M1 Carbine use in WWII?

[Kenshin]

who in the army used the m1 carbine in WWII?

 

[SLCDave]

My grandfather used one in California to guard German POW's that were brought stateside.

 

[Devonai]

While intended as a more capable defense weapon than the 1911A1, the M1 Carbine ended up as a front line rifle in both the ETO and PTO for the entirety of WWII. Therefore, one could find it anywhere from infantry units to REMFs.

 

[Jack19]

My father-in-law (Army) carried one for awhile on Okinawa after his Garand was crushed by a falling boulder. According to him, he was at a command post, a Lt. Col. noticed he didn't have a rifle and gave him the carbine.

I'm taking him to lunch today for a belated Veteran's Day "thank you." Even at 82 he still likes a good reuben sammich and a Wild Turkey.

He aslo says "The Marines got too much credit."

 

[Trebor]

A better question would be, "Who didn't use the M-1 Carbine in WWII?" More carbines were produced then Garands. The carbine was originally designed for soldiers who needed a "light rifle" which wouldn't get in the way while they performed their primary duties. We're talking about truck drivers, cooks, machine gunners, etc. The carbine was issued way beyond that though. At various times and in various places it was the TO&E issue for Platoon Leaders and other officers. Combat riflemen were generally issued the Garand, but if one wanted a carbine, it wasn't hard to get one. (Now a Thompson, on the other hand, was harder to get ahold of if you weren't issued one).

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Yes, as people have already said, it was intended a replacement for the 1911 A1 (For those who served crew served weapons, radio operators, truck drivers, tank crews, etc.; it was felt they needed something with a little more practical range than a pistol could provide.), but it became so well liked by those who got their hands on one (It was extremely light compared to a Garand, and held a lot more ammo, which itself was much lighter) that they produced as many as there was a demand for. It has been reported that soldiers would intentionally "lose" their Garands or Thompsons so as to acquire a Carbine to replace it.

It was largely the effectiveness in battle of the M1 Carbine in city and close quarters ranges that inspired the Germans to develop something similar, and this is where we got what we refer to today as the Assault Rifle. That was actually Hitler's name for what his engineers developed in imitation of the little Carbine. So we can thank the little Carbine for the modern concept of Assault Rifles. Within the most common battle ranges (under 200 yards) it packed enough punch, and shot straight enough to be a perfectly adequate weapon, and that in a light package with lots of firepower and easy carry of lots of reloads. No wonder any soldier, just about, who got his hands on one kept it throughout their service in the war.

P.S. In the Korean Conflict we started hearing soldiers complain about landing multiple hits with the M1 Carbine on advancing Commies with little or no perceivable effect. This was almost certainly not due to the inadequacy of the cartridge, but rather to the fact that the enemy, in winter, wore thick layers of clothing. As a result, what was thought a solid hit, actually passed through the clothing without touching flesh, or only passed through flesh superficially, missing vital organs, bones, etc.

 

[fredcwdoc]

My dad carried one in the ETO but swapped it out for a Garand. From what I have read and the WW2 vets I have talked to that was common.

 

[Art Eatman]

The original concept was for issue to officers, truck drivers and tank crews. As said above, the use spread.

My father, in Europe from August of 1944 on through VE Day, carried both an M1 carbine--which I have--and a 1911. When he didn't sneak off to go fight (I really think the man regarded it as a more interesting form of deer hunting.) he was a motor pool officer. In one letter home, he commented how neat it was, now that he had a ring-mount Ma Deuce on top of his personal Deuce-and-a-half.

I once worked with a guy who'd been a Marine Corps medic in the Pacific. He commented that when they'd see a Jap patrol "way off" and guys would open up with carbines, the Japs wouldn't even break stride. When a Garand started talking they'd break and run.

Phil Sharpe, noted gun collector, handloader, historian, author and Army captain, commented very negatively upon the actual effectiveness of the carbine. Mostly, I guess, due to the need for multiple hits. Absent head or heart, one shot wasn't enough.

