Lee Pro 6000 Case Feed Issue

[Stefan A]

I know you guys don't believe me, but I still think the too big tubing and too big openings that open too soon and allow sideways movement....cause this. Look at the APP video before I corrected it.....look familiar?

And look at the difference once I closed off all that sideways movement with smaller tubes and holes that prevented sideways movement of the case next in line.

I believe you. I’ve noticed the play inside of the tubes with the thinner cases. But, even though the tube is oversized, it looks like the feed plate narrows. Still, it’s worth looking into. I’m going to try adding weight first.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I know you guys don't believe me, but I still think the too big tubing and too big openings that open too soon and allow sideways movement....cause this. Look at the APP video before I corrected it.....look familiar?

I believed you, even before the videos.

I'm having the opposite issue with my APP...which I'm switching from decapping .38Spl to start swaging 9mm. Too much space in the feed tube allowing the the casehead to drag on the top of the slider and not falling into the jaws. Luckily I still have the smaller diameter tubes from when I played around making a bullet feeder work with Lee tubes. I've even considered filing a ramp/chamfer into the top of the slides to allow the smaller rim to clear

 

[9mmepiphany]

But, even though the tube is oversized, it looks like the feed plate narrows.

You want to control the case column as much as you can to get reliable feeding...you want everything to drop as vertically as possible. Another lesson learned playing with after market bullet feeders...and which lead me to loading flat nose bullets rather then round nose ones

 

[LiveLife]

Tube 1 - 3 tipped over
Tube 2 - 3 tipped over
Tube 3 - 3 tipped over

Something is definitely not right.

I don't currently load .38Spl and PIF my .38Spl/.357Mag brass during current shortage so couldn't check the case feeding of .38Spl brass on my SPP/Pro 6000 but found this video.

All the .38Spl cases dropped upright and at 4:24/6:27 minute of video, second to last .38Spl cases drop from the feed tube without the "flick" you are experiencing.

So I wonder what's causing your cases to tip over?

 

[GW Staar]

Stefan, inside that 4-way there is a tiny ledge near the bottom just above the side case cutout, and sometimes it makes a case hang or even fall crooked. If you drop a 1/2" thinwall inside Lee's tube supplying that smaller sized opening you prevent cases from even feeling that ledge.

Weight may help, but I doubt it, but even so Lee's thing with feeding the last four primers and the last four cases is annoying. There's not a lot of weight available with the last four....primers or cases. As 9mmepiphany said, drop everything as vertical as possible, and if it starts falling forward, backward, or sideways, you WILL have problems. On the bottom of my 4-way (pre 3D-printer days) I raised my 4-way to account for clear shaped tubing forced in from the bottom, to direct the columns down, and prevented opening too soon, allowing sideways deflection, and big trouble. What the vids I just posted showed is what minimum dia. downtube with ONLY forward cutouts could do......but before I 3D printed parts I used the clear tubes with shaped side openings as the picture below shows....

They may be ugly, but they worked because cases could not fall sideways, being "kept" by cutouts that were forward of the side diameter lines....
the later 3-D printed versions more clearly show this....picture below.....(left cutout too far back to the Diameter line and did NOT work, the right one is cut as far forward as possible and it did work with a full heavy stack or the last case in the stack...no matter.)

Below a 357 pistol version cut forward that works every time. (Which I also use just as successfully on the 6000.

Below: Close-up of the cutout....notice the case is "kept" sideways and not allowed to go any way but forward......and about that.....forward pushing of the slider has to be from the bottom or very close to it or it can fall forward......I know from experience....and it's why I'm spending the time to help you NOT experience it.
Mostly it is the next case in line that causes the problems, if it's not "kept" long enough.


You don't have to have a printer....but you do need thin-wall clear tubing in various diameters. Someday Lee is going to see the light and make them perform this well out of the box.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Below a 357 pistol version cut forward that works every time. (Which I also use just as successfully on the 6000.

Obviously something I need to add to the list once I start 3D printing.

Hornady offers a piece they call the Anti-tip sleeve to slips onto the end of the tube, of their case feeder, that drops cases onto the frame extension that the case pusher rides on. What is interesting is that their piece faces backwards (toward the pusher) so that it "traps" cases between the pusher and the sleeve to keep them from bouncing off the rail...the cut out clears the body of the pusher

 

[GW Staar]

Obviously something I need to add to the list once I start 3D printing.

Hornady offers a piece they call the Anti-tip sleeve to slips onto the end of the tube, of their case feeder, that drops cases onto the frame extension that the case pusher rides on. What is interesting is that their piece faces backwards (toward the pusher) so that it "traps" cases between the pusher and the sleeve to keep them from bouncing off the rail...the cut out clears the body of the pusher

Sounds interesting! I looked but I couldn't find that. Any pictures of it?

 

[9mmepiphany]

I got the name wrong...it's even cuter...it's called a Tip Stop. Here's a picture from Midway



Installed



A 3D printed version

 

[GW Staar]

Guess you have to have a Hornady AP to understand what it does. But usually simple is good, and that looks simple.

All the parts in that picture look as cobbled together as some of my contraptions.

