Fine Figure of a Man
Member
If those results are typical, I would do a lot more plinking before I carried that gun.
My advice to people just getting into carry
- Thread starter Wanderling
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Trunk Monkey
member
Have you ever been in a real life situation? I've been in a couple of them. I don't have to speculate on what it might be like.
Trunk Monkey
member
I get the feeling you're absolutely correct. I have zero us for the Little Crappy Pistol
Jeb Stuart
member
Lol, I Figured you could hot handle one. That is ok, not every one can. Appears the crappy little gun got the best of ya. I love it when someone underestimates a crappy little gun. .
And I have found that many shooters that are very good with the small pistols also do quite well with the larger Pistols. No offense but your groups at 15 yds with a large pistol are ok, but nothing out of the ordinary.
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Jeb Stuart
member
He said that he only had about two hundred rounds through the gun. There are many that can do very well with the small guns. Especially those that are dedicated to shooting them and have been shooting them for years. I know that for a fact.
Trunk Monkey
member
FIFY.
WADR that's extremely poor shooting dude. I highly recommend some actual training before you carry a gun outside your home
Jeb Stuart
member
Monkey, I might suggest your worry more about the bad guys, and your ability and training, rather than focus on Wanderlings.
Trunk Monkey
member
I'll take that under advisement.
I'll also point out I'm not the only one saying it was crappy shooting
Trey Veston
Member
Before I carried my G19, I took it out and practiced shooting it fast.
Did a mag dump in 5 seconds at 7yds drawing from concealment and all shots were within 4.25". Acceptable to me...
Did a mag dump in 5 seconds at 7yds drawing from concealment and all shots were within 4.25". Acceptable to me...
Jeb Stuart
member
Heck, I bet there are tens of thousands of folks that bought these guns and say they are Crappy shooters. I could not hit the side of a barn door with the first one I bought. In fact, I remember well the first time I shot one just like it was yesterday and that was about 10 years ago.. Almost missed the entire target. I remember the bullet went high Right, almost hit the hanger. Hurt my finger like hell. The only difference in you and me, was the fact that I did not blame the gun. On the contrary, I blamed myself for lack of shooting skills with this little sucker. And for sure I was not about to let this little gun show me up. Too much pride for that. Started a journey of shooting these little guns on a regular basis and the only thing I can say, is this. A WHOLE lot of improvement along the way. In fact to the point that I became to admire what they can do and how well they can shoot. No not just the LCP but even smoother Pocket guns as well.
Take the Challenge Monkey, you can do it, don't let this little gun send you running into a corner. Once you get to know him, he won't bite you anymore.
*And the funny thing is, after taking charge of the gun, I no longer thought about the recoil, my finger no longer hurt and I could shoot the heck out of this little gun.
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Old Dog
Member
No one has said that, but as one member has advised you, YOU are responsible for every round leaving the barrel of your handgun. And unless you are proficient -- AND have a clear field of fire -- you probably should not take the shot. And I certainly, over the years, have not seen very many folks who demonstrate a high level of proficiency with little pistols.
Previously in this thread I said
While you may like little guns because they are lightweight and (in your opinion) more concealable, to me it's akin to the choice of what one drives on the highway. Certainly, a Prius might get considerably better gas mileage than a half-ton pickup truck, but I've seen the results of a collision between a Prius and a half-ton pickup. I'll be the guy in the Silverado or F-150 every day of the week. Potential safety over perceived convenience.
Trunk Monkey
member
First I'd like to point out that the other poster didn't say anything about "starting a journey" he thought that the spray and pray results he posted were completely acceptable. He's ready to carry that gun in public.
Second, I'm certain I could master an LCP. In fact I'm certain I could pick one up at random and produce a better group than your friend. Something, Something Indian not the arrow, but why should I waste time with a gun and caliber that I consider suboptimal? I wouldn't carry an LCP if I had any other option so why should I seek one out?
Trunk Monkey
member
It’s as easy as with Glock 17 to hit the center of mass at 15 ft after a little training, yes. Absolutely. I am not talking about repeatedly hitting the bullseye after careful aiming.
