Lead Poisoning 8^(

[helpwanted]

How many reloaders have had lead poisoning? Do you worry about it? What steps do you take to minimize exposure?

I've never had my blood lead levels checked, but I'm thinking about it. In addition to washing hands/face after reloading, I change clothes after reloading and never re-wear until I've washed them. I've also invested in a few boxes of latex gloves that I wear when reloading. I wipe down everything with wet paper towels and vacuum/sweep the area whenever I get a chance. I suppose I should switch over to jacketed bullets entirely, but haven't done that yet. Am I worrying too much?

 

[shermacman]

You are not worrying too much. I don't know anything about chelating agents and "safe" blood levels, but I do know a whole bunch of people who have such elevated levels that they can't shoot. It happens and it is common.

 

[Matthew748]

I have been thinking about using gloves while I reload with lead bullets. Right now I do not, but after loading I scrub my hands with a brush in warm soapy water. I also do all of my shooting outdoors. As I understand it, shooting lead bullets indoors can be hazardous in terms of lead exposure, especially if ventilation is poor.

 

[Ol` Joe]

I can`t say for sure but, I believe it`s casters that have the worry of lead problems. The breathing the vapor form is much worse then particals from handling it. Vapors are the reason for the venting at indoor ranges, more so then removing the dust on the floors. Keeping you and your area clean is a big step in preventing problems.

 

[Third_Rail]

Don't sweep, only vacuum with a good filter - sweeping will throw dust up, which is what you need to avoid.

Other than that, your procedures seem good.

 

[brickeyee]

Ranges require ventilation since almost all primers use lead styphnate as the ‘actual active ingredient’. This produces organic lead vapor that can be easily absorbed into the body. The other lead source is lead vapor from the powder flame acting on lead bullets.
Metalic lead is a very minor problem since it cannot be absorbed readily into the body. Wash you hands after handling lead and do not eat or drink while handling lead.
The amount of vapor produced at normal casting temperatures is very low. Using a flame to melt lead can produce significant vapor.

 

[Jayman]

Define "Lead Poisoning?"

I've had elevated levels. Like 34 mcg/dl. A friend of mine had over 40. Anything in the double digits is honestly higher than it should be, but OSHA won't stop you from doing a job around lead unless your level crosses 40.

I started taking further precautions like wearing a respirator at the range. Last check my level was 14. I'd prefer it less than 10, but 14 beats 40.

Your precautions seem fine. I don't shoot lead bullets/reload lead bullets. Only plated or coated. I don't sort brass or tumble brass indoors. I think the tumble and the separation steps of reloading are also prime candidates for getting you a big lungful of lead dust.

 

[zahc]

Can you metabolize the lead, or can your lead level drop over time or is it like accumulative?

 

[helpwanted]

From emedicine:
"Although no blood level of lead is considered safe, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) have established 10 mcg/dL as the level of concern."

As I understand it, the effects of lead are cumulative as it accumulates in your bones. It can cause anemia, gi distress, peripheral neuropathy, and the scariest of all, cognitive impairment. Lead is especially a danger to children who have developing brains. Yes, I think absorption through the lungs is the easiest route of exposure. No more sweeping for me and maybe I should start wearing a mask.

 

[Jayman]

Some gets excreted, some ends up in your bones. The thing that causes the actual poisoning though, is the level in your blood, and that is the point of immediate concern.

So if you have a higher level but you then reduce/eliminate your exposure afterwards, your blood levels will drop.

 

[Sunray]

"...casters that..." Only if they cast in a non or poorly ventilated space.
"...it accumulates in your bones..." It accumulates in your fat. In any case, unless you're handling and breathing tons of lead on a regular basis, you really have nothing to worry about.
However, wearing a dust mask while shooting indoors is a good idea. An inexpensive surgical type mask will do.

 

[bakert]

Breathing dust from a tumbler not a good idea either.

 

[P95Carry]

I forget who mentioned it recently - but IIRC fumes from a lead pot only really get problematic if lead is boiling - which would be very elevated compared with casting temp.

Lead particulates are nasty - if ingested or inhaled - one of the things I do not like too much about indoor anges, even well ventilated, is airborn particlates and styphnate ''fallout''.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I'm gonna die anyway!!!

Geeez...Guys. Maybe we should give up shooting all together if it's that dangerous on the grip side of the firearm. I sometimes think we get a little paranoid (or at least some of us). I'm going to die anyway (in about 38 years). Let's get a grip fellows...And I know that lead poisoning is bad for you. I just don't think we are exposed to that much. I have never heard of someone dying of lead poisoning from shooting, just from being shot. I load jacketed bullets. The way you guys are trying to scare everyone I am glad that I load jacket bullets and hate indoor ranges. I wouldn't be caught dead (probably the wrong wording here, but...) in an indoor range. For a couple of reasons, none of which is breathing lead....