You decide...

Art

 

[Tropical Z]

My father, in Europe from August of 1944 on through VE Day, carried both an M1 carbine--which I have-

WOW,what a treasure!

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

WOW,what a treasure!

It wasn't all that uncommon for soldiers to take their issued weapons home with them back then, not to mention all kinds of souvenir guns off the dead and captured enemies they came across.

 

[MechAg94]

They get upset when people do that these days. Too bad.

 

[VG]

They get upset when people do that these days. Too bad.

"They" got upset then, as well. There was a process to bring back war trophies. Famously, Major Winters in a "Band of Brothers" outtake shows the pistol surrendered to him by a German officer, never fired to this day.

Because M1 Carbines, Garands, and M1911's were made available after the war, it is very common for a DCM rifle to go from, "I carried a rifle like this," to "This was the rifle Grandpa carried in WWII." The first rifle I ever fired was an M1 Carbine that a friends dad bought after the war, owned by his son today as "Grandpa's war rifle." My dad and all his friends were WWII vets.

There are a miniscule number of documented cases of "brings-backs." This is doubly surprising since the value of a "bring-back" rifles are sometimes given in the range of $10,000 to $25,000.

 

[DMK]

who in the army used the m1 carbine in WWII?

From reading historical research, recollections and stories, both fact and fiction, it seems to me that mostly anyone who was not an actual rifleman could end up issued a carbine. Some liked it because it was light and easy to shoot. Some preferred something with a higher rate of fire and aquired an M3 subgun (I've seen many officers and non-coms recollect carrying M3s). Some preferred the more powerful punch and aquired a Garand (if you watch Band of Brothers, most of the officers and non-comms carried Garands, but the weapons platoon squad leader carried a carbine with a folding stock, one company commander carried a Thompson and the intelligence officer only carried a 1911).

 

[5ptdeerhunter]

My Grandpa carried one. He was trained to work with the big howitzers. But there was a shortage of men for communications. So they took him. I don't know if he had the carbine when before or while he was on communications, but he carried his along the front lines.

That is all I know though. It is really hard to get him to talk about the war.

 

[foghornl]

My dad at some point was issued the "War Baby", but soon traded with a 2nd LT that had been issued an M1.

Seems the LT was one of the "90-Day Wonders". Dad's main "wonder" was how he got in to the Army. Dad said he couldn't have met the weight limit with all his pockets full of wet sand...and the M1 beat up the guy really bad every time he fired it.....So, a trade was arranged.

 

[Remander]

I saw an episode of Shootout on History Channel recently that focused on the Pacific. A marine (I think) was featured in one piece where he used a M1 Carbine to shoot several Japanese as they charged a hill the Americans had taken.

I have fired a Carbine that belongs to a relative and can see how that fellow was able to bang away and get it back on target quickly as the Japanese charged the hill. That little rifle was plenty accurate on the 100 yd gong we shot at, with little recoil. We were able to bang, bang, bang it and hit, hit, hit. It looked crude, but it worked like a champ.

I'd love to own one.

 

[Ivy Mike]

My grandfather carried one during his time in the occupation force in Japan.

He was issued an M1 Garand, but said it spent most of its time in the armory or locked in a foor locker.

He carried a carbine on duty as he said most of his time was spent watching people wear down the sidewalks. Easier to carry less weight.
He never actually fired the carbine in anger.

The Garand on various islands, yes...not the carbine though.

The Garand served him well too. He, being an MP was able to get various items shipped back home.

I own the following items he brought back.

A gently used 03A3 built by Remington in 1942.
A mum-intact 7.7mm Arisaka (this isn't safe to shoot)
A no-mum 6.5mm Arisaka (this one is OK to shoot)
An FN model 1910 that he picked up off a dead Japanese officer.
1 of 3 swords he brought back. 2 of the swords were quite valuable and he sold them many years ago. I do have the inexpensive machine made sword. It still had an edge on it even after years of sitting in a weapons locker in his SoCal garage.

