Most Likely SHTF Scenario and Your Payload?

[possum]

for me
Rifle: mak-90
sidearm: Glock 19
Assaukt pack: extra mags and ammo for all the weapons.
ammo: 210 basic load on person and more in pack for ak
46 rds for glock 3-15rd mags +1

my wife
Rifle: Bushmaster m4a3 with the trimmings
Sidearm: Kahr k-40 he only pistol i have that she likes.
ammo: m16 mags x7 , 2 6rd mags +1 for the kahr.

My brother
shotgun: Remington 870 HD with all the trimmings
sidearm: glock 19
ammo: as much as he can stuff in his pockets for the shotgun. 3-5 mags for the glock.

My Dad
Rifle: Bushmaster m4a3 with a few trimmings as well.
sidearm: glock 17
ammo: 7 mags for the m4, and 3-5 for glock.

 

[kahr404life]

HSO, I understand what you are saying.

 

[mljdeckard]

I don't think that oil alone will be the cause. Yes, we are addicted, BUT we also have more means to adapt if we were forced to. Other nations can't even do that. I think we would emerge from it with a certain ammount of discomfort, inconvenience, and forced lifestyle change, while other nations would be devastated. MORE LIKELY, is the idea that we would SURVIVE such a crisis, and this would make us even more a target for the rest of the world.

A wise man once explained to me that Americans are for the most part, lazy and complacent. BUT, WHEN WE START GOING HUNGRY FOR NO GOOD REASON, we will remember who we are.

I honestly think the most immediate crisis to plan for is something like Katrina. A localized, short-term disaster. 72 hours worth of supplies would have helped those people out a lot. They didn't need enough ammo to fight a war, just enough to keep the bad guys away from them.

I kind of break it down into two general categories. Digging in, and bugging out. If you are digging in, you will need enough supplies to hold you over until the crisis passes. You have the luxury of heavier weapons and more food/cooking options. If you are bugging out, on the other hand, you need to be prepared to move from a bad place to a better place. Probably on foot. Maybe a LONG way. This means you should have personalized, comprehensive gear that you can carry with a good supply of food. (I know I'll get some jeers for this, but I am a mormon, and there is a running theory that we will be forced to move the HQ of the church from Salt Lake City to somewhere in the midwest. It's not very specific, and I usually scoff at people who pretend to know a lot about this, but I do have it in my head, walking halfway across the country for one reason or another.) The nation might be split in half, like in Red Dawn, when America was invaded specifically to capture the agricultural land, and you might have to escape from an occupied zone to a friendly zone. I think in terms of moving my family, on foot, more than 1000 miles.

I'm sure if I was walking a long way, I would LIKE to have something in .308, but I would probably keep the M-4 for weight considerations. (I had an M1A, I think I would rather get an AR-10 than another M1A. Maybe I'll get around to a SOCOM along the way.) It would probably be a good idea to keep an SKS and or an AK around, just because that round is the most plentiful in the world, and if we are invaded by any force large enough to overwhelm us, some of them will be using this round, this is more likely than any other round. These rifles are inexpensive enough, ANYONE can afford to buy an SKS to have JUST IN CASE, even if they never use it for anything else. Buy it packed in cosmoline, and just keep it.

My wife or one of my younger boys could use my M-1 carbine, but if I plan on using that one, I better stock up on the ammo now. Sellier & Bellot sell bulk 00 buck, one should have a few cases of that, I suppose there would be plenty of 9mm to be had, but I think I would pick up one of those that had been dropped before I run out of .45 for my Kimber. As for how MUCH ammo, use your brain, consider what you really NEED and not what feels cool. Meaning, I love my .45, but it is a last-ditch defensive weapon, and it's not putting any food on the table. Put the emphasis on your MOST EFFECTIVE weapons. If I was digging in, I would keep a lot more. If I was bugging out, I would be limited by weight, and forced to prioritize my shots.

I would want to hunt to live as I went, but there could be some kind of envronmental catastrophe that makes game very scarce. The bulk of the weight should probably be MRE entrees. This is the highest-calory, most shelf-stable item I can think of.