Funny that you should say that, as I did it just yesterday. This was not done with careful aiming but a high speed mag dump after pulling the gun out of a pocket holster. 15 ft, 7+1 rounds.
I'd like to point out that the poster claims to have shot 8 rounds and there are only 7 holes in the paper
JR24
Member
Looks like the 8th is on the bottom far left?
Trunk Monkey
member
So he hit two innocent bystanders
Jeb Stuart
member
Jeb, you don't like big trucks either? It's a little early, have you been into the bourbon already?
Lol, no Bourbon yet, but think I need one after listening to the monkey. Have nothing against Big Trucks, I drive one. Just get a little tired of vehicle comparisons with firearms. Sorry, no offense, Thinking about taking up Yoga.
This thread has really gotten away from the op's post. No I would not recommend a pocket gun to any new shooter. In fact I think it would be the worst firearm out there for someone. new. And yet millions sold to newbies over the years. At Least Trunk Monkey is honest and admits he cannot handle one. (I think they make him feel a little insecure). To tell you the truth, I have no idea what firearm for a Newbie. I started my son off with shooting BB guns and then on to 22.calibers. Bought him a SR22 for his birthday, but he enjoys my LCR22 more.
My son does not carry, but enjoy shooting, but has other interest. I let him make his own decisions. I think new shooters should just spend more time at the range, learn to have fun with shooting and slowly morph into the gun of their choice.
As I mentioned earlier, no matter what you carry, the need for consistent training and practice is essential. It is a big commitment to time and money.
Folks on this forum are for the most part big shooting enthusiast. But are all newbie"s wanting to carry big into the sport like we are? Do they have the ability to train often, buy a lot of ammo like we do? Many variables.
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Snowdog
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A P365 in a Kydex IWB holster is nearly invisible on me. Before that, it was a CM9 in the same type of rig, same thing. I find for me, a 9mm is a good fit for CCW. I have been carrying primarily a 9mm since my first CCW (in '99 IIRC), though I have had a short stint with a Sig 238HD (.380acp) before going back to a 9mm.
On rare occasion, I'll have my S&W model 60 (.38 special) on me.
Speaking of concealing, I do have a P32 with belt clip and I can carry that without a belt in my PJs, but I haven't found an opportunity to do that... yet.
On rare occasion, I'll have my S&W model 60 (.38 special) on me.
Speaking of concealing, I do have a P32 with belt clip and I can carry that without a belt in my PJs, but I haven't found an opportunity to do that... yet.
Jeb Stuart
member
How about this? double barrel using two fingers. 22mag
Snowdog
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That image caused an uncomfortable double-take like the M.C. Escher shirts of the 90's.
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Trunk Monkey
member
I'm not sure how you qualify some one as a "shooting enthusiast" but from what I've seen most of the people on this forum are gun accumulators who are mostly concerned with picking up that next shiny new toy.
I'm not sure what this even means in English but I don't consider shooting to be a sport.
I carry a gun because I'm required to do so at work or for self-defense when I'm not at work. Beyond that I don't give guns a whole lot of thought and that's probably why of the less than 10 that I own over half of them are some variation of a 9 mm Glock.
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OP
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Wanderling
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Sure. Trying to land as many shots on the target as possible while shooting as fast as possible is part of that. I am not saying that "spray and pray" is a good way for SD, quite the opposite. But in the real world scenario, who knows what can happen. I want to keep practicing until I land all shots on the target. I do think that for an average shooter, this is not the worst result for a mag dump - given that this is exactly 2nd time I tried it at all, and the first time with a LCP. Regardless of what people say, I am still pretty proud of. Most of the people at the ranges I go to seem to have problems keeping all shots on the target while carefully aiming. That's also part of the training, isn't it ?
No, they don't. And for most people, it's not even the cost of ammo, but the time commitment. When you have a job, a wife, a house, young kid or two, finding even an hour a week to go practicing is a huge commitment. Finding an instructor that will do it on your time schedule is hard and makes training even a biggest commitment. One or two lessons will definitely improve anyone's shooting, but for most people, especially younger people with young families, one or two lessons is all that they can do. Most of time, they get to the range when there's an opportunity, not systematically.
