M1A or AR10?

[Risky buisness]

"Well Uncle Sam dumped the M14 (aka M1A) like hot garbage back in the 1960’s."
Seriously? If that was as simple as it gets, not even close. Way to many factors to address here. May want to read up on a guy named Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense at the time to get a bit more insight." Brought them back out for the GWOT, and dumped them like hot garbage again" Really? By the time these proven rifles were needed again, specifically because the M4 and M16A3, lacked what was needed to accomplish their tasks, the M14s in stock were essentially worn out from years of secondary duty, and that coupled with the lack of armorers who could repair them from retirement, sure, the military looked for some similar platform that could be used, so their is the validation for the Ar10. Referring to the platform as 'hot garbage' is at best, in poor taste in my opinion. If you don't like them, don't own one.

 

[Charlie98]

"Well Uncle Sam dumped the M14 (aka M1A) like hot garbage back in the 1960’s."
Seriously? If that was as simple as it gets, not even close. Way to many factors to address here.

I read that comment and thought the same thing. Like the VietNam war, the decision to dump the M14 and adopt the M16 was more political than practical.

 

[The Earl o Sammich]

It's a little more complex that that. I have it, on good authority, that during the Cuban Missile Crisis they feared there was not the logistics in place to support the M14. They pulled it and reissued the M1 Garand. Infantry men spent days, yes days, flying around Cuba in C-130s with M1 Garands ready to drop in.

Then McNamara came, with all his past battle experience....

 

[Llama Bob]

I read that comment and thought the same thing. Like the VietNam war, the decision to dump the M14 and adopt the M16 was more political than practical.

The M14 was not a bad gun - if we'd had a .30-06 box fed version at the WW2 service rifle like John Garand wanted, it would have been far superior to the M1 Garand. That said, the nostalgia for the M14 is largely nostalgia for the full power cartridge. An AR10 with the same feature set as the M16A1 would be superior in essentially all respects, especially in the climate of Vietnam.

 

[Nature Boy]

This is one of those Ginger vs. Mary Ann aguments.

One is sexy but high maintenance. The other is more practical, easier to live with, bring home to meet momma type.

Again, the answer is both (if you can get away with it )

 

[kozak6]

An AR10 costs half as much as an M1A. That settles it for me.

 

[Charlie98]

An AR10 costs half as much as an M1A. That settles it for me.

If cost is your only qualifier. That's like saying a $400 Taurus 1911 is a better choice than a Colt/Kimber/Wilson 1911, etc. You could probably dig through most of your firearms and come up with a lower cost option than what you have.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I saw a rifle ad and thought, "How do the Springfield M1A and the AR10 compare to each other? They're both .308 semi-autos, right? What are the pros and cons, advantages and disadvantages? Price comparisons? I have never shot either of these and just got curious.

I would go with the AR-10 for multiple reasons.

The Springfield M1A is a mediocre clone of the M14 battle rifle. The M14 is difficult and expensive to mass produce, esp the receiver. Springfield cuts corners by investment casting their receivers, but this can lead to problems, as it has with my M1A. Research "Springfield Roller Impact Defect." I love the M1 platform and also have an M1 Garand made by Springfield, the military arsenal, not the cheesy commercial company based in gun-hating IL. Which brings me to the company politics, Springfield Armory sold out to get special exemptions on state gun control legislation. Their politics are sketch, as are their products in my opinion, so I would avoid the M1A. If you can save the money to at least get the Fulton, I think you will be better off.
Either way, the AR-10 will be cheaper initially, and while it doesn't quite have the degree of interchangeability of the AR-15, the AR-10 will have much more to offer for spare parts and accessories, and because of this, will be much easier to not only customize to your preference or to suit multiple roles, but will also be easier to fix and to keep running than the M14/M1A.

Honestly, you could probably find a service grade CMP M1 Garand and a decent AR-10 for less than the price of a decent M14 clone.

 

[lionking]

people have replied that a DPMS AR-10 is half the price of a M1A. I have gunbroker open right now and the average price of a DPMS AR-10 is $1200 and a M1A is $1400. For me though a AR rifle with no iron sights is just weird .

 

[DannyLandrum]

The AR10 is easier to accurize, more fundamentally accurate if free floated, more modular, more ergonomic, and far easier to get a good optic mount on. It's also cheaper and has numerous good manufacturers.

The M1A is available for those who have to have it for nostalgia or whatever. Although the more recent Springfield ones have soft commercial parts including I believe bolts and I'd buy a Fulton Armory instead personally.

This, +1. The AR10 is superior in nearly every way, for my money. Preferably in .260 rem. But the traditional M14 type, with a 22" bbl and wood stock, has a certain appeal to fans of the US military, as I am.

