M&P Smith and Wesson Lower Parts Kit is a Bad AR 15 Product

[Mixed Nuts]

M&P Smith and Wesson Lower Parts Kit is a Bad AR 15 Product

As some here know I am building an AR15. It is my second build and it has, so far, held a few surprises.

My first build was on a Stag lower. It was affordable, but in all ways a fine lower and I got the lower parts kit from Stag, too. Went together nice and the pieces were all well fitting. Because Stag was a sort of mid-level outfit, I assumed their stuff was kinda standard.

I bought a lower from under glass at a gun shop recently. It was an impulse buy, a Spike’s lower and some of the markings on the lower are juvenile but that’s no biggie. And so far, the lower looks like a good part. I’m not complaining about the new lower – just giving background to my complaint.

I was at Sportsman’s Warehouse recently – best store for ammo here – and I saw a lower parts kit on a rack. It was labeled M&P by Smith and Wesson and it was priced at 38 bucks. I saw this kit and thought it was a good price on what would be high quality lower parts.

But they were bad parts.

Particularly the bolt catch and the safety selector switch. The bold catch was too thin. I could see the roll pin between the lower and the catch and the catch was very loose. Not wanting to blame Smith and Wesson I unpacked the Stag and compared the bolt catches. The difference was dramatic. The Stag piece fit and pivoted only on its axis. The Smith and Wesson M&P catch was undersized and wiggled all over.

The safety selector from M&P was also oddly loose and very rough to operate. The Stag part was just better, smother and more positive snapping into position.

So. I guess I’m saying all lower parts kits are not created equal and Smith and Wesson has decided to sell some cheap crap.

As of today, I have ordered the two parts from Colt by way of Brownells. I’ve overpaid but I just don’t want t be bummed again. If the new pieces are a bust I’ll just buy the whole kit from Stag which I should have done in the first place.

 

[bannockburn]

Mixed Nuts

I know what you mean by buying poorly made parts to go into your build. Years ago I had an Essex 1911 frame that I wanted to put together. I bought one of those parts kits from a surplus dealer and ended up scrapping most of the parts they were so bad. Ended up buying all Colt parts (expensive yes but worth it), and everything went together and worked just like it was supposed to do. When I built my AR I used an Olympic Arms parts kit and had no problems with anything in it.

 

[Everready73]

They are not all created equal. The S&W uses MIM parts on parts like the bolt catch. I have been really liking Sionics and Sons of liberty gun works lower parts kits. They have them without trigger grip for under $40 and are really high quality

 

[AlexanderA]

This is why I don't use "parts kits." I hand-pick the individual parts from the bins at my favorite dealers at gun shows. (It helps to be on a friendly basis with them.)

 

[GunnyUSMC]

You do know that S&W doesn't make any of their AR barts, just like most of the other companies that build ARs.
If you have any more trouble with your lower parts, let me know. I have many extra parts in my box. Will send for free.

 

[MistWolf]

Mixed Nuts, you should have contacted S&W and given them a chance to address the problem before posting about it.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Perhaps you didn't know that S&W doesn't sell the parts that they put into their ARs...in any case they don't make the parts in-house.

The parts kits that you are referring to are likely made by Battenfeld Technologies...who had a recall of some of their kits a while back due to poor quality hammers. You might check with them about your concerns

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Bannockburn. Yeah. I hear this. If I ever build an AR again I’m going to buy a matched set of un-built receivers and take Everready73’s advice on a lower parts kit.

Everready73. Will make a note of this advice, thanks.

AlexanderA. I should tune in to when the shows come through. I always miss them.

GunnyUSMC. Thanks for the offer. It is a very cool thing to do. As of right now I’m on my way to being a parts collector, too. As of yesterday, I’ve ordered a few more lower parts. I will soon have more than I need.

MistWolf. I suppose I could have done that but what would S&W have said? The part works. It’s just crummy. I’m not sure Smith has done anything wrong except sell their good name for quick cash.

9mmepiphany. I can believe this. Hopefully the Colt name means something in the AR parts market.

