Mauser vs Enfield...Which Military Surplus Rifle

[mrh477]

Hey folks,
Been lurking on this site for a while trying to absorb as much information as I can but I haven't found a concise post that sums up the information I'm looking for so here I am. I'm looking for a nice, cheap military surplus rifle that will be part shooter (and maybe some hunting for deer or hogs) and part historical artifact. Here's the criteria I've come up with:

-Relatively cheap. $500 or so would be the upper limit.
-Safe and enjoyable to shoot. Not looking for a paperweight.
-Good history behind the model. If its been used in an important historical event, cool. I like things with good stories behind them. Something that can be hung up on the wall in addition to being used occasionally.
-Cheap and easy-to-find ammunition. I don't reload (though I'd like to start someday) and even cheap ammo is expensive these days.

From reading I've narrowed it down to either a Lee Enfield or a Mauser. Both are easy enough to find, have a long and rich history behind them, and come in calibers that I can find. I'd love something like a 1903 Springfield or American Enfield but they're just a bit out of my price range.

Ideas so far:

Enfields--it's really just between the No. 1 MK III and the No. 4. Both seem easy enough to find, .303 British sounds like a good caliber that I can get easily and hunt with if I want to. The only thing that makes me lean towards the No. 1 is the historical aspect of it. I really enjoy WWI history and that would mean the No. 1 is the better choice.

Mausers--here's where it gets complicated because there's so damn many models. I'm not too sure about the 8mm round--doesn't sound like it would be very fun to shoot all day but please correct me if I'm wrong. The 7x57mm sounds like it would be very enjoyable to shoot and a great hunting round. Then there's the 6.5mm Swedish which also sounds like it would be a nice shooter. My concern with the latter two is finding cheap factory loads for them. Maybe I'm wrong since I haven't been paying attention until recently but they don't seem to be nearly as common as .303 or 8mm Mauser.
If I go looking for a Mauser the models that jump out at me are:
-Spanish M1916. Good history, great size (not too long and unwieldy like some of the earlier Mausers), easy to find. Plus there are a lot of them in 7.62 NATO which I suppose I should also consider. I'm more drawn to the 7x57mm since that's what was being used in the Spanish Civil War (another subject I enjoy reading about) but if the milder 7.62 NATO that those rifles shoot is easier to find and cheaper then that's an option. I know the 98 action is supposed to be superior but in a round like 7x57mm or 7.62 NATO (milder loads like CETME or the boxes marked "for M1A") does it really matter?

-Any of the Gewehr 98's in 7x57mm. M1904 Brazilian, 1904/1912 Chilean, 1912 Colombian, and 1910 Serbian. I don't know if any of those were ever used in any wars but I imagine the Brazilian and Chilean models were not, thus making them a little less desirable to me.

-the Swedish 1896. Doubtful they were used in any wars but they have a storied history among hunters and a few Scandinavian explorers. 6.5mm sounds like a nice round but, like the 7x57mm, I worry about its availability. I also hear that the Swedish Mausers tend to be some of the most well-made.

-CZ VZ24 in 7mm Mauser. I really like CZ firearms in general and they all seem to be well-made. Some of these were used in the Spanish Civil War by Catalonian Republican troops. Not sure how hard it would be to find one of these, though, or how expensive it would be.

Any thoughts or recommendations from you folks that have played around with these old military rifles?

Thanks!

 

[eastbank]

the 93,s and 95,s along with the gewehr 98,s were used all over south america in small border wars, the swedish 96 mausers served in the winter war and the continution war that the finns waged with the russians, i own swedish 96 rifles with finnish army acception marks. were they a deciding factor, no. but the 96 swedish rifles were used in that war. the vz-24,s were used by the german army and modified for their use. eastbank.

 

[stoky]

Mauser for hunting, Enfield for fighting, and Springfield for target shooting, the old saying says.
I hunt with 7x57 (.275 Rigby, as I like to call it ) It's a cartridge that punches above it's weight class IMO. As for off the shelf ammo availability, during the most recent crunch it was on my LGS shelf (typically labeled 7mm Mauser), when there was no .308 to be had for love nor money.
The 6.5x55 is probably a better long range cartridge and more stylin' with the current 6.5 craze. Swedish rifles are generally a cut or two above those from countries where you'd be leery of drinking the water.
Welcome to the forum BTW, and best of luck in your quest.