Burying a cache in case TSHTF is a whole other thread.

 

[Templar223]

SHTF = Bug Out?

I think there's a lot of folks who say they are going to bug in event of SHTF that haven't thought things through.

If it's a national economic collapse, what makes you think Illinois or Missouri is going to be more hospitable to you than your own hometown? How are you going to bug 500 miles? Expect to be the only people on the road, hmm? Seems a lot of folks would be better off staying in their local community.

And if you live in Chicago or similar big city, expect the major arteries to be clogged as everyone else has the same bright idea. Add in breakdowns from poor folk driving clap-trap cars that break down / run out of gas within the first 25-50 miles and you're now bugged onto a highway with nowhere to go. Trapped on I-95. Just lovely.

IMHO, after looking like the fool on Y2K, I don't think there is a likely SHTF scenario. Maybe something regional here like a bad earthquake or maybe some bird flu action - but even that is a l-o-n-g shot. The August 22 pronouncement by that kook in Iran is about as close to a possible SHTF we're likely to face - and that's about as likely to amount to a hill of beans as we are to see bigfoot in our lives. In either event, I'm staying close to home or at one of a few rally locations nearby. Short of a chemical release from the Newport Army Chemical Storage Depot or a radioactive release from Clinton Nuclear Power plant, I can't imagine the need to flee my county.

If something unlikely happens, I'll bring a whole compliment of stuff that I fish out of the bottom of the lake. Damn shame I lost all that stuff in that tragic boating accident. Sure hope they aren't too rusty!

John

 

[Travis McGee]

Great thread! But out vs dig in, weapons, transportation, mob psychology during an exodus....

Just thinking these scenarios through and laying away some preps puts one far ahead of 95% of the sheeple.

 

[the naked prophet]

By far the most likely scenarios are the least severe and require the least preparation, and therefore provide the most benefit for which we can prepare: a home invasion. I think this has been covered plenty in other threads.

Next likely is a local event which affects an entire city, such as a large thunderstorm similar to or larger than the one that knocked out the power in St. Louis for over a week. It wouldn't have needed to be much bigger before serious problems would have started happening. This is where it helps to have a week or two worth of food, fuel, batteries, water, etc. Also more likely to need guns to fight off those who are used to getting what they want without working, and didn't store up for the future. This could also include riots, a small localized terrorist attack (a few bombs, etc.) or other events which could affect your city and not much else. Obviously it would be best to get out of town, but for example the LA riots closed off several streets, and the recent storm in St. Louis knocked out the electricity to many gas stations - if you didn't have enough gas to get far enough out of town that the gas pumps were working... you were stuck (like my mother-in-law).

Strategy for something like this is to bug in to your home, and wait for things to settle down - assuming you have a couple weeks food, water, and supplies. My mother-in-law came to stay with us for a week.

Even less likely than that, is the regional event. America's most powerful geological fault has been silent for too long - the New Madrid Fault is overdue for "The Big One." The last big earthquake on this fault rang church bells in Massachussets, but luckily there were very few people living nearby at the time. Nowadays, it would disrupt power, water, and transportation in a large radius, probably causing significant damage in St. Louis, Springfield, etc. And I'm right in the middle of all that. You may not be able to get out of town if there are raised highways on your way out. Railways that deliver coal to power plants may be destroyed and most big power plants like St. Louis and KC only keep a few hours supply on hand! The water mains in many places are still made of clay (!!!) and others are aging. So you're looking at no power, no water, and no transportation in just a few minutes over an area nearly the size of Texas, covering nine states. Keep in mind that California geology mitigates earthquakes very well, while Mississippi valley geology makes widespread damage more likely.

For something like this, you'd better have six months of water, food, toilet paper, medical supplies, and enough guns to fight off hungry criminals for six months or longer. You may not be able to go anywhere, nearby rivers may have been diverted or subsumed so you can't count on your water filter helping you much. If you can get to an unaffected area, you should probably move.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I would agree with the economy/energy crisis being our undoing, or a terrorist detonating a dirty nuke in a major city. As far as my weapons of choice, here they are:

Rifle-My SKS with 20 stripper clips of 7.62, plus another duffle bag
full of ammo.