 

[MistWolf]

MistWolf. I suppose I could have done that but what would S&W have said?

It would have given S&W a chance to deal with the problem before having their name raked through the mud and it's the ethical thing to do.

 

[Geno]

Mixed Nuts:

Take digital pics of the complaints. Draft an email to S&W. Attach the pics. Request a replacement of the parts. If the reaction is favorable, post it in the proper feedback section here at THR. If it is unfavorable, post it here in the proper feedback section.

Word of mouth is powerful, but only to the extent that the company is given the opportunity to make it right first. A parting thought, 100% of all companies inadvertently release parts that are substandard. Let them make it right.

JMHO,

Geno

Here:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?forums/rate-private-and-retail-transactions.24/

 

[9mmepiphany]

Hopefully the Colt name means something in the AR parts market.

I don't think they manufacture their own small parts either

 

[mshootnit]

I had a m&p that had some different fitment issues and then an MP 10 that had the dustcover fall off because they built it with the wrong pin I think.
I have used Armalite, Del-ton, and maybe a couple others with good luck so far.
My best ever stripped lower says Surplus Ammo Arms on it circa 2010. I don't know who made it but noticeably better than a run of the mill lower.

 

[mshootnit]

It would have given S&W a chance to deal with the problem before having their name raked through the mud and it's the ethical thing to do.

He paid his money, he can do whatever he wants. As a business if you don't like it, then don't put your name on crap parts.

 

[DLrocket89]

They are not all created equal. The S&W uses MIM parts on parts like the bolt catch.

As a metallurgist who works in a production environment and deals with stuff like this all the time, the whole "MIM parts suck" kinda bugs the crap out of me. MIM is just like any other manufacturing process...it can be done fine and and it can be done crap. People generally like forged components, but forgings can be screwed up so many different ways it makes my head spin.

It's true MIM is used in places to cut costs...but that doesn't mean "low quality", it just means "the manufacturer can lower costs because they operate more efficiently and can pass the savings on to the customer".

Buy from a brand you trust and a brand that you know supports their products. So, you're likely to get good parts, and if something goes wrong (and it does), you're with a brand you know will take care of you.

/rant

 

[clearcut]

I got a Anderson lower parts kit it feels like it's got gravel in it , it may just be luck of the draw.

C

 

[MistWolf]

He paid his money, he can do whatever he wants. As a business if you don't like it, then don't put your name on crap parts.

...and if it had been parts you put your name on in good faith and instead of being given a chance to make it right, someone impunes your reputation behind your back?

 

[Mosin Bubba]

Off topic, but I'm really surprised that Sportsman's Warehouse offers LPKs that cheap. If I ever get around to building another lower, I'm just going to skip the Internet and give them a visit.

 

[Mixed Nuts]

Geno, MistWolf... I understand the point you're making but my point is that the part is low quality. I'll be back in the store this week and I bet dollars to doughnuts that if I bring the bolt catch and compare it to the stack of blister packs on the rack, they'll all have the same crummy catch. This is not something Smith and Wesson can make right because they are doing it to everyone who is buying the M&P Smith and Wesson AR15 Customizable parts kits. This is a business choice they made to increase their profits - it is not a one-off bad piece in an otherwise Smith and Wesson tier product.

Smith and Wesson didn't make a mistake. They made money at a margin of quality they thought their name and the market would bear. That was their choice. As far as the claim that I've behaved disreputably, MistWolf, that is, at best a throwaway remark and does you no credit.

 

[someguy2800]

If you sell junk someone else built for you its your fault.

I think we would all be surprised though how many companies are selling AR parts or complete guns that don't even own a cnc machine. With a manufactures license you could have a business building AR's with an 8 foot card table a credit card, and a space to box them up. I often wonder all the larger name gun makers that have gotten into selling AR15's, S&W, Savage, Mossberg, Remington, ect... how many people are in the AR part of the business? How much are they actually making in house or is it 10 people with work benches putting stuff together? I'm curious with the right tools and stuff to make it easy how many AR15's could I put together in an 8 hour day from parts? I bet its about 40. I've seen what dealer costs are for some parts and its pretty sad how little money is in an AR15.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

As someone who likes S&W products I was surprised to see this post.