 

[Sunray]

Between the No. 1 MK III and the No. 4, go with a No. 4. No such thing as cheap milsurps other than Mosin Nagants any more. A No. 4, in decent condition, will run you around $500ish. More for some.
And you'll unlikely be finding .303 British in small places(think what's available in Wal-Mart), Stateside.
You must check the headspace on any Lee-Enfield(thousands have been assembled out of parts bins with zero QC), but fixing it if it's bad is easier and less expensive with a No. 4. No. 4 bolt heads are numbered for size. No. 1 bolt heads are not and it takes a handful at about $20 or more each to check headspace with proper gauges to fix bad headspace.
You need to slug the barrel too. Lee-Enfield barrels can measure from .311" to .315" and still be considered ok. Ammo and jacketed bullets for reloading are only available as .311" or .312". Won't shoot well out of oversized barrels.
If you're thinking Mauser, look for a post-war, FN made Israeli K98 in .308/7.62NATO. No headspaces issues. Ammo is everywhere.
All the others are pretty much the same thing. Sometimes in a different chambering. You won't find many 7mm's or the ammo in small places.
A CZ VZ24 is just a Czech made(at way better quality than any other wartime made rifle) K98. The Swedes made very high quality stuff too. Still the ammo might be hard to get in small places.

 

[entropy]

Turkish Mausers can still be found at decent prices, and some of them, like mine, have fantastic Turkish Walnut stocks.



I find 8mm no worse to shoot than 7.62x54R, which I shoot a lot of....which brings me to my next suggestion;

M91/30 Mosin Nagant.

 

[onelastshot]

I have three German Mausers, all in 7x57. The 7x57 is a wonderful cartridge for midsized game and ammunition can be found almost everywhere. If I had to pick only one center fire rifle it would definitely be the 7x57.

 

[Jenrick]

An Indian Enfield that has been converted to .308 is probably going to be your best bet. It will require a careful inspection on your part as they are usually hard service rifles, that may not be in safe condition depending on where you are purchasing it from (gun show or armslist versus a reputable gun store). However if you get a good one, they make dandy rifles for a reasonable price shooting a common caliber.

-Jenrick

 

[Elkins45]

The 98 Mauser is the most copied bolt action rifle in history. Most agree that Mauser got everything right (except predicting that people would want to mount scopes) when he designed it.

The Enfield is an English battle rifle. Other than magazine capacity and (depending on the model) superior aperture sights it doesn't transition as well into a civilian gun.

I would buy a Mauser and wouldn't be too picky about the model. I have two Turkish 8mm's I bought at gunshows back during the waiting period years when you couldn't buy handguns. I paid $50 each and have been overjoyed with how well they shoot. I mounted a peep on one but the other one is stock. Even though I don't love V sights I can still shoot it very well. The one with the peep is my designated cast bullet rifle and I never dreamed a $50 milsurp bore could shoot lead so well.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I have several of each of the guns you have named. If you want a round just for shooting and the historical value I would go with either of the Enfield's, if you want long distance accuracy as well as a good mid sized game hunting round I would go with the 6.5 Swedish Mauser. I have one made by Husqvarna, the recoil is mild and the rifle is a tack driver. There are several companies which make cartridges for it that are not too expensive including PRVI.

 

[Coyote3855]

Another vote for the Husqvarna 6.5x55 Mauser.

 

[sayak]

Reloading for Mausers and Springfields is straightforward. Enfields you can reload for on a limited basis, but the chamber is purposely sloppier, as a battle rifle, and you will be dealing with more stretching. And if you get more than one Enfield it is not good to mix reloaded cartridges between them IMO.

It used to be a cheap proposition to feed Enfields new ammo, and they made good hunting rifles, but the ammo is getting a little harder to find. Still a good hunting rifle for a variety of game, but expensive for play at the range.

 

[joem1945]

I have and shoot 8mm,7mm and .303. I also reload these. If you want to shoot quite a bit go fo 8mm, lots of surplus. .303 surplus has dried up and i haven't seen any 7mm surplus in a while. 8mm mauser handles well and is a good hunting round with a good selection of bullets.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Mauser 98 in 7.92 aka 8mm Mauser

You can find post war Czech (Brno) made Mausers for a fraction of the price of a German marked one.

Prvi makes great ammo for .303 and 8mm. neither is very common in a local sporting goods store anymore.

Czech Mausers have a rep for good quality.

I prefer my Brno 98k to my Remington 1903a3 when it comes to fast bolt action shooting.