Shotgun-My Mossberg 500 12 gauge with at least 250 buckshot
shells.

Handgun-My Springfield XD40 with 500 rounds of 155 grain hollowpoint.

Alternate handgun-My Taurus Tracker 357 magnum, 500 rounds minimum.

I live out in the country, so if the SHTF, I'm staying put and hoping that I thought ahead enough to stockpile food, medicine, water, and other supplies. If a band of thugs tried to invade this place, they would be dealt with severely.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

I have 2 rifles that cover all the scenarios I can think of that are most likely to happen.

1] Home invasion. This is a criminal situation. This is a situation where they have the element of surprise. I have little to no time.

Saiga 7.62x39.

Simple, robust, reliable and powerful. Cartridge is useful for home defense - can easily penetrate interior walls as well as cabinets, furniture and other obstacles between the lead I'm launching and the scumbag(s) waiting to receive it. I am 100% the opposite of all the THR advocates of lesser-penetrating ammo. My motto is - over penetration is an asset, not a liability.

No fancy lights, no fancy reddots. No tactical-ninja garbage. Nothing to get in the way. Nothing to slow you down in your time to engagement. 1 simple operation - charge it via charging handle and rock n' roll. That's it. Point and shoot. Home defense distances are short, real short unless you're Bill Gates. No need for optics. No need for sights. Situation will largely be a display of quick and blinding violence. Reality is, you'll be sighting the weapon like a shotgun and pulling the trigger.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/8287436/detail.html

Here's a home invasion scenario that really happened and was discussed here on THR a while back. Note that that a lot of the shooting occured when there was a victim(s) in one room with the invader in a hallway or other room and shooting taking place through a door.


It is critical to find a cartridge that will go through **at least** one door and still have enough juice left to take out the invader who is hell bent on killing you.




2] Riots, gang wars, looting. Post-natural disaster.

Colt 6520 (16" superlight) w/ Aimpoint (4moa, 50,000hr battery life) and BUIS - 6 USGI magazines loaded with 75gr Hornady TAP (210 rds total). Side arm - Springfield XD Tactical, 9mm, loaded with 115gr +p+ Ranger, 16 + 1.

In these situations, there's some warning - sometimes very little, sometimes days or weeks worth. Either way, there's enough time to get the rifle, strap on your ammo, turn on your red dot and get ready.

AR-15 is fast to shoot, quick to reload and is accurate. In this scenario, shots greater than 50 yards may be possible depending if the rioting mob is into Molotovs or is armed with firearms. If they have firearms, they are fair game at any range. The key here is speed in engagement, speed in reloading. Red dot rules here for fast engagement. You may have 5-7 thugs trying to burn your house down from all directions. You must be able to engage 360 degrees, rapid fire and from distances that might be in your face to 100 yards out or more. So a 0-200 yard platform is ideal. Move and shoot. Rifle should be short, light and ergonomic. Thugs will be moving and moving fast.

Having an optic that is night-capable is essential as you won't be going to bed, but be on guard and alert.

For a post-natural disaster, this serves well. Lightweight, and can engage targets out to 200 yards no problem if you need to leave your home to search for food/water/fuel. Also works well if you need to evacuate the area by foot if the disaster is substantial.

If you choose to stay home and defend it - will work well against any looters or thugs, in close or far away. Lightweight is ideal as you can keep it on your body for the duration without getting tired.

So bug in, or bug out - you're good to go. Night/day - good to go. Short duration, long duration - good to go.


**

For revolutions, uprisings, civil wars etc...well, that all depends on what your strategy is - defensive/offensive. IE, are you going to stay out of the way and just protect your butt, or are you going to be a participant? If a participant, in what role? Will you go around and assassinate political opponents or others who you deem to be on "the other side" or aiding or assisting the other side's movement?...or join up with gangs/militias etc..and participate in raids, ambushes or other activities?


