LNL AP - primer shuttle problem

[editingfx]

Switching from a LCT to the LNL; watching the videos & setting up the press I've been impressed with what looks like is a well designed system. Got all my dies set & tweaked, powder drop is spot-on, final step was loading primers & going to town. (sound effect of screeching brakes)

Well, seems that the primer shuttle doesn't want to work reliably. Since I'm doing 45ACP, I've got the large primer parts on. What happens is that after the ram upstroke, the shuttle is all the way out, but then on the downstroke, it doesn't snap back - it stays extended, even though the spring is got it under tension. If I loosen the shuttle "cover" bolt, so it's not even finger tight (loose enough so the cover can move about), and wiggle the shuttle, then it'll snap in. So it seems as if it's binding on something. I've degreased & dry lubed it along with everything else during setup. I could start sanding away, but wanted to see if others had this problem & I'm missing something dumb. Will call Hornady tomorrow if I'm still head scratching.

BTW - yes, the primer feed tube has the chamfered end on the bottom

Another question: if you don't use a 2nd powder meter, what tricks do you use to get the meter into the approximate location for the load you want? I figured that using "exposed thread count" should work. eg; for 8.6gr of AA#5, show 11 threads. (obviously weighing before loading!!)

 

[Dynamite Rabbit]

When the shuttle on my press sticks it's always because the primer punch has hung up. If the top of the punch isn't below the top of the outer ring it's too high. The slightest debris will keep it from retracting all the way.

 

[cfullgraf]

There was a thread several months ago that a fellow talked about things to do to make the L-N-L priming system work. Look for it.

After fiddling with with the primer system for 800-1000 rounds, I took it off my L-N-L and hand prime. I prefer to clean cases between resizing and reloading any way and I prefer the mouth expansion made by an expanding die versus the PDX expander so no big deal for me. I can hand prim 100 cases in about the time it takes to fill a primer tube.

 

[editingfx]

I'd made notes earlier from the thread you refer to, but other than not polishing the metal, everything else seems kosher. The primer pick up hole centers perfectly under the drop tube. The shuttle operates perfectly without primers in the tube. It so far has worked 100% with a single primer dropped into the long primer tube and then cycled. Possible that it's been 100% with two (didn't notate that). But make it 3 or 4 + primers in the tube, and it hangs on the "out" stroke (top of ram stroke) frequently.

 

[Uncle Richard]

Agree with Dynamite, a little bit of debris will hang it up and the primer punch maybe to high. Recommend keeping a can of compressed air to blow off press periodically.

When in doubt, call Hornady, excellent customer service. The press should not need any modification to work properly. It takes a little tweaking and self education, than it will run great.

 

[rockns]

I had a similar issue, found a post to use small file and lightly smooth edges not round just free of burrs and leave outer tube around primer tube loose, no oil on the parts.

 

[Otto]

The primer slide has a small wheel that rides up and down on the metal rod (aka. primer feed cam).
You can try to loosen the top of the slide rod (black bracket at the top) and move it back a little.
Sometimes this rod isn't adjusted at the factory and will bind the primer slide.

Also, get some 2000 grit paper at WalMart and polish any metal to metal contact.

 

[john16443]

Another question: if you don't use a 2nd powder meter, what tricks do you use to get the meter into the approximate location for the load you want? I figured that using "exposed thread count" should work. eg; for 8.6gr of AA#5, show 11 threads. (obviously weighing before loading!!)

A trick I used for my Lee Pro Auto and now my LNL AP dispenser is to spend a little time with each powder and create a quick cheat sheet that shows what powder weights are discharged at a given setting (turns open). For instance, closing the metering insert all the way to the stop is zero turns open. Make a mark on the knob at the 12:00 position so you have an index point. Now open the insert one complete turn (or how many you want, just make it a complete turn from the index point). Cycle 10 throws of your AA#5 (or whatever powder you use) through the dispenser without weighing. This will settle the powder. Weigh the next 10 or 20 throws and average the result. This is what 1 turn open should throw for AA#5. Repeat for additional turns open until you cover the range of weights you expect to use for that powder. Repeat for all the powders. Now you'll have a reference point for your powders and how many turns from full closed to get you where you want to be. As you say, verify before seating bullets.

I did this with the Hornady micrometer insert for pistol. It has numbers on it that I use as an equivalent to turns open. I've created the same type of chart as noted above based on each 1/10th number increment, so when I want to throw 4.5 grains of W231 for 9mm, all I do is turn the micrometer to 4.0, cycle a few through it, and I'm spot on where I want to be. Change over to 4.2 grains WST, set the micrometer to that value and go.