It was the first that I heard of them selling parts kits. And hearing there may be a quality problem is a concern.

I agree with others that OP should contact them and give them a chance to do the right thing. Until that’s done we don’t know if they got bad parts from a supplier because of someone’s error, or if they’re reselling substandard parts to rip people off (I doubt this as it would do too much harm to their brands)

Likewise Sportsman’s Warehouse should be informed. If the parts on the shelf are clearly substandard, letting them know could save a bunch of people a lot of hassles.

Personally I’d like to hear what happens with this and it would be nice to know.

 

[imashooter]

Perhaps you didn't know that S&W doesn't sell the parts that they put into their ARs...in any case they don't make the parts in-house.

The parts kits that you are referring to are likely made by Battenfeld Technologies...who had a recall of some of their kits a while back due to poor quality hammers. You might check with them about your concerns

http://www.recoilweb.com/recall-bti-mp-ar15-rifle-lower-parts-kit-129447.html

 

[Hokie_PhD]

http://www.recoilweb.com/recall-bti-mp-ar15-rifle-lower-parts-kit-129447.html

Thanks

For those that didn't read the article the most important part is:

If you purchased a product advertised as an M&P AR-15 Rifle Lower Parts Kit Complete (Item No. 110114) during the referenced timeframe, please contact BTI at (877) 416-5167 or [email protected] to arrange for the return of your kit and the issuance of a replacement hammer.

While you are awaiting the replacement hammer, any rifle assembled with an M&P AR-15 Rifle Lower Parts Kit Complete should NOT be used.

 

[Everready73]

As a metallurgist who works in a production environment and deals with stuff like this all the time, the whole "MIM parts suck" kinda bugs the crap out of me. MIM is just like any other manufacturing process...it can be done fine and and it can be done crap. People generally like forged components, but forgings can be screwed up so many different ways it makes my head spin.

It's true MIM is used in places to cut costs...but that doesn't mean "low quality", it just means "the manufacturer can lower costs because they operate more efficiently and can pass the savings on to the customer".

Buy from a brand you trust and a brand that you know supports their products. So, you're likely to get good parts, and if something goes wrong (and it does), you're with a brand you know will take care of you.

/rant

I totally get that MIM has its place for certain types of products including gun related ones. I just don't want MIM parts in my lower parts kits. I have read of to many issues with them breaking or people having issues. It should be telling that NONE of the reputable manufacturers like BCM, LMT, Colt, Sionics and others do not use MIM parts in their lower parts kits. I am sure MIM is fine for some parts and products and i would be fine with MIM for certain items

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I totally get that MIM has its place for certain types of products including gun related ones. I just don't want MIM parts in my lower parts kits. I have read of to many issues with them breaking or people having issues. It should be telling that NONE of the reputable manufacturers like BCM, LMT, Colt, Sionics and others do not use MIM parts in their lower parts kits. I am sure MIM is fine for some parts and products and i would be fine with MIM for certain items

You need to take a really good look at the parts on your AR. Just about every one uses MIM parts now days, even Colt. Just try and find a Bolt catch that is not MIM.
I know shooters that would pay more for the Seekins Precision enhanced bolt catch because they wanted one that was milled. They are MIM now.

 

[DLrocket89]

I guess my thoughts on people not wanting MIM are as follows: Do you know what can go wrong with MIM? Do you know how MIM acquired a bad reputation? Do you know how MIM parts are made and the metallurgy behind it? Do you know why manufacturers want to use MIM? Different way of looking at it, I heard on the internet somewhere that the new Corvette's suck because of *mumble mumble mumble*. Does that mean that if I had the money I wouldn't get one? Of course not, it was just some random noise from the internet. I'm sure when MIM was first getting going some bad parts were made, but that has happened with every other manufacturing technology in existence.

Personally, I don't give a rip about how anyone makes something, as long as I know they've got their act together and they'll support me if they screw up.