So basically what you are saying - whether you mean it or not - is that most people have no business carrying, and the shall issue states are doing the society a huge disfavor and a big mistake. Because I am convinced that most new gun owners don't go to the range at all or very rarely, and I can say with confidence that more than half of the people that I see at the range don't get the results that I get (not that I am a great shooter by any standard, but I at least can reliably hit the bullseye when taking the time to aim, while at least 2/3 rd of the people shooting in the lanes near are usually happy to get the same results I got with a mag dump while shooting about once every 30 seconds).
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
"Mag dumps" may be fun but are of little value, perhaps negative value, for practice/training. If you want to improve your skill, practice putting one shot exactly where you aim at 10 yards, then 15, 20..... Then 2, 3 and 4 shots, start slow and close increase speed and distance as your accuracy improves. Beyond 3 or 4 founds more is gained practicing mag changes than mag dumps.
Jeb Stuart
member
Lol, " the shall issue states are doing society a huge disfavor and a big mistake"?? Where did that come from? I said way before this post that people have to know the commitment to include cost and time before they get into the sport. I do not buy into the premise that you cannot find the time to train. We all have commitments. You can find the time if you want. That is just a excuse. You can even train with a BB or Pellet pistol, which I do many times a week. I shoot a lot of 22,cal. All help with point and shoot skills. You can practice drawing at home, you can dry fire. You can find the time. Frequent moderate training.
I choose to carry, and for myself, I made a commitment to find the time. If you are going to do something, why not at least try be proficient. and the only way to be proficient is frequent practice.
Every since high school I was a competitive runner and coached runners. I made a commitment back when I was young and made it a habit to train every day. Most of the time twice a day. It just became a habit. I found the time. Rain, snow etc. It did not matter, to not do so was just a excuse.
Yes, IMO if you are going to carry, you owe it to yourself to train in a consistent manner. If you disagree that is fine. And like you said, the vast majority do not. Personally I do not care if they do or not. And I do believe that if you are going to carry, you need to be quick and you should have the ability to draw and dump a mag into center mass the same way Trey did in his pic he posted. And that includes a pocket gun. JMO.
OP
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Wanderling
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I am doing this too, of course. That's 99% of my shooting. But I do believe that if I manage to keep all shots on the target with a mag dump, I am getting somewhere.
Anyway, the bigger point was, most people I encounter at the range can't even do what I do. Of course there are some who are far better than I am, but the majority are not. I am not saying that I am a skilled shooter, just the opposite, but I know what I observe. The majority of people at the ranges are beginners. And most people don't even go to the range except once in a blue moon.
As to the training... I"ve taken a few classes. Mainly, I was taught posture and proper aiming techniques, and how to watch my finger placement. The guy was good, very helpful and all. But, just finding the time to do it on his schedule was super tough. He was mostly available during workdays.
Whenever I see someone getting shooting lessons at a range, I always stop and listen. I can say with confidence that a large number of "instructors" have no business teaching anyone anything. Just because they can (hopefully) hit the target, doesn't mean they can explain to other people how to do it. Training is 20% skill and 80% communication, and most of the guys I see don't communicate well, so it rarely goes anywhere past the posture or other things that can be physically shown.
Jeb Stuart
member
Rapid fire at multiple targets is necessary training. However, Yes it is usually done after you have learned to do the Target Training. Fast shooting to multiple targets hones the eyes, trigger finer and all the Memory muscle skills. The Idea is to be able to get back on target as fast as possible. Even mag dumps to the target like Trey did is a learned skill. I do very little target shooting. (except certain Pellet Pistols I own)
One habit I learned many years ago as a runner was to take a calendar and lay out a plan of training for a Whole year. Then break it down to every 12 weeks, then every month, week day.
I do the same thing for shooting. but a week at a time. I try and stay on plan. Even just 10 minutes a day drawing the firearm is training.
And very Important "SET GOALS" long term and short term. ***JMO and the way I go about training. It may be entirely wrong, but old habits are hard to break.
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