn them into trophies

Alright so right now I am pretty much teetering between the .308 Warbird with a batch of 180gr lubed Swift A-Frame, or the .338 Titan with a batch of 225gr Swift A-frame. I'm pretty sure I want the L2005LTH Thumbhole rifle with the Schmidt and Bender 3-12X50 pro hunter scope in Mil-dot.

I don't want too much rifle for the smaller game and I don't want too little rifle for the Water Buffalo. What to pick...

Or should I just get a dangerous game rifle chambered in .375 Saturn, .461 Meteor, or .475 Bibamifu for pleasant overkill, then just bring my .270 for the smaller game in addition to the new rifle?

 

[Sven]

Yeah, when is the safari? 2008?

 

[db_tanker]

Bigger is always better, IMO...

I would go with the .375 and leave that variable power scope alone...this is going to be a dangerous game rifle...and I would highly suggest a stout 4x scope, if ANY kind of scope...you look at most of the pro guides in the world that have to deal with dangerous game...they use express sights.

you have a big cat, upset bull, or mad sow protecting her cubs coming after you the last thing you want to worry about is getting the crosshairs on that critter.


And lastly, if it were my daughters hand in question...instead of the fanciest rifle her suitor would do much better by bringing somthing along that has been proven more times that can be imagined...a 375 H&H...or if you want to be fancy and practical, then by God get a 416 Rigby or 470 Nitro...you can find chamberings for them in a good express double and still spend about as much as on that Lazzeroni...

like this.... http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/c...tory/mitchell/fine_rifle/475563_cz550_mit.jsp



MTCW
D

 

[LeonCarr]

I would also go with a nice Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in .375 H&H, and with the money saved from that Lazzeroni thingy I would also purchase a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in .458 Winchester and take it also.

Fancy velocity and muzzle energy figures aren't worth squat if you can't hit the target. The .375 H&H and the .458 Winchester are much cheaper to shoot than any Lazzeroni cartridge, which means that you will shoot them more, and you will be more proficient with them. Shooting the rifle once at the range and then taking it to Africa to hunt lions could get you killed. I also think that you will impress your rich, macho, cocky soon to be father-in-law much more if you drop all of your game with one shot.

I hope this girl is both smoking hot and the love of your life, because I will reinterate that taking a brand new or new to you rifle that you are not familiar with to Africa to hunt dangerous game could get you killed.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Metapotent]

Yeah, when is the safari? 2008?

September. Next month.


By the way I already have a Remington 700 in .375 H&H mag with a 1.75-5X power scope that I inherited from my dad and that I have used once for black bear. But this would be extreme overkill I believe when shooting Gazelles and other smallish game animals that I will be hunting in wide variety in Africa.

Plus, at the place where I will be going 500+ meter shots are common due to the wide-open grasslands. I want a gun that has an extremely flat trajectory yet also packs enough energy at long range.

I have confidence in my ability to hit something at that range when all I have to do is hold over 15 inches. Flinching is not an issue because I am not really intimidated by any gun. But the issue is accuracy, flat trajectory, knock-down power and versatility. I don't doubt the knock-down power of the .375 H&H but I do doubt my own ability to hit anything with it past 300 yds.

Also, I don't have the time or inclination to research wildcat cartridges and so far I have found that a Lazzeroni would be in my best interest.

 

[kjeff50cal]

As a beleaver in Mr. Murphy and all his Bros., When you get your Lazz in whatever caliber you feel is right, find room in your "kit" for your .375 H&H Mag. Ammo, especially custom ammo, "may get lost" on a days journey by jet and there are very few sporting goods stores in the bush that may carry .308 Warbird or .338 Titan. .375 H&H is common there as .30-06 is here.... You don't want to turn you Safari into a Photo-Safari nor ask the PH for his back-up rifle. At least it looks like you are prepared for everything and may win points in your FIL tobe's book.

 

[kumma]

What caliber did the rifle makers suggest for you? It seems they would be most qualified to offer caliber suggestions. For your sake I hope you do get a chance to shoot the rifle before you head out for your safari, after all it doesnt really matter if the gun cost $100 or $10000 if you cant shoot straight.

 

[Metapotent]

What caliber did the rifle makers suggest for you? It seems they would be most qualified to offer caliber suggestions. For your sake I hope you do get a chance to shoot the rifle before you head out for your safari, after all it doesnt really matter if the gun cost $100 or $10000 if you cant shoot straight.

I havent asked for suggestions from the rifle maker because I'm sure out of good business sense they would suggest the most expensive chamber/rifle/scope combination they had.

I will be taking it to the range to make sure the scope is zeroed appropriately and to see what kind of 3-shot group it can manage.

But as long as the rifle and ammo is functioning properly and I am familiar with the ballistics, I can shoot straight and hit what I am shooting at. I have no doubt in my ability to shoot effectively in any rifle if it is effective.

 

[Terrierman]

Never mind

 

[270Win]

Man, what a HORRIBLE sounding father-in-law. If this safari fails to impress, I'd just elope in Vegas...

 

[Coronach]

1. next month? You want to order a pretty-much custom rifle, get a rifle, sight it in and become proficient with it in a month? This is not going to happen. Especially when we're talking a rifle with ammo that is several bucks a pop. I don't care how much you make. Even if you have the money to burn, you don't have the time.

2. You really need to consider whether impressing him is worth all this. My opinion? It's not. She might be worth all of the bother, but here is a big hint; if she is, you won't have to go to silly lengths to impress her father. She'll like you despite what he thinks, as long as you've been respectful and done your reasonable best to extend the olive branch. If she really thinks you need to go plunk down crazy loot on a rifle so you can go hobnob with the uppercrust in order to win her hand, run far and run fast. Even if the safari goes well, the marriage will not.

Good luck.

Mike