 

[Speedo66]

Hey folks,
Been lurking on this site for a while trying to absorb as much information as I can but I haven't found a concise post that sums up the information I'm looking for so here I am. I'm looking for a nice, cheap military surplus rifle that will be part shooter (and maybe some hunting for deer or hogs) and part historical artifact. Here's the criteria I've come up with:

-Relatively cheap. $500 or so would be the upper limit.
-Safe and enjoyable to shoot. Not looking for a paperweight.
-Good history behind the model. If its been used in an important historical event, cool. I like things with good stories behind them. Something that can be hung up on the wall in addition to being used occasionally.
-Cheap and easy-to-find ammunition. I don't reload (though I'd like to start someday) and even cheap ammo is expensive these days.

From reading I've narrowed it down to either a Lee Enfield or a Mauser. Both are easy enough to find, have a long and rich history behind them, and come in calibers that I can find. I'd love something like a 1903 Springfield or American Enfield but they're just a bit out of my price range.

Ideas so far:

Enfields--it's really just between the No. 1 MK III and the No. 4. Both seem easy enough to find, .303 British sounds like a good caliber that I can get easily and hunt with if I want to. The only thing that makes me lean towards the No. 1 is the historical aspect of it. I really enjoy WWI history and that would mean the No. 1 is the better choice.

Mausers--here's where it gets complicated because there's so damn many models. I'm not too sure about the 8mm round--doesn't sound like it would be very fun to shoot all day but please correct me if I'm wrong. The 7x57mm sounds like it would be very enjoyable to shoot and a great hunting round. Then there's the 6.5mm Swedish which also sounds like it would be a nice shooter. My concern with the latter two is finding cheap factory loads for them. Maybe I'm wrong since I haven't been paying attention until recently but they don't seem to be nearly as common as .303 or 8mm Mauser.
If I go looking for a Mauser the models that jump out at me are:
-Spanish M1916. Good history, great size (not too long and unwieldy like some of the earlier Mausers), easy to find. Plus there are a lot of them in 7.62 NATO which I suppose I should also consider. I'm more drawn to the 7x57mm since that's what was being used in the Spanish Civil War (another subject I enjoy reading about) but if the milder 7.62 NATO that those rifles shoot is easier to find and cheaper then that's an option. I know the 98 action is supposed to be superior but in a round like 7x57mm or 7.62 NATO (milder loads like CETME or the boxes marked "for M1A") does it really matter?

-Any of the Gewehr 98's in 7x57mm. M1904 Brazilian, 1904/1912 Chilean, 1912 Colombian, and 1910 Serbian. I don't know if any of those were ever used in any wars but I imagine the Brazilian and Chilean models were not, thus making them a little less desirable to me.

-the Swedish 1896. Doubtful they were used in any wars but they have a storied history among hunters and a few Scandinavian explorers. 6.5mm sounds like a nice round but, like the 7x57mm, I worry about its availability. I also hear that the Swedish Mausers tend to be some of the most well-made.

-CZ VZ24 in 7mm Mauser. I really like CZ firearms in general and they all seem to be well-made. Some of these were used in the Spanish Civil War by Catalonian Republican troops. Not sure how hard it would be to find one of these, though, or how expensive it would be.

Any thoughts or recommendations from you folks that have played around with these old military rifles?

Thanks!

The Swedish Mausers in addition to being some of the best made, were also some of the best taken care of by their original owners. Mild recoil, inherently accurate, and a great game cartridge. What's not to like?

 

[Normandy]

Your chances of finding an all-matching Enfield are way better than finding an all-matching German Mauser (the history side of things). I highly recommend the Enfield, due to the caliber (easier recoil), the capacity (10 rounds vs. 5), and the sights. Enfields can be found with flip sights, but most likely with the micrometer rear sight, which I like a lot.

NOTE:
IF you get an Enfield, and decide to disassemble it, be sure to remove the forestock before removing the butt stock. In other words, BUTT STOCK LAST. The bolt that holds the buttstock on has a square tip, and it rests between the wooden blocks in the rear of the forestock. If you take it out before removing the forestock, you can break the forestock.

 

[IBEWBULL]

Spanish M1916. Good history, great size (not too long and unwieldy like some of the earlier Mausers), easy to find. Plus there are a lot of them in 7.62 NATO which I suppose I should also consider. I'm more drawn to the 7x57mm since that's what was being used in the Spanish Civil War (another subject I enjoy reading about) but if the milder 7.62 NATO that those rifles shoot is easier to find and cheaper then that's an option. I know the 98 action is supposed to be superior but in a round like 7x57mm or 7.62 NATO (milder loads like CETME or the boxes marked "for M1A") does it really matter?