 

[Stefan A]

Some more evidence

I think Lee has given up on me - no more replies. The videos below show how the cases are tilted resting on top of the case feeder. This may be why they don't always stick the landing. Of course, this has been mentioned by several people and I am starting to think more and more that this is the problem - or at least a problem. Having a smaller inner diameter of the feed plate would probably fix this - as has been pointed out. I tried to slick up the surface of the top of the case feeder - to prevent it from tilting - so it would glide more smoothly. That didn't prevent the problem. Adding more weight (I put a dummy round in the tube) did not help.

Then, an interesting thing happened. I decided to clean off the surface that the case slides on. It was definitely dirty. Cleaned it with some balistol. I didn't have high hopes because I figured a cleaner slicker surface would further make the case unstable. But, to my surprise, I had far less problems after that. Could it be as simple as cleaning that little ramp?



https://youtube.com/shorts/-Wg1qxfKNTw (top view. can't seem to embed because it's a short...)

 

[9mmepiphany]

All the parts in that picture look as cobbled together as some of my contraptions

I wouldn't disagree. The upside is that it did teach me about how angles work when moving cases...more/tighter isn't always good. It also appealed to my interest in how levers and slopes worked...sort of like why I like the Colt Python action more than the S&W revolver action.

The Tip Stop slips onto the Case Drop (there are 3 sizes) which only funnels the case from the silver piece just above it. The gray block (also with 3 size inserts) above that transfers the case from the output tube (2 sizes) of the collator (4 size plates). The tip that pushes the case is bolted onto the case pusher/slider...there are 6 different size tips for different diameter cases. To make the case feeder run really smoothly, you need to add 3D printed inserts for the gray block...otherwise multiple cases follow each other into the Case Drop. There are other hacks, but they are just for convenience of caliber changeovers

 

[9mmepiphany]

Could it be as simple as cleaning that little ramp?

It was interesting when you said, in the video, that the tilt was caused by the excess room in the tube. The extra room doesn't cause the tilt, it allows it.

The tilt is caused by the drag, on the case, by the top of the slider.

Clean is good, polishing the top of the slider... thinking smoothing out the mold line...might be even better. Be sure you polish/sand in the same direction as the movement of the slider.

 

[LiveLife]

I tried to slick up the surface of the top of the case feeder ... That didn't prevent the problem. Adding more weight (I put a dummy round in the tube) did not help.

Then, an interesting thing happened. I decided to clean off the surface that the case slides on. It was definitely dirty. Cleaned it with some balistol ... to my surprise, I had far less problems after that.

Already did most of the "root cause analysis" for you in post #459 and #461 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-19#post-12595578

So without examining the case feeder/slider in person and only referencing the slowed down video, I am leaning towards these:

- As case slider is pushed back by spring, friction with rim of bottom case is applying force to rim away from the press
- Force applied to the rim of bottom case may be applying tilting force on the case mouth towards the press
- As mouth of bottom case clears the case feeder, force applied to the rim is "flicking" the case to tip

So, cleaning the top of case slider improved the case tipping ... Hmmmm.

Looking at the case slider closer (Keep in mind that I did not have the benefit of examining the press parts closely in person), I can see damage (Even to produce rounded edge) so I think the source cause could be damaged case slider that needs to be replaced.

And how did the damage happen to the top of case slider? Likely user induced as I doubt the case slider was shipped from Lee damaged like that.

The tilt is caused by the drag, on the case, by the top of the slider.

Clean is good, polishing the top of the slider... thinking smoothing out the mold line...might be even better. Be sure you polish/sand in the same direction as the movement of the slider.

I agree but at this point, I would recommend parts replacement of the case slider as video I embedded in post #473 shows .38Spl brass dropping down to last 4-5 cases without tipping - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-19#post-12596017

So why did the video not show tipping of .38Spl cases but some THR members experienced similar .38Spl case tipping problem?

Perhaps similar things were happening and damaged case slider could have been the cause?

 

[Stefan A]

So, cleaning the top of case slider improved the case tipping ... Hmmmm.

I did clean the top, but that is not what improved the problem. It was cleaning the ramp that the slider and cases are on. The ramp that leads directly to the shell plate.

And how did the damage happen to the top of case slider?

what damage are you seeing?

 

[GW Staar]

There is another factor that could be causing some of the trouble......the cases themselves. I have seen some brands of cases that just don't slide well...

Some of the causes.....factory embossing on the case heads are not always smooth....especially some military brass have heads rough as hell.....or firing pin dimples that are raised and prevent smooth sliding. Or even proud primers themselves.....I've experienced all of the above more than once. Had some LC brass once that I had to smooth the bottoms with a file they were so bad. Most aren't but I always check when things go south.

 

[LiveLife]

I did clean the top, but that is not what improved the problem. It was cleaning the ramp that the slider and cases are on

As I already posted, I do not have the benefit of examining your press/parts in person and can only work with information you are providing.