 

[lionking]

I have 3 M1A, they feel good to me, just like a Garand, and I feel confident when I shoot it. I have nothing against AR style rifles though

 

[Ru4real]

If you hadn't heard, the Browning MK3 Synthetic, 18" fluted barrel, detachable box 10 round magazine in 308 is supposed to be a reliable and accurate semi-auto rifle right out of the box. These are different than BAR's of old, supposedly. Less than 7 lbs and light recoiling. Another semi-auto option, similar price.

 

[Coal Dragger]

"Well Uncle Sam dumped the M14 (aka M1A) like hot garbage back in the 1960’s."
Seriously? If that was as simple as it gets, not even close. Way to many factors to address here. May want to read up on a guy named Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense at the time to get a bit more insight." Brought them back out for the GWOT, and dumped them like hot garbage again" Really? By the time these proven rifles were needed again, specifically because the M4 and M16A3, lacked what was needed to accomplish their tasks, the M14s in stock were essentially worn out from years of secondary duty, and that coupled with the lack of armorers who could repair them from retirement, sure, the military looked for some similar platform that could be used, so their is the validation for the Ar10. Referring to the platform as 'hot garbage' is at best, in poor taste in my opinion. If you don't like them, don't own one.

I owned 2 of them, and got rid of both. Really wanted to like them but at the end of the day just didn’t. The second was not reliable (trigger group kept coming loose from the receiver, SA never seemed able to fix it).

The M14 was a poor design when it was adopted, and it’s not any better now. The M4/M16 works just fine for the vast majority of modern infantry work. I never considered myself under armed when I was using it in Iraq. The M14’s pressed back into service proved to be difficult to maintain in the DMR role they were pressed into since the Sage EBR stock is not able to fully cure the M14’s issue with stock to receiver bedding. Seeing as how it wasn’t able to reliably fill the role, the Army and Marine Corps sought other solutions and here we are today.

 

[Reloadron]

M1A or AR10?

I saw a rifle ad and thought, "How do the Springfield M1A and the AR10 compare to each other? They're both .308 semi-autos, right? What are the pros and cons, advantages and disadvantages? Price comparisons? I have never shot either of these and just got curious.

Aside from both being gas operated semi automatic shoulder weapons and both having a chambering of 7.62 X 51 NATO (.308 Winchester) they don't, in my humble opinion. They are two distinctly different rifles in their traditional military form.They really don't even look the same.



The M1A type rifle has always been one of those love it or hate it rifles and despite complaints about the rifle those who mastered it consistently turned in high scores and have won plenty of matches shooting the rifle in competition. You can't take that away from the rifle. The M14 rifle was the rifle I trained with and fired for qualification in Marine Corps basic training and it served me well at the 500 meter line shooting prone. The rifle consistently delivered and the M1A I have today (a gift from my wife around 1990) has never disjointed me. The rifle in the above image is a NM version including the not visible NM2A sights and NM barrel.

The AR 10 is another animal and for those who have mastered it in match competition has consistently won matches and delivered high scores. The M1A is, in my opinion, more difficult to accurize but when properly done will deliver excellent accuracy out to 500 meters and beyond in the hands of a competent rifleman. Either rifle can be match conditioned by a competent riflesmith. Jerry Kuhnhausen in his book The U.S. .30 Caliber Gas Operated Service Rifles has a section on accurizing the M14 (M1A) and the older M1 Garand. The AR 10 rifles also have several books authored by writers like Glenn Zediker and John Feamster as to match conditioning the AR 10. The latter, as was mentioned, is the easier of the two rifles to prepare for match shooting. That said if the intent is to find the lowest cost economy rifle to punch holes in paper at 100 yards then just buy whatever trips your trigger with a low price.

My AR 10 is a rifle I bought about 25 years ago or more and did some modifications to. It started as an Armalite AR10(T) flat top. The aluminum floated handguard was added and a 24" match barrel. The sights are Centra. Twenty-Five years ago the AR 10 choices were very limited, nothing like what is available today.



I used the scope and standard sights when I initially got the rifle just to see what it would do.



Which is the better rifle? Personally I really do not believe there is a better. I would not hesitate to grab either of the pictured rifles and drag it to a match. I may as well just flip a coin. I suggest the original poster have an opportunity to at least hold both rifles and see which feels "right" and more comfortable to them. I would also consider which if any features you want which one rifle may offer over the other out of the box. Then set your rifle up the way you want it. Whatever you decide, go with it and most important enjoy many days with it on the range. Whatever trips your trigger.

Just My Take....
Ron

 

[Bobson]

Are AR10s standardized like the AR15s have been?

No, they aren’t. I know there’s the DPMS pattern, and also the ArmaLite pattern, which differ from one another. Those are the two major options. Of the two, DPMS is more popular in terms of what most AR10 manufacturers adhere to.

And if you want to be strict about it, there’s only one “AR10,” which is ArmaLite. I don’t know what we’re supposed to call all the rest of the “long action AR pattern rifles,” but some guys are anal about it.