There's other situations, like post-nuclear war. Massive outbreak of disease. Super-natural disaster like meteor strike etc....

These situations are above and beyond just firearms choices. In these situations, you are going to have to weigh them by how long their effects will last. If it is years or decades, then your firearm strategy must be compatible with that. This gets more into survivalism. You have to gauge how society will react to it, and for how long. Outbreak of disease could be pure and total chaos where it will be everyone out for themselves. This could be really bad. Not that nuclear war, meteor strike or anything else couldn't result in people defaulting into savages...it is the duration of chaos that is critical. That effects the choice of rifle, cartridge etc..

 

[The Guy]

You know, in these situations, how will we know each other from the bad guys. I mean, you look out your window and see a couple of guys with various weapons, one black, one white and one mexican (no this is not the begining of a joke) moving down the street weapons in hand.

Do you shoot first, and do you shoot to kill, or a warning shot to understand intentions?

Do you wait them out to see if they pass by, or does that give them the chance to get close in before they try to kill you?

If you are the one walking down the street, and a bullet hits the concrete in front of you, is it an itchy trigger finger, a plain miss, or is someone trying to kill you?

This is all complicated more in a larger city, and less in the open country, but should be thought about.

I know for sure that I don't want to get in a firefight with one of you all, and I hope all of you feel the same about me, but hey, how will we know.

P.S. Maybe we all need THR hats and armbands or something!

 

[sacp81170a]

Thinking about the economic collapse and bugging out, we've already experienced this once in our country. I'm talking about the Dust Bowl, the Depression, and the Okies and Arkies who bugged out to California in search of better lives. I have relatives living now who moved to California in the 30's and 40's. One great aunt in particular now alternates between her home here and her home in California. Most of her family from California has now moved back to Arkansas, seeking more freedom and less crime.

That said, it seems like a migration *is* going on. I'd be very interested to see a complete study of the demographics and direction of this migration. Anybody aware of such a study?

 

[Zen21Tao]

Scenerio: "The balloon drops"

Rifle: AR15 with silenced .22lr upper receiver and supersonic ammo
Pistol: Silenced Ruger 22
Shotgun: don't need one with ARs.
Alternate weapon: 2nd AR15 w/ silenced 22lr

Weapons carried in state of the art Tactical Wheelbarrow.

 

[skers69]

What if SHTF...and we get into a situation where you can not have your guns...see New Orelens Superdome. What then? Would you turn around and go back to where you were or continue on? I know I would not give up my firearms with out a fight. Just food for thought.

Anyway. My senerio is a dirty bomb attack of some sort that forces you to evac from your current home.

1. I would take my p226 9mm. This would be my carry piece. Good close quarter gun.
2. I would take my mossy 500 12 gague. Good for close quarter and I could hunt with it.
3. I would take my rem 700 30-06. Good long range gun and could hunt with it.
4. I would take my CZ 75 d pcr. Another 9mm so we could keep ammo down to one pistol round. Wife also could use with out much problem.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

What if SHTF...and we get into a situation where you can not have your guns...see New Orelens Superdome. What then? Would you turn around and go back to where you were or continue on? I know I would not give up my firearms with out a fight. Just food for thought.

Why would you voluntarily enter a death camp like the Superdome? That was a last minute disaster set up for those who didn't even realize a storm was coming until 1hr before it hit. For them, the heinousness of the Superdome was marginally better than facing the Cat 5 weather outside.


As for shelters and other things...I would never go to one of those. They prohibit firearms. That's a disarmament zone. Not only do they disarm you, but then they offer no protection for you. You're basically helpless in a building/camp. To make matters worse, they might force you to stay. If you leave, you might not be able to get back to your home as the police have sealed off sections of town. That's right. You won't be able to even go back to your own privately owned property because the city owns the street that gets you there!


Best bet is to not live in a flood zone and have a home with cinderblock construction, and then have your home hurricane proofed as much as possible. That means window protection and reinforcing the roof. I'd rather stay on my destroyed property than be herded like sheep by the "gubmint"...


