military surplus rifle for a project?

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The Czech and Yugo Mausers are different from a K98 in some minor ways, but many of them are later production, newer condition, and are more highly finished than many K98s you'll see around. I've got one and would trust it to be reliable for -- many -- thousands of rounds.
 
Advice to Bubbas:

Re-Bubba something that another Bubba already ruined. No need to start with a nice rifle if you are going to Bubba it... find something that has already been "improved" and work on that to your hearts content. They are available at fine gunshows everyplace, for less than the price of anything that is original. Remember that Bubba-izing ALWAYS reduces value.



Willie

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Advice to Bubbas:

Re-Bubba something that another Bubba already ruined. No need to start with a nice rifle if you are going to Bubba it... find something that has already been "improved" and work on that to your hearts content. They are available at fine gunshows everyplace, for less than the price of anything that is original. Remember that Bubba-izing ALWAYS reduces value.



Willie

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Not in the eyes of Bubba.....they think they are improving it and it should now cost 10X the original. Some of those I don't want to even be in the same state when they are fired. The basement gun smith has been destroying rifles for 100's of years.
 
Just get two K31s... rebarreling is probably easier than finding another bolt can or extractor...

TCB
 
Who are you to tell me what I can or cannot do to my own personal firearms? It is nauseating reading posts condemning sporterizing milsurps. Value is subjective to who is valuating something. While a collector may look down in distain and want to vomit when they see a military rifle in any other shape than caked in storage grease, someone who appreciates a well made rifle will appreciate the value. Collector value is not the end all of what a firearm is worth. Take a well executed sporter and there are people that will pay a premium for it.
Historically, yes, these firearms in original condition are pieces of history. If my great great grand children wish to see a 19th or 20th century military arm they can visit a museum.
I built both of these rifles a few years ago and sold both for $700 a piece.
K31
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Mosin
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so.. what i think im going to do is try to find a K98.. maybe look for one with a stock in bad shape, or no stock at all as i have the tools and skills to carve a new military style stock to match an original.. leave it as mauser.. going with the mauser though would give me a lot of aftermarket.. seems the VZ 24 is almost identicle but with a different sight and the upper forearm extends behind the rear sight

do the K98s and VZ 24s use the same receivers too? if so, then anything that should fit on one should fit on the other too?

i thought about getting a K98K action.. no collector value at all, have a new 8mm barrel made for it, hand carve the new stock, start from the receiver and restore it back into a WWII military configuration.. MAYBE upgrade the trigger and iron sights

question though is how interchangable are the parts from one K98K to another?.. if i had the action and bought a K98K bolt assembly, would any fitting be required or were these all made to some specific specifications?
 
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Who are you to tell me what I can or cannot do to my own personal firearms? It is nauseating reading posts condemning sporterizing milsurps. Value is subjective to who is valuating something. While a collector may look down in distain and want to vomit when they see a military rifle in any other shape than caked in storage grease, someone who appreciates a well made rifle will appreciate the value. Collector value is not the end all of what a firearm is worth. Take a well executed sporter and there are people that will pay a premium for it.
Historically, yes, these firearms in original condition are pieces of history. If my great great grand children wish to see a 19th or 20th century military arm they can visit a museum.
I built both of these rifles a few years ago and sold both for $700 a piece.
K31
DSCF1673.jpg

Mosin
DSCF9593.jpg
PT Barnum said it best.
 
Barnum died a rich man.
Do you have a point to your post?
“Nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of the American public.”

You could also use the sucker born every minute, but some say that was not said by him....but it fits.
 
you know, id be inclined to keep my mosin nagant, it still has its military stock, though it wasnt in the greatest of shape with a lot of scratches, dings, scuffs.. i still managed to capture that red hue to it..

problem is though finding .311 bullets is a pain in the rear, the stripper clips dont even work particularly well, they fit into the cutout for them, but often the cartridges wont go in unless the angle is just right, and that bolt handle being forward is a bit annoying at best.. i have to remove my hand from the stock/trigger, move it forward, pull the handle up, back, forward, down, and then back to the trigger, of which the straight comb of it i find to be rather uncomfortable

the actual gun itself, sure, its reliable, easy to handle, i dont even mind the sights.. its just those small things, the comb of the stock, the location of the bolt handle, stripper clip reliabiltiy, the .311 bullets for reloading that make it so annoying for me to actually use.. and i think those are way too many issues to work out.. id need a new stock, to completely relocate the bolt handle which in itself is probably impossible, chamber it for something easier to find reloading components for... its just not worth it when i could just buy something like a K31, steyr M95, or a mauser and have all those issues taken care of

anyway, we've discussed the K31 and the mausers.. what about the 8mm steyr M1895? (as i said, im OK with staying with 8mm mauser).. what known issues are there with this rifle? how hard would it be to find replacement parts for should anything break?.

