Man with concealed-carry permit kills robbery suspect in Cleveland

[Avenger29]

"They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead."

Yeah, sure. The shootee is always an innocent child victem who would never harm a fly.

The kid was a criminal plain and simple. A young criminal, but a criminal nontheless. He got what he deserved.

An angry throng of about 30 youths gathered Monday

A bunch of like minded thugs

This is an easy one: justifiable homicide.

No, its stopping a criminal and defense. Not murder, justifiable or not.

There are only two bad things about this:
1) The perp will now join the statistics as a "child that died from a gun accident"
2) The homeowner will have to live with shooting the perp.

 

[beltslide]

One less criminal in the world! Buford had a gun, and was prepared to use it against a law obiding citizen, he got what he deserved!

 

[WeThePeople]

I absolutely love the reasoning:

If the CITIZEN didn't have a gun, the CRIMINAL might have lived.

That ignores the fact that the CITIZEN might have died had he been disarmed and that the CITIZEN most likely saved countless other CITIZENS by stopping this CRIMINAL.

I know, we've known it all along, but it doesn't decrease my frustration.

 

[Justin]

Let's keep this on the high road, folks.

Thanks.

 

[ZeSpectre]

3) somebody else is going to give the homeowner a hard time.

 

[kellyj00]

kid coulda grown up to go to Virginia Tech. Take criminals off the streets, permanently I say.... I don't care how it's done, but I don't want them anywhere near me or mine.

I've never met an upstanding citizen who committed an armed robbery.

 

[Headless]

Wonder what model S&W he had. Seems like a good shoot to me. Robbing people sitting on their own porch is some really dumb ****...whenever i'm 'sitting on the porch' i'm carrying and only a couple feet away from several more guns. I also fail to see how this is a CCW issue; dude was on his property so could have had the gun anyway, assuming ohio doesn't somehow restrict your ability to carry a gun on your own property Oh well, good thing many criminals aren't too smart or we'd find it much harder to shoot them.

 

[Nekron]

I could hardly believe my eyes when I read that story! The guy kills a criminal who was obviously willing to use deadly force to rob him and the TRUE VICTIM is treated like a criminal?

And then the friggin' paper is interviewing friends/family about what scum the CCW holder is and about the memorial set up in the street for and ARMED ROBBER???

To add insult to injury, the police took his pistol! I hope that wasn't the only protection he had because from the sound of things, he's going to have to worry about reprisal attacks from that little scumbag's kin.

 

[tinygnat219]

Does anyone know if the CCW holder is being sued at all?

 

[Hypnogator]

An angry throng of about 30 youths gathered Monday

Sounds like time for the homeowner to buy an AR or AK with several 30-rd magazines!

 

[Durruti]

Hard to tell until you're in such a situation, but if that had been my cousin, I might actually say the same sort of thing. It's an incredibly emotional situation and it might take a day or two to think straight.

Sad story, but given the circumstances, I'm pleased with the outcome.


Note to Ohioan: I-O!!

 

[Crunker1337]

If someone points a gun at you, what else are you supposed to do?

 

[toivo]

Usually there's some sort of excuse about "Well, it was armed robbery, but he wasn't really going to kill anybody..." This means that the victim is supposed to gamble his life on the good intentions of the person who is robbing him at gunpoint. Not a bet I or any sane person would want to make.

 

[plexreticle]

That guy got the surprise of his short life.

 

[Correia]

No, its stopping a criminal and defense. Not murder, justifiable or not.

Well, the actual legal term is Justifiable Homicide. Because he did kill him, which is homicide by definition, only it was justified by the law. Homicide doesn't equal murder.

 

[yhtomit]

This is an easy one: justifiable homicide.

No, its stopping a criminal and defense. Not murder, justifiable or not.

Right -- that's what he said

Homicide is homicide -- sometimes justifiable. Not every homicide is a murder -- negligent homicide, justified homicide, etc.

This is a sad story, but if events took place as advertised (and considering the source, no reason to think otherwise!) it does sound like the shooting was justified. Sad for the robber's family (who knows, he might have been a nice kid etc, or if not, might one day have been a nice adult), and sad for the shooter, who probably will wonder at least occcasionally whether he did the absolute best thing. But justified nonetheless.

I like the way toivo put it above -- that no sane person would "gamble his life on the good intentions of the person who is robbing him at gunpoint" -- even if it somehow later comes out that the robber "would never had done it, really," or "didn't think it would go that far," or even (since the quoted account didn't say so) that the gun wasn't loaded. Yes, you can see the tip of the bullet in a typical revolver, but if someone waves a .38 at me, I bet I'll believe it's loaded until I'm well satisfied through personal inspection that it's not. (That's the downside to criminals of the four rules -- their guns are always loaded, too.)

timothy

 

[Avenger29]

I've just always heard "justifiable homicide" used in the context of a killing that was needed, but not within the bounds of the law. So please excuse my aversion to using it to describe a self-defense case.

 

[average_shooter]

Maybe someone already asked this, but why would it matter if the shooter had a concealed carry license or not? He was at his home on his property when a couple thugs pulled a gun on him. License or not, I believe the defender would be completely justified here. Was Ohio's previous gun law so bad it barred self defense in one's own home?

 

[DRZinn]

When one of the youths pulled a gun, Wells drew his and shot one of the boys several times in the chest, police said.

Is it me, or does that make it sound (probably intentionally) like he shot the one without the gun?

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

JUSTICE!!! alot better ending that if the police would have arrested him. i wonder if the one who got away will think about robbing someone at gun point again.CCW is dangerous for criminals. if its not safe to walk up to someone and pull a gun on them and rob them what are we going to do? maybe not rob them, thats for sure. isnt situations like this why people get a ccw?

Was Ohio's previous gun law so bad it barred self defense in one's own home?

i think it would have still been justified. the problem with the old laws were that every city made up their own laws like cleveland, cincinnati, columbus, etc. there was no way to really know what was legal. ohio legal was different than city legal. now the state has uniform gun laws no matter where you are but we did have ccw before hb 347 went into effect.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

If you are going to do grown-up criminal activity be prepared to pay the penalty when you try to rob/kill the wrong person. Teenage criminals will kill you just as dead as an older bad guy will.

 

[BHPshooter]

But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here."

And there we have it. :banghead: You remember when you were young, when you would play cops and robbers, and the good guy would always win, and everyone would rejoice? These people don't seem to understand that sentiment.

To quote Inspector Callahan, "Nothing wrong with shooting as long as the right people get shot."

Wes

 

[Ohioan]

Note to Ohioan: I-O!!
__________________

It takes another Ohioan to pick up on that!!




They include the fact that he has a CCW for sensationalism. It's a big debate around here. Especially in the big cities.


Does anyone know of a sight that collect news stories like this? People legally using firearms to defend themselves?\



Cleveland still has a law on the books banning certain firearms. I'm not sure of the details. LE was told not to enforce the laws. Cleveland was going to appeal to the courts about the Preemption law. Maybe the LE was checking with higher ups to see if this magnificent man is going to be the "example"

 

[sw686plus]

What stinks is if the police ruled it justified, they should have given the guy his gun back, pronto. I'll bet he has to go through hoops to get it back. I hope he has a 2nd one in case someone else tries for retribution.

 

[Superpsy]

anyone else notice the psychological tactics used by "The Plain Dealer?"

A boy dies, and a gun debate is reignited
Holdup victim had concealed-carry permit

Note what was in bigger font. At first glance my initial thought was, "oh no, another kid found his parent's gun..." *sigh* and there's no media bias.