Looking for load data: 357 Subsonic from a rifle (158g W231)

[Macchina]

I have a threaded Ruger 77/357 and a 358 suppressor. I'm looking to load heavy copper plated X-Treme Bullets 158g in 357 brass. I have 38 special brass but don't want a powder ring in my chamber (it's only ever shot 357 brass).

Looking to stay just under subsonic as this will be a nighttime critter load.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

That carbon ring will clean right out with normal cleaning, but I agree that it’s easier if you just use .357 Mag brass. Probably the easiest route is to just load regular .38 Special loads in your .357 brass. The difference in case volume will probably reduce your velocity 50-100 fps, so stay away from low minimums, and use a chronograph (if you have one) to verify your velocity. Don’t reduce powders like H110 though.

 

[Targa]

I think that subsonic will be a tough hurdle to overcome, at least with W231.

 

[EricBu]

I have a threaded Ruger 77/357 and a 358 suppressor. I'm looking to load heavy copper plated X-Treme Bullets 158g in 357 brass. I have 38 special brass but don't want a powder ring in my chamber (it's only ever shot 357 brass).

Looking to stay just under subsonic as this will be a nighttime critter load.

You can get there with TiteGroup, start at the top end of 38 SPL and work up and down until you're sitting around 850 fps or so. Take a brass rod to the range with you when working up non-book sub loads and be mindful that suppressed, sometimes it's hard to tell that a round didn't clear the barrel.....so always watch for hits, and when in doubt rod your gun. If you are going to shoot plated through a can with roll crimped calibers......you need to be super careful with your crimp.....to the point where I'd get a taper crimp die (357 Sig,9mm if you have either of those already), or use a Redding Profile crimp die. Xtremes roll crimp cut super easy...and you'll never notice until you're pushing it through a can and you get pieces of plating on the baffles. I stick to coated, a 158 Hi-Tek coated SWC is a sweet coyote killer through a can and near hollywood quiet.

 

[ericuda]

Nice thoughts on redding crimp dies. Profile and taper are both well designed to do a good job.

For uniformity I'd also trim brass so all are the same.

 

[Thomasss]

Hodgdon has a .38 Special loads that drop down to near 750fps using Trail Boss. You might also find a cowboy load using Goex or FF 777. The only problem is that bullet might not clear you rifle barrel. Hodgdon has a warning to that effect.

 

[MEHavey]

3.5 - 4.0gr W231 / 357bbrass
Assumes Berry's 158(TC)FP/ 1.59" OAL /18" barrel
925 - 1,000fps

Lawyerspeak of the obvious: YMMV of course,
...so take a range rod and a chronograph

 

[JohnB-40]

I have followed HEHavey's advise on light loads with 158gr (lead) in 357 cases using HP-38/W231 for a rifle....Excellent results that saved me a lot of time and loading components

 

[Alaskamike]

It will work with .357 brass, but you might have better success with a faster powder. I use Clays for subsonic .357 loads.

One thing you should be very careful with as you develop subsonic carbine loads (regardless of powder) is the use of plated bullets. While most of the time it is recommended to use cast bullet load data, what's most relevant to you is that plated bullets have more resistance traveling down the barrel than cast bullets. Combine that with the longer barrel of a carbine, and you can quickly get to a situation where you lodge a bullet in the barrel.

This is a particular risk with lighter plated or jacketed bullets, so your use of 158 grain bullets will help.

 

[N555]

Just make sure they stabilize before you load up a bunch.

 

[DMW1116]

Hodgden's website lists rifle data for 357 Magnum using a couple of different powders in 18.5" barrels that show subsonic velocities. HP-38, HS6, and a couple others. I'm assuming the popular information is true and HP-38 is the same powder as W231.

 

[Thomas Mayberry]

I load 3.5 grains of W231/HP38 in magnum brass under a 158 grain LSWC (RCBS 150 SWC). Out of my Marlin 1894CS 18.5" barrel it chronographs at +/- 900 FPS.

 

[Macchina]

It will work with .357 brass, but you might have better success with a faster powder. I use Clays for subsonic .357 loads.

One thing you should be very careful with as you develop subsonic carbine loads (regardless of powder) is the use of plated bullets. While most of the time it is recommended to use cast bullet load data, what's most relevant to you is that plated bullets have more resistance traveling down the barrel than cast bullets. Combine that with the longer barrel of a carbine, and you can quickly get to a situation where you lodge a bullet in the barrel.

This is a particular risk with lighter plated or jacketed bullets, so your use of 158 grain bullets will help.

I happen to have a taper crimp die (Lee) in my set. I think I’ll try a couple and pull them apart to see.

These bullets have tended to stay together really well in the past when I shot them at water jugs. Maybe I’ll shot a few into water and see if the playing flakes at all.

 

[AJC1]

You do less downloading and stay way closer to published loads with heavier bullets. A 147 is an easy sub in 9mm. A 180 in 357 is not a tall order either with any of the faster powders. The added bonus is the heavier bullets keep up pressure for semiautomatic actions.