Need CCW help. Draw. Point. Shoot.

[sheriff-g]

I have been through many handguns over the past two years trying to find a good concealed carry gun. I have narrowed my requirements down to this list:

1. Safe to carry with one in the chamber, or for a revolver, under the hammer.
2. No action required to draw and fire. That is, no slide to rack, no manual safety to flip off, etc.
3. Point shoot-able. That is, in a close range, self defense situation, I am not going to be thinking "front sight, front sight". I have seen the police shoot out videos. They are all the same. Draw and pull the trigger as fast as you can, while ducking and backing away.
4. I prefer a caliber that starts with a .4
5. Comfortable to carry… thin. I am a thin guy, and my daily clothes pretty much require either, Inside Waist Band carry, or else a very small profile gun, as they tend to print through my shirts.

I like my Glock 30 (sub-compact .45), and it meets all requirements EXCEPT #5. It prints through my shirts and is too thick for comfortable Inside Pants carry.

I like some of the 5 shot double action revolvers for comfortable, Inside Pants carry, but I have tried the Ruger LCR .38, and a Charter Arms Bulldog .44, and the trigger pulls are so long and hard, that my point shoot grouping is not something to depend my life on. I naturally shot high with both of these guns.

 

[jkd37]

How about a Kahr PM40?

 

[Old Fuff]

There a number of small pistols in .40 caliber that might meet your requirements, but because of reliability issues in large caliber/small platform pistols I still prefer revolvers. You might consider a new .40 revolver Taurus is bringing out that uses the pistol cartridge with moonclips. There is also a version in .44 Special.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=593199

Part of the problem with double-action shooting vs. small snubbies, is that they come with small stocks, intended for pocket carry. If you switch off to a inside-waistband holster you can go to larger stocks, and should.

 

[Cosmoline]

If you could go down to 9x19 or even better .380 your options would increase enormously. There are only a few .40 cal or larger, flat profile deep concealment pistols. And they're not going to be light in the recoil. If you're having troubles with an LCR's easy trigger pull it sounds like wheelguns are not for you. Plus they are round profile.

The best piece I've carried and shot that fits your requirements was a Walther PP in the lowly .32 ACP. It was flat, easy to deep conceal and carry, but heavy and stable enough to deliver fantastic accuracy and shootability. By increasing the weight and decreasing the caliber you also have a firearm that is more stable shot from a point-shooting position or even from the low #3 position in a five-part draw. With a high-octane hand hopper that gets trickier and can even be dangerous.

 

[Sgt_R]

Any Kahr in .40 or .45. They're all single stack, so they'll be a bit thinner than a comparable Glock or other double stack pistol. Try before you buy if possible; some of the smallest ones (such as the PM40) can be a handful.

The Kahr trigger pull is quite long, but it's one of the smoothest DA triggers I've ever shot. It takes some getting used to, but I've been happy with my groups.

R

 

[9mmepiphany]

For both their compact size and controllability, as well as their reputation for reliability I'd highly recommend the Kahr CW45

The trigger is very much like a good DA revolver and very easy to shoot well. I own a CW9 and it replaced my S&W J-frame as an everywhere pistol

 

[JEB]

since you already have a glock and are framiliar with the glock manual of arms, i would suggest you look at a glock 23 or 27. they are a good bit thinner than their .45ACP counterparts which will help with the comfort factor. also you didnt mention what type, if any, IWB holsters you had tried. i would reccomend the crossbreed supertuck for your needs. with a large flat leather backing, it helps eliminate pressure points and it is very adjustable as well as tuckable.

if that is still too thick, then i think the kahr line of pistols would be your best bet. they have longer trigger pulls but they few that i have handled seemed like they came on target very naturaly. with a thin gun like the kahr and a quality holster like the supertuck, concealment would be nearly effortless.

 

[GCBurner]

The single-stack magazine Glock 36 in .45ACP is a bit more concealable than your Glock 30.

 

[glock36]

I second the Glock 36
Good luck
God speed

 

[jiminhobesound]

A 9mm expands your list of thinner guns. I suggest you handle as many guns as possible. The Kahrs seem to be pretty good but get online and read all the reviews. No Taurus pistols were mentioned, is this a reputation issue? The PT145 and 745 are apparently much thinner than the Glock.

 

[Shmackey]

Kahr.

I'm a 1911 guy. I don't like plastic guns. I don't like long DA triggers. And yet, after years of trying this and that, my pocket gun and small IWB gun is a Kahr. If I can't have my CCO on me, I have the Kahr.

 

[malakili]

Here's a third vote for the Glock 36 in .45 ACP. I daily carry mine IWB and it's quite comfortable and concealable. Feels great in my hand and points very naturally. I would recommend adding a Crimson Trace laser to whatever you choose to aid your point shooting. If you've never tried one out, you'll be amazed at how much it helps.

 

[RedAlert]

From your requirements, you seem to be restricted to DAO or SafeTrigger system pistol. To my knowledge all SA pistols use a safety to allow it to be carried with one in the chamber, so that seems to be ruled out.

Personally, I carry a Kahr PM40. Its not a shoot it all day range pistol; however, it is a great concealed carry one.

 

[MICHAEL T]

9mm will work fine with today's good HP BG ain't doing to know if 9 40 or 45 I will join in the Kahr group I bought a 9mm for carry and wife took it. So I kept my Defender .
I found the trigger very nice for that type of pistol.