For quite a white, I had the same question as the OP and was torn between the two. I’ve since settled on neither and have been very happy with my decision. Got a 308 bolt gun instead.

 

[Reloadron]

And if you want to be strict about it, there’s only one “AR10,” which is ArmaLite. I don’t know what we’re supposed to call all the rest of the “long action AR pattern rifles,” but some guys are anal about it.

Yeah and if we all worked from that the only AR 15 would be Colt. While each manufacturer has their own names the shooting community in general tends to use AR 15 and AR 10 pretty widely. I even see manufacturers referring to the AR naming conventions. Never did see any reason to get anal over naming conventions.

Ron

 

[SamT1]

I’d go with a dpms pattern AR10. A good chance it’s MOA out of the box. Easily upgradable. Optics ready for precision shooting. If your careful selecting one it can be lighter weight. A lot smoother recoil.

I’m not an open sights guy though. I only have one rifle that’s open sights and it’s a pistol caliber.

 

[ar-newbie]

I am in the process of putting together a Palmetto state armory ar 10 chambered in .308
Hopefully it turns out as well as their freedom rifles.
Pricing is excellent too, if you don't want to build your own, they have nice ones starting around $699 complete.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The AR10 is a modern design.

Yes and no. It's been modernized, and the design lent well to that, but the original AR-10 was developed in 1955, only 6 years after the M14.

I like the M1A, but for a rifle one is actually going to use, the lighter weight, better accuracy, modularity and lower entry price point of the .308 AR pattern makes the choice a no-brainer.

 

[TIMC]

I’ve owned a White feather edition M1A, I currently own a Socom 16 and I have owned several different style AR 10’s so I have a lot of experience with both rifles.
To me the M1A is bulky but capable of sub MOA groups. The AR 10 is easier to work with, can be cheaper to build or buy and can be made to feel very slim.
Price is like asking a builder how much a square foot he charges to build a house. You can spend a lot of money for not much space if you want to.
I have an AR 10 I built for about $600 not counting optics it’s the one on the left.

On the other end of the spectrum I have an AR 10 made by F&D defense, these run $3500 for the base model.

Price is what you want, accuracy can be made with either the M1A or the AR 10 and in it can be had at high or low price range. Me I prefer the AR 10

 

[bluejeans]

I gave this a lot of thought as many of the guys I shoot with run m1a and love them... only one other in the group runs an ar 308. Personally, I think the m1a is awesome and wish I had one but chose the ar 308 becaause...

Ease of acquisition. I am building 308s from hellfire armory 80% lowers and making many of my own parts I have a paperless gun for $450..( the market is flooded with ar parts.
Abundance of parts/ upgrades.
Ease of field cleaning and eventual repairs.. If the internals of you m1a fail it could put you down for a month to find a competent Smith to repair it... whereas with an ar you can the the parts the next day and fix it in the kitchen.
Price of extra mags.
Same controls as my light carbine (300 blk)
It's harder (imo) to judge the quality and condition of an m1a if purchasing used.
Weight. I can make an ar heavier.. it's hard to make an m1a lighter..
My willingness to abuse- (not sure what else to call it) if I had an m1a I would love it, baby it, not want it to get scratched etc. With an ar I know it's nothing special or irreplaceable so have no qualms about banging it around in the truck. That to is huge as it means an ar is something I will use whereas an m1a is something I would leave at home.

To the average guy, it doesn't matter, just buy what you want and can afford.

 

[Nanook]

No, they aren’t. I know there’s the DPMS pattern, and also the ArmaLite pattern, which differ from one another. Those are the two major options. Of the two, DPMS is more popular in terms of what most AR10 manufacturers adhere to.

And if you want to be strict about it, there’s only one “AR10,” which is ArmaLite. I don’t know what we’re supposed to call all the rest of the “long action AR pattern rifles,” but some guys are anal about it.

For quite a white, I had the same question as the OP and was torn between the two. I’ve since settled on neither and have been very happy with my decision. Got a 308 bolt gun instead.

There is also the Rock River Arms LAR-8, like my avatar. It uses proprietary mags, or FAL mags. No other handguards work with the rifle, and mostly no other parts but RRA.
It shoots really well, though.
You can't put another company's upper on a RRA lower either.

 

[flashhole]

Nothing to add, I just want to follow the thread. I'm trying to decide between the two platforms myself.

 

[EIB0879]

Nothing to add, I just want to follow the thread. I'm trying to decide between the two platforms myself.

Same here. My sister and BIL are retired. They started deer hunting again together after she retired. She loves her AR 10 clone and he uses an M1A. They both get the job done but I would opt for an AR 10 for myself if I had to decide today.

 

[Robbins290]

i have both, the M1a scout and the new windham 308 20".