+1 on the Range Officer Target. Mine is a stainless 9mm and is operated telepathically.I have a 9mm Springfield Armory Range Officer Target model that I swear if I loaded it & laid it down it would drive tacks all day long. The only reason it isn't that accurate is because I insist on holding it & shooting myself.
What is a "platform?"
mavracer said:
This is complicated.your are big head in your army and you got task to choose new handgun
heh... methinks this could be the general icon for a lot of these gun & shooting forums
Probably I stole it, @someguy2800 used it in another thread.heh... methinks this could be the general icon for a lot of these gun & shooting forums
Probably I stole it, @someguy2800 used it in another thread.
Oops sorry I had to go look again it was South Prairie JimIf I did I don't remember it, but I'm very much guilty. I have way too many guns and don't shoot them all enough but I can't help but keep buying the shiny new thing that catches my eye.
Your mind went to the same place as mine. Well explained. The real need for a whole force issued pistol is more of a LE function or a tertiary self defense concern of a military force. Understanding that the KISS Principle fully applies. Simple, accurate and reliable while being pretty accurate is kind of why Glock is in all the holsters it is. Add to that the low relative cost of a Glock and 9mm ammo it makes sense. But like you mention Darwin is always a factor.This is complicated.
Realistically, I'd get them all trained up on a lightweight M4 to a minimum standard, as I want them engaging at 100-300m ranges, not 10 to 30m.
The best scoring of that group would be further tested, and the top third issued a DMR rifle.
Realistically, an Army only "needs" about 10 pistols per 800 troops, and that's combat troops not supporting arms forces. And a Glock 44 would suffice for those 10. To be fair to OP, the logical, military answer is likely a Glock 19, as what is wanted is a "service sized" open-carry arm of simple utility.
In military use, you cooed swap pout 90% of the carried pistols for Demix replicas and not affect military outcomes in the slightest (and measurable net gains in avoided ND, and not having to supply ammo and training time).
Those are very military needs, and that's not really what OP was asking. For en masse training, what is likely wanted is simple, and with few parts and not wanting a lot of complicated maintenance. Thus the Glock looms large (other than the take-down issues), so, perhaps a SIG or Beretta migh tbe a better choice.
Mind, a person could make an argument for a Tokarev here--leave all the "fiddly" bits off--but the large "you" as to be acceptable to the notion of Training via Darwin, to really make that work.
Personally, I'd much rather presume that only those motivated to seek out the skills wanted by a handgun, will consider their own, specific, needs (concealment, weight, round counts, etc.) and choose what's best for themselves. I'm fairly convinced there is not a one-size-fits-most answer to this.
It's a fashionable buzzword. In some isolated instances like AR:s it has some limited substance as numerous manufacturers build compatible guns, parts and accessories, but other than that, it's rather irrelevant.What is a "platform?"
Sorry to disagree but its not. Gun is overall cathegory and that carry almost no information at all. If i say i have a rifle, you will know its some kind of long gun and thats it.It's a gun. Calling it a gun is the intellectually honest choice. End of story.
I'm sorry but unfortunately I can't follow your logic right now. "Platform" is even far more ambiguous (and often pretentious) word for what may or may not be specified in further detail. The whole word can be associated with anything from a gun in mall ninja firearm terminology to an area where you board a train - and everything in between. It has dozens of meanings hence it doesn't mean anything without a context.Gun is overall cathegory and that carry almost no information at all. If i say i have a rifle, you will know its some kind of long gun and thats it.
Many days, we would take our .22's out for a day of plinking and hang targets, before I had a chance to load my mags, he would shoot the tacks out of mine, dropping my target to the ground!
There's this ancient semi auto...Most accurate handgun platform...for noobs
Ahhhh…the ‘tack driving’ thread comes back!
As for the thread here….start with the basics, 22 cal semi auto or revolver, go from there…
Trigger control and sight picture are the foundations of accuracy. And IMO, these fundamentals (and safety) are the most important aspect for a new shooter.For a .new shooter, accuracy isnt the most important aspect, being able to manipulate it, the controls the trigger, an understanding the sights.
I don't recall this thread having anything to do with carry.Finding a practical caliber, a safe variety and the appropriate holster or carry method.
Accuracy just doesn't happen. Marksmanship is the product of quality practice and commitment, and from what I've seen, most shooters could use a lot more of it.accuracy will come sooner or later
Yep - to a large degree, shootin's shootin'.I said "shouldn't be a problem. The fundamentals are the same."
Well dang.... I dont remember this thread having anything to do with competing. Or archery either.Trigger control and sight picture are the foundations of accuracy. And IMO, these fundamentals (and safety) are the most important aspect for a new shooter.
I don't recall this thread having anything to do with carry.
True story #1: When I was competing, I competed almost exclusively with a revolver. At some point, I needed a change, so I picked up a semi-auto, practiced a day or so with it, then shot a single sanctioned match with it to get my master card in that division. Shootin's shootin'.
True story #2: I once took an archery class with my kids. I never shot archery before, but once I got a few details figured out, I was dropping the arrows with their rental recurve right into the 10-ring. The instructors never asked me my background, but just chalked it up to me being "a natural". I'm not a natural, and push back on the idea of "naturals". The truth is that I had put a lot of time into "the fundamentals"; and as I've often told folks, put in the time on the fundamentals, and the shooting world is your oyster, no matter the "platform". Blow the fundamentals off, and whether you know it or not, you'll struggle with everything you do.
For any new shooter the limiting factor probably isn't the firearm. Assuming they can fit their hand around the grip and reach the trigger, the gun is probably not the issue.
Offering my experience to the contrary - I’ve taught and have helped teach handgun classes of various sorts for the last 20yrs, and have witnessed numerous new shooters which bring their DAO or sub-compact/snubby to a class, then with it fail the qualification CoF. Hand them a Ruger Mark II/III, and it’s done. Even to the extent that upon the inception of these “combat style” 22LR’s like the S&W M&P22 and Ruger SR22, students would bring those as I always recommend bringing a 22Lr if they have them… and subsequently fail the qualification CoF. It even happened in an instructor course a few years ago which I RSO’d the range/live fire portion, one of the students failed the CoF to certify with an SR22 and then was allowed to reshoot with a Mark III.
I chalk it up to the same principle as the old yarn: “if you don’t measure it, you can’t manage it.” And when new shooters are struggling with some challenging aspect of the firearm design - like struggling with a long & heavy DAO trigger or iron sights or small grips or especially struggling with poor sights or a short sight radius - their results suffer on target. When someone is spraying bullets all over a wall, it’s impossible to measure which fundamental technique is the culprit. The signal is lost in the noise. So isolating variables, such as using a moderate weight pistol with good muzzle balance and a great grip size, and a clean, lightish single action trigger, and a red dot sight (about as new-shooter-friendly as a pistol can get) REALLY helps new shooters leap forward in the other aspects of marksmanship. Then we can transition smoothly into more challenging attributes like tiny grip frames and terrible sights on a pocket 380, or long DAO triggers, tackling absorption of as few variables at one time as possible.