i know most people use military surplus rifles for the occasional recreation shooting, or just as a wall hanger, but myself, i actually prefer a decent bolt action over my AK-74, i prefer the harder hitting, more accurate, deeper penetrating nature of bolt action cartridges so whichever one i upgrade to is going to be my primary rifle for everything.. if i had one that didnt have those issues the mosin had, id use it over my AK if i needed anything for any kind of defense.. in fact, i find myself grabbing my 20" M38 mosin nagant OVER my shotgun if i hear a noise i may need to check out (tons of wildlife here including bears)

this is why barrel life, and thus the ability to rebarrel should one be shot out or damaged, finding replacement parts, the reliability and ease of stripper clips since ill be relying on them more than magazines, and of course, the cost of ammunition all become important factors, and i dont want to rely on surplus ammo that could dry up, maybe even be banned and leave me with something i cant shoot, which is why its important i find something that has brass and bullets readily available for reloading

ive decided against the K31 due to the bolt locking inside the barrel.. though i do intend to stay with a military configuration, i dont want to have to buy additional rifles for when one gets shot out because those rifles may not always be available.. does the bolt in the steyr-mannlicher 1895 rifle lock in the same way as the K31?
 
“Nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of the American public.”

You could also use the sucker born every minute, but some say that was not said by him....but it fits.
A refurb mosin caked in cosmoline and flaking shellac is tasteful?
 
Everybody is working WAY too hard on this thread. There are SO MANY all ready modified military rifles to be had out there it is pointless, completely pointless to a) mess up an historical old rifle, and b) pay a premium price for same for the privelege of messing it up. Thousands upon thousands of "bubbas" have come before you.

I kick myself for not buying it but I saw a very nice 1904a3 (the one with the peep sight) that had the stock cut down. Everything else was left alone if I recall. $175. The same guts and gun, un-tampered with, would probably go for no less than $500...higher if numbers matched.

So you can do exactly what you want, FOR CHEAPER by getting an amature chop job and making a nice rifle of it.
 
you want to start with something cheap, so a butchered carcano is a good candidate. controlled feed action, strong as a tank, and generally unwanted in the milsurp market. a few years ago i converted one to 7.62X39 using a junk SKS barrel that was $20 from Numrich, and a single stack AK magazine. it finished out as a nice little sporter. the barrel threads are larger in dia than just about everything else, so i used a counterbore of the barrel stub and a slide to seat arrangement. works great. i call it the "pumpkin shooter", cause every bad guy got a pumpkin.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?133427-converting-a-carcano-to-7-62X39
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"Who are you to tell me what I can or cannot do to my own personal firearms?"


You can do whatever you like with your personal property. Just don't be surprised when folks call you Bubba.

Personally, I am all in favor of "Bubba Improvements": It makes my unmolested examples worth more... :neener:



Seriously, as I said earlier, and as other have agreed (and that neat Carcano stands as an example of what can be done), the best thing to do if you want to play custom gunsmith is to pick up somebody elses Bubba-Job and make it your own. Don't start with an unmolested rifle. There are thousands of hack-job rifles just begging to meet a Better-Bubba.


Smile,


Willie

.
 
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I would never tell you you could not do a thing to a rifle. But the man please send me the guy who paid $700 for a sporterized Mosin. I have a bridge I guarantee he can own.

On the other hand, don't expect everyone to think you made the rifle better by chopping off the barrel, changing out the stock, bending the bolt handle and installing an ATI scope mount base. I sure don't.

Having watched milsurps for many, many, many years, I have yet to see a well-executed sporter bring all that much. Sometimes they can, of course, like a true craftsman's work of art in a Mauser, but most of the time they can bring more in original guise. Most Mauser sporters - the good ones - bring far less than your purported $700. Check gunbroker to see what they really bring. Compare that to what an original k98k brings, or a Finnish M91 or M91/30. Sporters bring less - usually much, much less.

A great 308 best starts with a Remington, Winchester, Howa, Savage, or other commercial receiver.
 
I don't care what you think Ash. I know that the rifle would outshoot from a rest at 100 yards a model 700 CDL in 243 and a Model 70 in 30-06. I know that I started with a quality barrel , a Tikka, *gasp*, I reblued it professionally I recrowned it professionally , I glass bedded it and installed top of the line hardware, not ATI as you ignorantly implied.
Again, I am not a collector of milsurps, I could care less what an unmodified beat to hell Mosin brings or for that matter any sort of collectors piece.
I do care what I put into a project and what type of profit I pull out of it. Purported? I am surprised you can spell that word since you are oblivious to what a good sporter will bring on the market.
There are people out there beyond the sphere of collectors that will pay a premium for a well built sporter, despite if you can believe it or not.
 