If the confiscators come like they did in New Orleans, well...I don't know. You'll have some tough choices to make. Best thing is to be prepared in advance. That means not keeping all your eggs in one basket if you know what I mean. Let them leave after confiscating your Jennings or Hipoint. Then go dig up your AK or AR. Unless you want to put your foot down in the face of tyranny and open fire. Be prepared to engage in a gun battle with multiple police officers backed by the National Guard. Unlike what the apologists say, they aren't there just for show. Odds are against you, but at least you'll make their confiscation mission very distasteful. Better yet, if you're the revolutionary type...find other locals as crazy (or brave depending on perspective) as you and pre-plan ambushes. Just like the men at Concord and Lexington. Attack them on their route. Or like Hezbollah that prepared the terrain in advance hiding weapon caches in key locations. Only problem is, after a storm, unless you're very well prepared, you'll want to be more interested in finding water/food and electricity than having it out with the JBT's. Unfortunately, the political climate in our society will not view you actions as positively as it did for the men in Massachusetts. You'll be nothing more than a criminal terrorist thug and they'll send every asset they have to hunt you down and make an example of you.


There's no reason to die or take on the government during a post-hurricane scenario. In the end, the government failed by becoming the badguy. They were defeated in court, they were defeated in the battle for public opinion. Most states are passing laws against firearm confiscations. Not that it will actually STOP them in the future, but at least there's a law you can directly cite (besides the 2nd Amendment which is ignored). The tyrants in New Orleans did worse for their cause than good. Instead of confiscating all the arms and creating a gun-free utopia, they've instead generated a massive demand for more guns. They've also taught every single citizen in the South East what the government is capable of doing and how they'll do it. People now own more guns, and people now know what to expect of their government. Future confiscations will be significantly more difficult because citizens will be more beligerent and they will also hide many arms. Who knows, maybe even a few will resist.



PS... +1 to the tactical wheelbarrow...the legacy of gunkid lives on!

 

[bowfin]

Most likely scenario in my part of the counry is a tornado.

Bottled Water, Insulin for my son, and toilet paper comes before a gun. I don't live on either coast or a big city, so I will see more helpers than looters.

My most likely gun to carry would be my Makarov, because I have a great holster for it, and then my Ruger Blackhawk .357 in stainless steel, because it shines real nice in the moonlight. In my opinion, big shiny guns are better deterrents because they can be seen at a distance. I know this from experience.

If you know people trouble is coming, then ditch the handguns and get a 12 gauge, but again, I think we would have more saints than sinners.

 

[ctdonath]

SHTF Scenario 1: Go home. Now.
Don't know, or care, why this would happen ... but I spend a lot of time not at home, and my prime scenario is needing to get home without driving. Walking the 16+ miles home from work is no biggie, but with whatever social crash causing me to do so it might take a couple days under uncooperative circumstances.
Payload: standard 72-hour bugout bag featuring change of clothes, 2 MREs, minimal shelter, first aid stuff, misc small camping gear, and Glock 26 with 40 rounds in 3 magazines. May add silencer, and/or SBR in discreete case.

SHTF Scenario 2: Stay home, long time.
Social meltdown means nobody is going anywhere for a while. Wait for Darwin to sift 'em out. No electricity, gasoline, natural gas, and/or groceries for a while. Better have food & heat to spare for months. Home is in single-entrance mid-to-upscale development with (for now) countryish buffer zone near lake. Hunker down until things settle. Don't expect a big fight, but quietly prepared and able to show (and use) force to establish peace.
Payload: A full pantry (in constant rotation) augmented with a big ol' sack of rice, woodburning fireplace, sufficient woods in backyard (fuel), lake (water) within walking distance, water filters, stock Colt 6933 AR15 with suppressor, scout rifle in .308, 2 9mm Glocks, and a few other guns all with a thousand or so rounds on hand.