 

[J_McLeod]

I had a problem like that with mine, and I ended up calling Hornady about it. They had great customer service after I spent 20-30 minutes on hold. The technician there knew exactly how to solve the problem and stayed on the line while I verified it. With my LNL, the adjustment on the bar was slightly off. Try loosening the nut at the top of the press and then adjusting the bar further out.

 

[Rmeju]

Hey there,

Welcome to the Red Team. It's a great place to be! But no doubt the priming system is the LnL's weakest link. That said, mine is just about 100% problem free at this point, and yours can be, too. IMO it'd be a huge waste to write off the priming system on progressive! Also, maybe it's me, but I'm not 100% sure the rest of the posters are understanding your problem...

Messing with that little black cover on the top of the wire cam is for when your shuttle isn't going back far enough to actually pick up a primer. Getting compressed air for when your shuttle won't go all the way forward is for cleaning out the underside of your primer punch when it gets powder or shavings stuck under it, and thus raising it up a hair, which prevents the shuttle from moving into its final position. I actually use a toothbrush for that problem, but air would probably work fine. But that's not your problem either. Your problem is that the shuttle isn't going forward at all after it picks up the primer out of the tube, right?

The primer itself could be binding the shuttle, which might be why loosening the "shuttle cover bolt" isn't helping either. I have a very slim dowl rod (1/8", I think) that I drop into the filled primer tube, and cap that rod with a spent piece of steel AK brass for weight. This makes sure the primer gets all the way down and out of the tube, and into the shuttle. It also has the added benefit of telling me how many primers I have left in the tube (I marked the rod with a sharpie for 75, 50, 25, and 0 left in the tube). This may or may not fix your problem. If it does, you will need a skinnier dowl rod for the small primer tube (although I've never had my small primers bind in this way, but I've had this exact problem with large primers). On the very rare occasions that I have a large primer bind, I just take the shuttle by the wheel and jiggle it a little bit, which usually causes it to snap forward after a second. If these don't fix your problem, Hornday will help you. Don't give up!

As other posters have said, no lube! Lube and primers don't mix!

 

[editingfx]

Thanks guys! Yeah, Rmeju re-stated my problem exactly.

Odd though that I get 100% cycling if I only drop 1 or 2 primers into the tube, but more and it binds. Seems counter-intuitive that adding weight would solve the problem. But Hornady is including a very thin, light plastic rod for the primer tubes now (for indicating primers in tube), so I can easily add weight to it.

Add a de-burr is quick to achieve, so I'll try those two approaches before calling customer service.

Also, John, your "1 turn = x grains" idea is great! More accurate than counting threads exposed.

edit: just spoke to Hornady support (awesome) - they suggested polishing as well, but are sending out a new shuttle & spring anyway. I mentioned I wasn't sure which primers I was testing, Winchester or Wolf, as I took these out of my Lee primer. But I think I'll open a fresh card of Winchester & see if those do it as well. Wolf have given me other problems, so I wouldn't be surprised if that could be it here.

 

[777TRUTH]

I had to smooth out the rough/sharp edges on my shuttle for it to work properly.

 

[editingfx]

lol.... when it rains.... so I smooth the edges, seems to be working better, still not 100%.... maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 the shuttle sticks. BUT.... as I'm working through that, getting a feel for the press, the pin that holds the wheel on the shuttle decides to pop out! It appears to be a friction fitting, so looks like I'll have to wait on the new shuttle H is sending. sigh.

but I do feel once this priming issue is sorted out I'm gonna LOVE this press.

 

[floydster]

What?? Priming on the LNL AP rears it's ugly head again!!!

Take it from me, strip the priming system from your press and hand prime,you will be much happier.

I can hand prime 100 rounds almost as fast as loading the priming tubes and screwing around with the priming on this press.
I don't pull my hair out anymore and actually enjoy running my pre-preped cases thru the LNL.

 

[Mike 27]

I have read many many issues with the primer system, but I have have very little problem with it. I have to give a +1 that if you figure out what the problem is and get it fixed you will enjoy it. My only complaint is I would like it to seat the primers just a hair deeper but I have no issues with FTF's so can't really complain that much. I just notice that with my Lee SS and my RCBS primer they seat just a bit deeper

Mike.