 

[DMK]

I own the following items he brought back.

Wow that's an awesome collection! It's really cool that it got handed down to somebody who will care for it and enjoy it. I hate to think about how many war trophies get found rusting in attics and get sold off or worse!

You need to pick up a CMP Garand and a carbine to go with that collection.

An FN model 1910 that he picked up off a dead Japanese officer.

Sidenote trivia: I was just watching the Tales of the Gun episode about Japanese arms of WWII. They made such horrible pistols that it was fairly common practice for officers to purchase European pistols to carry instead of one of the issue guns.

 

[Crosshair]

Why isn't the mum-intact Arisaka safe to shoot?

 

[VG]

Here's a citation from "Shots Fired in Anger" pages 393-394 by LTC John George. LTC George ws the IL High Power champion, with the first [little acknowledged] Army troops on Quadalcanal. He then volunteered for the famous Merrill's Marauders, who conducted a 1,000 mile plus foot patrol to create a deep incursion into the Japanese rear in Burma. The beret flash of today's Ranger Battalions is from the 75th Infantry that comprised the Marauders.

Here is what he had t osay about the Carbine:

The M1 Carbine turned out to be an ace weapon of the war, as far as I was concerned. It was light and handy, and reasonably accurate.......

The development of the carbine had the effect of putting a good offensive-defensive weapon in the hands of the leader and gun crew member, thereby making him the near-equal of the M1 rifleman. The cartridge was powerful enough to penetrate several thicknesses of helmet, and to perforate the plates of Japanese bullet-proof vests, which would only be dented by .45 Auto slugs. It was flat shooting enough to have practical accuracy at more than 200 yards.....

The great advantage of the Carbine was that it got a gun that could shoot into the hands of the average Infantryman. The pistol, as far as general usage is concerned, is a purely defensive weapon, accurate only in the hands of an expert. The carbine performed moderately well in the hands of dubs. For many types of jungle fighting, such as sneak raids and infiltration, it was often superior even to the M1......

The greatest advantage of the carbine was its light weight, which is the greatest advantage any Infantry weapon can have.....

 

[JohnKSa]

Audie Murphy carried the carbine by choice at least some of the time according to his autobiography.

 

[JShirley]

Well,golly...I reckon a .30" hole is a .30" hole- unless able to fire expanding ammo. I'm not likely to trust just one from whatever platform I'm using, and I can carry more ammo w/ a carbine.

I can see the other side, too. If I faced lots of 300 meter+ shots, I'm sure I'd want an M1 or a 1917.

John

 

[RandyB]

He aslo says "The Marines got too much credit."

My grandfather served in the pacific with the DD. (Dixie Division) as a medic and stated the same thing.

It is interesting that I have a few pics of him posing with a Thompson and an M1 carbine, as well as a short barrelled revolver (Model 10?), and a 1911. He never talked about the war, but I did get the sense from him that he did carry some firearm during the conflict.

 

[mr.trooper]

My Grandfather Was issued an M1 Carbine as part of a Tank Destroyer Crew in Europe.


BTW: In an interview, i heard strait from a Korean war vets mouth that men didnt like the carbine "Cuz it couldnt penetrate their winter clothing at 400 yards". The source of the complaints is due to soldiers trying to shoot heavily padded enemys at 150+ yards. Distances the carbine was never EVER intended to shoot too.

The 30 carbine is NOT stoped by clothing at anything resembing combat distances.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm

 

[Kurush]

BTW: In an interview, i heard strait from a Korean war vets mouth that men didnt like the carbine "Cuz it couldnt penetrate their winter clothing at 400 yards". The source of the complaints is due to soldiers trying to shoot heavily padded enemys at 150+ yards. Distances the carbine was never EVER intended to shoot too.

400 yards? My ballistic calculator is giving me 12 feet of drop at 400 yards