Since this thread is specific to SPP/Pro 6000 and your .38Spl case feeding issue may be applicable to other presses that use the same case feeder, perhaps new thread to focus on your case feeding problem could be more appropriate.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Since this thread is specific to SPP/Pro 6000 and your .38Spl case feeding issue may be applicable to other presses that use the same case feeder, perhaps new thread to focus on your case feeding problem could be more appropriate.

I agree and have moved the appropriate posts to it's own thread

I've also done some editing of the first two post to make the transition cleaner

 

[LiveLife]

I agree and have moved the appropriate posts to it's own thread

I've also done some editing of the first two post to make the transition cleaner

Thank you.

 

[Stefan A]

Thanks for making this a new thread. I didn’t realize it would be so extensive.

 

[Stefan A]

As I already posted, I do not have the benefit of examining your press/parts in person and can only work with information you are providing.

I think you're missing my point. I simply corrected you by letting you know which part I cleaned that made a difference. It was the ramp that leads to the shellplate. I also cleaned the top of the slider, but that didn't make any difference in the performance.

 

[Stefan A]

Anyway, this morning I loaded 4 full magazines of 38 special without a single feeding problem. That’s a far cry from my tests that I posted above where almost every case when 4 or less cases were in the magazines fell. Since doing those tests, the only changes I have made was cleaning the ramp, and the top of the slider. Plus slight adjustments to the positioning of the feed plate. As noted above, I first started noticing improvements after cleaning the ramp leading to the shell plate. So, I’m left thinking that cleaning that surface is an important thing to do regularly. I actually look forward to the problem happening again, just so I can clean the ramp again and see if that’s the answer.

 

[Tilos]

Stefan, inside that 4-way there is a tiny ledge near the bottom just above the side case cutout, and sometimes it makes a case hang or even fall crooked. If you drop a 1/2" thinwall inside Lee's tube supplying that smaller sized opening you prevent cases from even feeling that ledge.

Weight may help, but I doubt it, but even so Lee's thing with feeding the last four primers and the last four cases is annoying. There's not a lot of weight available with the last four....primers or cases. As 9mmepiphany said, drop everything as vertical as possible, and if it starts falling forward, backward, or sideways, you WILL have problems. On the bottom of my 4-way (pre 3D-printer days) I raised my 4-way to account for clear shaped tubing forced in from the bottom, to direct the columns down, and prevented opening too soon, allowing sideways deflection, and big trouble. What the vids I just posted showed is what minimum dia. downtube with ONLY forward cutouts could do......but before I 3D printed parts I used the clear tubes with shaped side openings as the picture below shows....
View attachment 1144368
They may be ugly, but they worked because cases could not fall sideways, being "kept" by cutouts that were forward of the side diameter lines....
the later 3-D printed versions more clearly show this....picture below.....(left cutout too far back to the Diameter line and did NOT work, the right one is cut as far forward as possible and it did work with a full heavy stack or the last case in the stack...no matter.)
View attachment 1144369
Below a 357 pistol version cut forward that works every time. (Which I also use just as successfully on the 6000.
View attachment 1144370
Below: Close-up of the cutout....notice the case is "kept" sideways and not allowed to go any way but forward......and about that.....forward pushing of the slider has to be from the bottom or very close to it or it can fall forward......I know from experience....and it's why I'm spending the time to help you NOT experience it.
Mostly it is the next case in line that causes the problems, if it's not "kept" long enough.
View attachment 1144371

You don't have to have a printer....but you do need thin-wall clear tubing in various diameters. Someday Lee is going to see the light and make them perform this well out of the box.

Here's the 3d print file for the "case gate" for the six pack case feeder:
Thing files for Lee Case Feed Swing Gate by minerburns - Thingiverse
Called the swing gate.
Found it here 1st:
(2) Lee Precision Six Pack Progressive Press, users group. | Here is another solution to the problem of the case feeder droping cases on the floor or under the top plate | Facebook
jmo,
.

 

[R44 flyer]

I am having problems with the case feed through and would like some advice. 2 main problems. First, when I get down to 1-4 cases left in the tube, a case will drop onto the slider but then tip over. Either the case just falls to the floor, or it moves forward of the guide and then I get a double feed. This is pretty consistent and is really frustrating me. Of course, everything has to stop and I have to clean it up. The other issue is that occasionally the case does not get pushed all the way onto the shell plate. If I manage to notice in time, I can just set it correctly. But sometimes I don't notice it and I end up screwing up the case mouth. It's trashed when that happens.

I was just on Titan reloading and they have a new case feed for the Six pack. It is a 5 tube system and is quick change.

 

[Tilos]

Here's the 3d print file for the "case gate" for the six pack case feeder:
Thing files for Lee Case Feed Swing Gate by minerburns - Thingiverse
Called the swing gate.
Found it here 1st:
(2) Lee Precision Six Pack Progressive Press, users group. | Here is another solution to the problem of the case feeder droping cases on the floor or under the top plate | Facebook
jmo,
.

Here is that swing gate for sale on Esty:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1493060596/3d-printed-lee-case-feeder-trap-door-to?click_key=355199e10ca7272569349fa938fc28c30b2fb235%3A1493060596&click_sum=d4f46a0b&ref=search_recently_viewed-2&sts=1

.