 

[editingfx]

For those who are disparaging the LNL primer system, you have to remember I'm coming from a LCT, and those have FAR MORE threads about wonky primer feeds, I bet. In fact, I even got a thumbs up from Mr Lee's son for my 2 cent fix to the LCT's main problem. Unfortunately, the cheap easy fix would have be either 1) too complicated to make out of machine parts or 2) too cheap & cheesy to include in the kit as a "fix". lol... it consisted of 1" of duct tape and a single small zip tie. Fixed the problem 100%.

I'm confident I can beat the LNL into submission.

 

[Blue68f100]

My LNL is 100% on primer feed. Sled sticking is normally the rod out of adj. Look down the primer tube when you adj the rod. The primers require a dwell time to fall. If your over shooting your dwell time is off. The top part of the guide rod must be vertical any angle you loose dwell time. If right it will not make any difference whether your using SP or LP. I polished the sleds and the channel it runs in early on. I also knocked off the sharp edges on the bottom front of the sleds. This will keep debree from preventing the sled from going forward. Can air is your friend here, keep it clean.

I use a brass rod with a SP cap on one end and LP cap on the other. I used spent primers and removed the anvil and epoxied them to the rod. With this weight they will feed as fast as you can operate the ram.

 

[editingfx]

Aha? Maybe.

Some JB Weld put the shuttle pin back in place, so I was able to test some more. Deburred some more edges, tested, no joy. But in doing so, I noticed that the lower primer feed housing (it keeps the primer shuttle in place) had a very small bit of lateral play on the end with the screw. I moved that end away from where it was locked (this time), and VOILA! Just loaded 20 without a snag.

This may not be the fix, only 100 or so more will tell, but fingers crossed!

I may design a single LED circuit that lights up so I know when the shuttle closes, since it's hard to see the shuttle when operating on the other side of the press.

 

[BYJO4]

The purpose of a progressive press is to produce one loaded round with each pull of the handle which includes priming. I have not had any priming issues with either of my LNL AP presses. However, if I had an issue, I would call Hornady customer support while sitting in fornt of my press and have them walk me through correcting the problem. If they can't fix over the phone, ask them to ship the press back to them for needed adjustments. Customer Service is one of the reasons to buy a quality press. I'll admit that I'm not mechanically inclined and if not simple to fix over the phone, I'll let them do it. I did have one problem shortly after getting my first press which required me to send it to Hornady. Six days later I had it back and have since loaded 30,000 rounds on it without issue.

 

[Otto]

Some JB Weld put the shuttle pin back in place, so I was able to test some more....

I assume you mean the pin that the small plastic wheel rotates on. This pin free floats in the primer slide. The bent metal rod keeps it in place. I can't envision using JB Weld on anything with the LNL.

 

[editingfx]

I assume you mean the pin that the small plastic wheel rotates on. This pin free floats in the primer slide. The bent metal rod keeps it in place.

Lol... well, this one don't float no mo'. What happened was the slide would hang in the out position, then sometimes snap back into place as the ram lowered. The snap then shook the pin & wheel out of the slide. After the second time this happened, and I was done crawling around the floor looking for the wheel, I decided a fix was called for. While cycling the press, the wheel was always aligned with the cam rod, so I didn't see any issue JB'ing the pin in place.

H is sending another slide anyway from this morning's call. But I'll probably roll some more tonight to see how things go.

Update: just ran about 60-70, zero hiccups, perfect primer seating (better than the LCT) with good feel on the handle during the seat, perfect OAL, crimp, etc. A real joy to run.

I bought this because I found myself not going to the range as often when I'm busy with work, since I didn't have time to run enough with the LCT. And when I'm busy with work, that's when I can best afford to go shooting! So I think the LNL is going to get me back home on the range more often!

 

[bluetopper]

Loosen the outer upright priming tube. It can bind everything up. How, I don't know, but it can.

 

[777TRUTH]

There will be many inconveniences along the way with the LNL. Once you work all the kinks out you will love the press.

Just be patient and be prepared for a little frustration.

 

[editingfx]

Thanks to all who offered advice. Another update; last night I took out a sleeve of Wolf primers. These have always been a PIA to seat fully with the LCT. Ran about 50, and had absolutely no problems getting every single one below flush or just flush. Awesome. And it took almost no more effort than the Winchesters. So that's a good thing, as I had even started trying to trade away the Wolf since they were so hard to seat in the LCT.