 

[helpwanted]

Jayman not necessarily. Since your bones are the long term storage area of lead in your body, the lead in your bones will be released into your blood at a rate proportional to bone turnover. Depending on how much lead has accumulated in your bones, it could take quite a while for your blood lead levels to fall. If you have a condition of increased bone turnover, such as immobility or malunutrition, all of sudden you could have a very high blood lead level even without another exposure. But yes, you are right, the BLL is a good measurement given steady state bone turnover. Lead accumulates in all tissues and some are more susceptible to its effects than others, such as nervous tissue and bone marrow. The bone is ultimately where most of it ends up in the long term.

I was wondering if I was worrying too much, but I read an article awhile back that a paint chip no larger than your thumbnail when they used to use lead based paint in houses, if ingested, was enough to cause encephalopathy and death in children.

 

[The Bushmaster]

One of the paint primers that was used in the US NAVY for many years was called Red Lead. A gallon of it weighed about 4 to 5 times that of a regular gallon of paint. We used it in and on every part of our ships, both on deck, bulkheads and in the engine rooms. In those days without gloves. The ballist aboard most ships was lead inguts weighing around 50 to 60 lbs (I know this as I have one from my last ship, a MSO). I've spent 45 years as a mechanic which exposes me to lead/acid batteries. I've hand loaded for more then 20 years. My blood shows very little lead expossure in all those years.

Oh. And by the way...Most of the children that were exposed to lead paint by eating it were underfed and from very poor families. Not bad mouthin' the poor...I was raised very poor, just didn't have an incling to chew window sills.

 

[peteinct]

Lead in the blood

Hi, I've had elevated lead levels in my blood which were only found when I was looking for something else. It was from shooting indoors. I only went once a week and only shot jacketed bullets.

Somehow the primer smoke has a lot of lead in it and once the lead is airborne it is easily adsorbed by your body. I work in a chemical plant and the big thing about chemical poisoning is how it gets into your body. It is easier for something to get in by your lungs then through your skin. But it is easy for stuff to get in by your mouth so wash your hands before you eat or smoke after shooting.

While I don't think a little bit of lead is a huge deal, if you can avoid an exposure I would do so. As a previous poster said lead is worse for kids because they are still growing. I also believe that our gun cleaners are bad for you. I wear nitrile gloves when cleaning and try not to breathe the fumes.
pete

 

[brickeyee]

The lead in paint is lead acetate (AKA 'sugar of lead'). It is very readily absorbed if it enters the body. It was used as a drier and hardener in paint.
'Red lead' paint uses lead oxide as a pigment. It is not nearly as harmful as lead acetate.
The lead vapor from primers is the main range hazard. Lead styphnate forms a slew of products when it mixes with the nitrates and other products of smokeless powder. The very high temperatures involved allow for a lot of ‘odd’ combinations that would not be expected at lower temperatures.
Powder flames on the bases of bullets also vaporize some lead, and the vapors can combine with smokeless powder products also to create a witches brew of easily absorbed compounds.
Bullets are left in shooting victims every day with zero concern for lead poisoning. The body simply cannot absorb metallic lead to any great degree. Even swallowed lead shot just passes through with no contribution to body burden.

 

[The Bushmaster]

The US NAVY outlawed Red Lead just before I retired (1986). Although you don't need Red Lead paint on a Mine Sweep (MSO) as they were made of wood in those days. (Iron men on Wooden Ships)

I guess that's one more reason that I will continue to shoot out of doors.

 

[Jayman]

Good point about the bones, that lead can and will leech back into your bloodstream, but it is not typically a big contributor.

I'm not suggesting that people stop shooting, only that they take precautions adequate for their needs. Shooting indoors, IMHO, requires a bit more care than outdoors. Reloading also requires a bit more care than just using factory ammo, as you are exposed to more things (primers, lead dust from tumbling, etc.)

Much like we obey the 4 rules of firearms safety, we should also beware of lead exposure. That's all I'm sayin'...

 

[Joejojoba111]

So with the right primer you could shoot outdoors without any worries?

Which primer?

 

[P95Carry]

''Which primer''??

Well these days most centerfire primers are based on same thing - which is probably lead styphnate. Early corrosive stuff is probably chlorate based.

But if outdoors then you have about the ultimate ventilation and unless wind/breeze blowing in your face - no problem. If tho you could smell every shot real strong then maybe you could be inhaling some ''fallout''. Broadly - outdoors = hazard free IMO.

 

[brickeyee]

Winclean is a non-lead based primer.

 

[BigSlick]

PMC offers a lineup of heavy metal free primers.

I have never seen them for sale - anywhere.

They sound ok, and if they perform, I might check out a box or two.

Has anyone loaded these ? Know where to buy them without having to explain the whole thing a dozen times ?

BigSlick

 

[The Bushmaster]

So far here in The SSR of C they haven't put any of the lead free primers for sale. I bet that they are going to use up the old primers first. Has anyone seen any of the lead free primers for sale??