SHTF Scenario 3: No home. Now what?
Northeastern Georgia gets pretty much wiped out. No home to bug out/in to. No warning? unlikely, but have BOB handy to get me started. Some warning? Throw suitable stuff in car and head north to homestead-lifestyle family; 1000 mile drive can be done in 1 day, so long as I can get gas & keep going - not a lot of geographic bottlenecks around here.
Payload: what camping gear, food & guns can be thrown into car in time.

SHTF Scenario 4: Long day's journey into night.
Society takes Argentina's lead, with gradual and total economic collapse. Entire middle class heads for poverty. Bills & taxes still need paying, so you keep working - somehow. Probably the worst, most likely, and least sexy SHTF scenario. Fiat currency fails, debts (from your credit card to $10T national debt) are called in, majority of jobs fold because they're really not needed. Great Depression II.
Payload: no debt, self-sufficient homestead. My parents achieved this, I hope to. Guns (this isTHR) feature a few quality guns in assorted military calibers, a couple cases of 1-3 cheap but reliable guns (SKS etc.) to distribute as needed, and 1000+ rounds each.

Not every payload listed above is exactly what I have, but is what I want.
This is an oddly sobering thread for someone who has pondered survival for years. Need to categorize & write about some of this stuff to help refocus. The blog on Argentina's SHTF was helpful.

 

[EvisceratorSrB]

No, you guys are blind! Those ferocious squirrels mentioned in an earlier post will be the undoing! Beware...a Barrett .50BMG will be just fine

 

[grizz]

History reveals that the 1918-1919 flu pandemic killed over 50 million people worldwide. We ARE on the cusp of another pandemic NOW. When the bird flu, H5N1 evolves into a virus capable of human-to-human transmission, S could very easily HTF.

IMO, however, it could only be a combination of the flu pandemic, global tensions, and economic collapse to bring widespread chaos into the realm of reality. Sure, terrorist attacks are possible, but I'm in SLC, Utah and I doubt anyone is going to target Utah.

Also, I'm operating under the opinion that the USA's stockpile of nuclear weapons + a republican president are going to prevent anyone from being stupid enough to use WMD against us.

BUT, If I must bug out in a hurry for whatever reason, I will go to my cabin with the following:

1. RRA AR-15 w/ 6 mags + 1000 rounds
2. XD .40 tactical w/ 4 mags + 500 rounds
3. Rem. 870 w/ 300 rounds
4. DPMS Long-Range AR-10 w/ 500 rounds

+ 2 duffels with my extensive collection of personal camping gear and warm clothes.

I have a very reliable Jeep 4x4 and 3 possible routes off of major highways to the cabin pre-planned.

The cabin is already fully stocked with most of the ammo, food, first aid (including anti viral meds), water, backup water, clothes, fuel, off the grid power, etc. etc. It's in a very secure location, with plenty of game to hunt, and crops nearby.

Guns and ammo aside, I will also add that there are probably lots of people on this thread that don't have the survival skills, appropriate type of camping gear, or physical ability to survive more than 1 week in the wilderness.

 

[Arcticfox]

SHTF scenarios, like Katrina, will happen again. It could be a matter of natural disaster, or terrorist activities (remember, they are ACTIVELY trying to kill Americans). In any case, I don't see the Chinese marching down the streets, and certainly not the Iranians.

My only fear is opportunists, and predators. And I am talking about men! Look at WTO in Seattle! The so called 'anarchists' that beat people, and damaged property, are really just young, opportunistic thugs who found a lawless situation where they could get away with crime. Katrina is obviouly another scenario.

In light of this, I just want to deter such activity with big, Scary guns. I certainly don't want to kill anyone! I just want to keep the threat alive! (a modified, paraphrase from Lex Luther).

Do you remember the LA riots? Rememeber the Korean shop owners loading their revolvers in front of their stores? Remeber the Men on the roof tops with SKS rifles? Pretty much the only buildings in Watts that were untouched were the Korean, owned stores. In light of this, here are my tools of choice for "peace thru deterence:"

1)AK 47
2)870 Marine
3)Smith & Wesson .44

Alternate- SKS

Just my 2 cents.