 

[AKS]

Glock 27

Works everytime and hides well. My time with a Kahr was short, but not trying to start a war over makes. I shoot IDPA with my 27 it shoots so well.

 

[GRIZ22]

There are many guns that meet your criteria 1-4. 5 can be solved with a good holster and getting your shirts a bit larger.

 

[sheriff-g]

Thanks for the suggestions

I am currently looking for a used Glock 36. I also had a chance to handle an over priced Kahr 9mm at a gun show this weekend, and they ARE very slim. I know that 9mm can be an effective round, but all the ones I have shot seem to be very slappy (fast, sharp recoil), as compared to the heavy, slow .45 autos. I have read of .40 cases bulging in Glocks, and effecting reloadability, so I will probably avoid that caliber, at least in the Glock 27.

Time to find some guns and test them out at the range, and carrying concealed all day.

 

[TonyT]

sherrif-g,
I carried a Glock-36 the single stack 45ACP for several years. It was reliable and accurate. You might also consider the Kahr line of slim pistols. I now carry my Kahr PM-9 in a pocket holster as my constant companion.

 

[BCRider]

SheriffG, see if you can try out a 9mm gun loaded with 147gn rounds. The heavier bullet makes the snap of the 9mm more like the push of a .45. So much so that when I was reloading test batches for my 130PF loads to use in IPSC I found that the 147 was so slow out of the barrel that it affected my sights so the impacts were a little higher than my POA. Now, I'm not suggesting that you must reload. But if you found that factory 9mm in 115 and perhaps 124gn loads were too snappy then perhaps 147gn 9mm's may be more in harmony with your recoil expectations that shooting a lot of .45acp has given you.

 

[sheriff-g]

Thanks for the 9mm comment. I found some Ultramax 147 FMJ 9mm on sale for only $14.99 at this link. http://www.cowboyneeds.com/ammo_sale.html According to the info it looks to be 200 fps slower than the other 9mm loads, so maybe you are right. I am going to try it our the next time I get my hands on a 9mm.

 

[bcp280z]

Can't go wrong with a Jframe or KT PF9, although most will agree one of the two, is much higher quality.

They don't start with .4 but with +9 and close range...

And as what I think of point-shoot ability, meaning 7 or less yards you're gonna hit em in the chest, both would be just fine, after all, Most Jframe's don't have the best sights anyways.

 

[Ben86]

Perhaps you should go the single stack .40 route. That is if you must have .40. If you accept 9mm your options open up considerably. Check out the Kahr CW series.

 

[EVIL]

Here's a third vote for the Glock 36 in .45 ACP. I daily carry mine IWB and it's quite comfortable and concealable. Feels great in my hand and points very naturally. I would recommend adding a Crimson Trace laser to whatever you choose to aid your point shooting. If you've never tried one out, you'll be amazed at how much it helps.

+ 4 G36

Point and click, slimmer than G30 and most J-frames with one more round. Definately a great IWB CCW gun, for those that prefer a .45ACP. IMHO it is better for recoil sensitivity than the G27 - which is also great. It also has no sharp edges and is VERY comfortable in a crossbreed holster.

 

[sheriff-g]

UPDATE

It has been four years now, and I find that I mostly carry a Glock 36, single stack .45 acp. So thank you to those who suggested it over the much wider and heavier Glock 30, double stack .45 acp.

I tried the Kahrs (as suggested) but I found that with their longer trigger pull, and short length of pull, my trigger finger was hitting my hand on the other side. Also not enough grip for me to control recoil to my satisfaction.

I have tried many guns since the original post, both at the range and Every Day Carry with various holsters. The snub nose J frames, are nice but tend to have a big grip that prints through my shirt. The same is true of my Taurus 2" .45 Long Colt, 5 shot, double action, revolver. The Micro .380's (Ruger LCP, Ruger LC380, etc.), including the new Glock 42 are a real pleasure to carry. However, I just don't trust their stopping power when I compare them to my .45 at the range.

I also tried a mix of 9mm's, including the Glock 19 (Compact size) which is actually about the same size (the same holster works) as the .45acp Glock 30 and 36 models (listed as SubCompact by Glock.) It is a trade off to have the higher capacity with the 9mm, versus the "THUMP" of the .45. I also tried the newer Glock 30 S which is basically the slim slide of the model 36 on the frame of the model 30 so you get the ten round double stack mag. The 36 is still much more concealable for me.

In the end, I read a quote that made up mind. "The modern 9mm bullet may open up to the size of a .45, but a .45 doesn't get any smaller." To top off that thought, I have found through my extensive, and totally scientific ha ha, testing of shooting JHP cartridges into milk jugs of water, that very few JHP bullets actually expand on impact out of these short barreled guns that are ideal for concealed carry.

 

[strambo]

Thanks for reporting back on your experiences. I really like the .45 ACP chambering as the pressure is low and recoil is a heavy push and pretty controllable even in smaller guns. Sadly, I haven't owned a .45 in quite awhile.

My guns are 9mm, I like 9mm recoil even better and can shoot them very fast and accurately. I only use premium carry ammo (Speer 124g +P GD) and those do consistently perform.

I've never liked .40, good cartridge, but recoil is quite snappy and would be pretty bad (IMO) in the small sub-compacts.

I usually carry my P226, not too hard in a good holster (Comp TAC, MTAC) with a good belt. I can run it really fast.