All right, all right. Let's not waste any more heated words on that sort of thing, please. Thank you for sharing, H.O.T.H., it helps see what sorts of things are possible.

...Back to Jason's current questions...
 
To the O.P.,

How serious of a rifleman are you, how much experience do you have shooting different types of rifles, cartridges and under what kind of conditions (range or field, cold freezing weather, wet rainy, etc.)?

When you go changing physical features such as of a rifle to carbine you are creating a entirely new gun that handles entirely differently than before. A simple example is the Mosin 91/30 and the M-44 Carbine. Same action, same cartridge but oh so different handling guns.
 
problem is though finding .311 bullets is a pain in the rear
Really? Just at your local shop, or elsewhere too? If you can shop online, there are tons. Anything in the .303", 7.7mm, or 7.62x39 or 7.62x54R category is the right diameter: http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=24&newcategorydimensionid=20613

There's a lot of stuff right now that is out of stock -- in all calibers -- because of still being in the tail end of "the panic" of '13, but a lot of the bullets listed there are still for sale, in stock.

The bigger thing for me would be finding reloadable 7.62x54R brass, but again, here it is in stock: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...brass-762x54mm-rimmed-russian-762x53mm-rimmed

the stripper clips dont even work particularly well, they fit into the cutout for them, but often the cartridges wont go in unless the angle is just right,
Stripper clips almost always take a bit of practice, and technique, to get to work well. Rimmed cartridges have a certain way you load the clip to help them feed best. The Swiss K-31 style clips are the very best ever and don't have those problems, but they aren't found just everywhere.

...anyway, we've discussed the K31 and the mausers.. what about the 8mm steyr M1895? (as i said, im OK with staying with 8mm mauser).
Well, there were three 8mm cartridges the 1895 Steyr was chambered for. 8x50mm, 8x56mm, and a few in 8mm Mauser (7.92x57mm).

Checking with the Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr-Mannlicher_M1895) it doesn't sound like many of them were in the Mauser cartridge (pretty rare), and those don't use the en bloc clips but normal stripper clips.

I've heard of some people loading the 8x56mm Steyr/Hungarian round but I've never met anyone who does.

... what known issues are there with this rifle? how hard would it be to find replacement parts for should anything break?.
Honestly, it isn't something I'd choose for a "shoot it thousands of times and rely on it forever" rifle. They aren't universally common and parts might be a little hit-and-miss. I don't think anyone's shot one enough to wear one out in the last 70 or 80 years so who knows? :)

Numrich does carry some parts: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Steyr-33512/M-95StraightPull-42197.htm

i know most people use military surplus rifles for the occasional recreation shooting, or just as a wall hanger, but myself, i actually prefer a decent bolt action over my AK-74, i prefer the harder hitting, more accurate, deeper penetrating nature of bolt action cartridges so whichever one i upgrade to is going to be my primary rifle for everything.. if i had one that didnt have those issues the mosin had, id use it over my AK if i needed anything for any kind of defense.. in fact, i find myself grabbing my 20" M38 mosin nagant OVER my shotgun if i hear a noise i may need to check out (tons of wildlife here including bears)
Sounds like a Yugo M24/48 or Czech vz.24 Mauser in 8x57mm would be an excellent choice. Prevalent, common, powerful, easy to load for, tons of spare parts -- and spare rifles! -- around. Very robust, very proven design. Still pretty much a "gold standard" for rifle designs today, with the classic controlled-round feed and claw extractor made into the quintessential American hunting rifle by the incorporation of those features into the original style Winchester model 70s. (I would not wait for, search for, or PAY for a K98 these days. The Czech and Yugoslav rifles will be cheaper and most probably better.)

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An Enfield (especially a No.4 Mk II) would be a very, very good second choice.

1903s/'03A3s and Model of 1917s following behind only because you don't see many of them anymore, and certainly will pay a heavy price if you do.

this is why barrel life, and thus the ability to rebarrel should one be shot out or damaged, finding replacement parts, the reliability and ease of stripper clips since ill be relying on them more than magazines, and of course, the cost of ammunition all become important factors, and i dont want to rely on surplus ammo that could dry up, maybe even be banned and leave me with something i cant shoot, which is why its important i find something that has brass and bullets readily available for reloading

Again, the Mauser would be king here, followed up by the Enfield in .303. Rifles built to be shot, used as clubs and spears and tent posts, and then to go on and win wars with. You couldn't wear one out in your lifetime, though replacement barrels are easy and cheap. Ammo super easy to reload and you won't be relying on surplus these days.

does the bolt in the steyr-mannlicher 1895 rifle lock in the same way as the K31?
No. The locking mechanism is different. The Steyr design was later used in the Ross rifle (Canada) but that proved an evolutionary dead end. The K-31 is a much more modernized design and probably considerably stronger.
 
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