 

[bouis]

I live on the outskirts of a fairly small (about 20,000 people, all together) town in northern Mississippi. It's pretty remote (~70 miles from Memphis) and about half the population is college students. A SHTF scenario would be just about anything where the trucks with food and gasoline stop coming, and the lights go dark. It'd probably be about a week before most people run out of food.

What scares me is that just about everybody around here owns at least one deer rifle. If someone wants to kill you, they can and they will. AR-15s and Glocks won't do you a lick of good out here.

Right now I'm woefully unprepared. A month worth of food. 30 gallons of gasoline. No water purification equipment. I really need to sit down and figure out exactly what I'd need. But I'll offer this advice: sandbags. If you have to seek cover in your home, the walls might as well be made of paper.

 

[HMMurdock]

These are classic. Thanks, everyone! I need to write a book about this or something...

TRL

 

[loandr.]

Have so much to fill the void in between its NOT funny

So wont bore you with the details of those applicable tools. I'll just give ya the LONG, and the SHORT of it.....for kicks

Serbu SuperShorty for those imtimate occassions
and Serbu BFG .50 BMG for those LONG distance relationships.....Minivan by day Battleship by night .

Bugging IN for sure....prep'ed accordingly end of 04 after the storms and havent looked back since ALL Food, water, medical, power etc. issues have been addressed and I sleep well knowing so

 

[entropy]

These threads were why NineSeven started Near Death Experiments.


www.neardeathexperiments.com


That said, I'll play:

Bug In: 870 stays on my person, M1911 stays on my person, SKS close at hand.

Bug out to ORP: Load up SUV for the short trek to ORP, all guns come with. Set up there.

Bug out Permanantly: Similar to first Bug out, different loadout. Either way M1911 on my hip, others depends on situation, but the SKS's and shotguns come with, and at least one Mosin.

 

[Roadwild17]

A local S@!F situation would be another Katrina, blizzard, w/e that totally disrupts life for an affected area, help would come in a few days (3 days to a week) so if your good for 2 weeks, your good.

It is far more likely that I would have to Bug Out for a situation like this than a TEOTHAWKI scenario. I believe a TEOTHAWKI would be factors of disease, failing economy, and a large terrorist attack. There would be no help because of a break-down of social and civil order, then it would be everyone on there own.

Unlike most here, my racecourses are limited: My only choices for arms are my High Standard 22 revolver, my G17, My “ON THE WAY” (whenever RRA decides to build the dang thin) A15/M4, a Marlin Mod 60, and a Remy 700 in -06 flavor, + an old shotgun or 2.

The most drastic changes to my personal protection from traveling versus staying put would be the amount of ammo brought along. I mean you cant defend yourself if your to weak to hold a gun because you haven’t eaten in 3 weeks or you have caught something.

 

[ilbob]

The most drastic changes to my personal protection from traveling versus staying put would be the amount of ammo brought along. I mean you cant defend yourself if your to weak to hold a gun because you haven’t eaten in 3 weeks or you have caught something.

The biggest issue is having some place to travel to. You can't just wonder around aimlessly from place to place while using up the little bit of supplies you are able to carry on your back.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

The biggest issue is having some place to travel to. You can't just wonder around aimlessly from place to place while using up the little bit of supplies you are able to carry on your back.
------------------------------------------

Good point. Im looking for property now as weekend getaway/ retreat to spot.
As far as weapons go; I plan on taking every gun I own with me. Load them in the car with the ammo. They'll do not good staying behind.

My opinion on the crap hitting the fan: I think it will be more of a gradual downward cycle. I really dont think any major nationwide affecting catastrophic event will occur that throws us into the stonage. It think it will be a gradual decline of our civilization brought on by oil shortages/rising oil prices, crime, slumping economy, moral decay, etc. etc. It will get to the point that anyone who can afford land will get out of the major cities. It happened here in New Orleans on a much smaller scale back in the 80's; it was refered to as the "white flight". Most anyone who could, moved out of the city. Perhaps that is what will eventually happen, maybe you'll have "pockets" of folks living in small communities like what you saw on the movie "The Postman", and there will no longer be suburbia right outside of major cities.