Don't forget CETME is lower pressure and you will HAVE to reload to specs or risk blowing up the gun.

I would go the 7.62x54 Moisen at $100 you can not loose.Ammo is cheap and plentiful stock up. The carbine or full size. We have several in the safe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmVJYB3uDkc

 

[lobo9er]

A mosin Nagant is a great deer gun when you can find soft point ammo. Take the rear sight off mount a scout scope with a dovetail mount and you have a great poor weather deer gun. Or irons the scout scope is just the route I went.

 

[tark]

The Gander Mountain near me has Swiss K-31s for around $250. A screaming bargain. Quality and accuracy are top notch and their previous owners took fantastic care of them. Never seen one with a bad bore.

Too bad ammo is relatively expensive. You can get it from J&G and others, if you state allows you to have ammo shipped directly to you.

 

[maxxhavoc]

I have more milsurp bolt rifles than I need, but always want more.

The best rifle I have that would fit your wants is not on your list. If you can get a Finnish M39, you will not regret it. It is a complete rework of the Mosin Nagant that the Finns did on captured Mosins. They improved the stock, put on a match-quality heavy barrel, and redesigned the trigger to be much better.

Cheap ammo: Surplus is still easily available @ $110-$130/400. You can also use PPU Match or hunting rounds which go for $15/20 here and are very good rounds.

History: The Finns stole the Russian's rifles, improved them, and used them against the Russians. The Winter War/Continuation war were very heroic struggles.

Looks: Some of the stocks are jaw-dropping.

They are more pleasurable to shoot than Mosins (heavier, much more accurate.) I like mine better than my 8mm Mausers and even my Swede.

If I was to pick one from your list, it would be the 6.5 Swede. It just seems to hit exactly where I want it to. PPU ammo is easy to find for this as well, and relatively affordable.

 

[j1]

98.

 

[ID-shooting]

03A3's can be had for your $500 if you search far enough. I picked up a nice SC '43 dated that some do-do head sanded and refinished the stock and hand guards (removing all cartouches) but didn't alter the shape. Metal is all original. But since I bought it shoot in NRA matches, the condition didn't bother me and I liked the $500 pricetag. I hit it with some wax polish and fine steel wool, knocked the gloss finish off the wood and it serves its purpose well.

 

[Ash]

You can also get an M1917 for the price - however these are both Mausers in design if not name.

I'd love to recommend a nice Finnish M39 Mosin, which would be cheapest to shoot and would have as good or better accuracy as any of the Mausers mentioned. However, it's a Mauser vs. Enfield thread.

The real trouble is that neither will be particularly cheap to shoot and 8mm Mauser ammo can be pretty anemic these days.

 

[mrh477]

I have more milsurp bolt rifles than I need, but always want more.

The best rifle I have that would fit your wants is not on your list. If you can get a Finnish M39, you will not regret it. It is a complete rework of the Mosin Nagant that the Finns did on captured Mosins. They improved the stock, put on a match-quality heavy barrel, and redesigned the trigger to be much better.

Cheap ammo: Surplus is still easily available @ $110-$130/400. You can also use PPU Match or hunting rounds which go for $15/20 here and are very good rounds.

History: The Finns stole the Russian's rifles, improved them, and used them against the Russians. The Winter War/Continuation war were very heroic struggles.

Looks: Some of the stocks are jaw-dropping.

They are more pleasurable to shoot than Mosins (heavier, much more accurate.) I like mine better than my 8mm Mausers and even my Swede.

If I was to pick one from your list, it would be the 6.5 Swede. It just seems to hit exactly where I want it to. PPU ammo is easy to find for this as well, and relatively affordable.

That's one I haven't read about yet. Thanks for the recommendation.

It sounds to me like there are plenty of rifles that could do what I want, so I guess I'll just keep my eyes open and get whatever I can find a good deal on or wait until I find something that just feels right.

 

[bannockburn]

Lots of choices but I would probably go with a 6.5mm. Swedish Mauser. High end quality construction, a great round to be chambered for, and typically found in fairly decent condition.

 

[Stephanie B]

I'm going to suggest a Mosin 91/30, as well. If you can get access to a number of them, retract the bolt and look in the left-hand-raceway. You'll look for a metal plug or two or three.



That signifies the rifle was once a sniper rifle. It'll probably have a better trigger than a generic 91/30. The one in the photo was an ex-PEM.

Mosins are still cheap, maybe not like they were eight or so years back, but still cheap. You can pick up a spam-can of milsurp ammo and a decent rifle for less than most other rifles cost.