Need some help selecting a utility shotgun.

[lobo9er]

hate to pile on but settle down and wait. So you may have bought a lemon it has happened to me. If I was a betting man I would bet Mossberg takes care of you. I have had such type lemon firearms a S&W M&P AR and a Taurus p3at and a magpug. ALL took roughly 3 weeks to a month to take care of give or take. These are good problems to have in life.

 

[lobo9er]

Back to the issue, some rough machining somewhere?

 

[sappyg]

Back to the issue, some rough machining somewhere?

I'm thinking yes. I honed the chamber by hand of my problematic 500 last night. Not good but good enough. Payed particular attention to the chamber.... Didn't look good.
Fast forward to today. The gun ran a 25 round box of herters slugs with only one FTE. That is a BIG improvement. Chamber still needs some work so I broke out the drill.
Since I'm using the shells for a buckshot load it's easy to see that the chamber isn't tight and that the previous loads weren't over pressure. half of the previous loads were AA reloads. Half were factory AA. The Herters slugs were high brass and show more pressure than either AA loads.
I'll likely not bother with mossbergs customer service.

 

[pearsonm]

Back to the issue, some rough machining somewhere?

Burs, incorrect tolerances - something is obviously way off and should have never got past Quality Control, if they even have such a department. Had I sent it back after running a broom handle wrapped in sandpaper down the barrel I would have been double screwed. What a freaking nightmare.

 

[USAF_Vet]

That's an incorrect assumption. All you had to do is ask. I'm here for information, not an e-argument.

Who's arguing? We're giving you information, whether or not you like it, or want to hear it, isn't my problem. I personally couldn't care less if that shotgun works for you or not. The first dozen replies in this thread mentioned a problem with ammo. The only one being argumentative about your issue is you.

My buddy had some old assorted name brand ammo he wanted rid of, including brass. It performed Less Bad, for lack of a better term.

So you replaced one set of known bad ammo with another set of unknown ammo and it also performed poorly. Ok, I'll ask. Did you bother shooting it with GOOD AMMO? Not just different ammo, but good ammo, with a long standing positive reputation.

I'm not talking a little notchy, I'm talking it catches and you have to put the butt on your leg to get enough leverage to eject.

Does your mossberg have dual extractors? Mine does. But if the Mossberg tech is having difficulty identifying any issues with your shotgun, again, maybe it's not your shotgun that's the problem. They'll probably make it right, up to and including replacing the gun entirely.

His half-worn autoloader ate that stuff up too. We didn't pass any to the guy with the new 870 since he was running just fine on the mythical Winchester Jammomatic ammo.

Proves nothing. What were the lot numbers of the ammo you were shooting versus the identical ammo that wasn't giving the other guy problems? As ammo is assembled in lots, problematic ammo can be had in lots, which may vary widely in quality. It's luck of the draw, you may have purchased a bad lot, while the other guy had one just fine.

Mossberg's lead technician claims to have been on the case for the past three days. He still can't provide an answer what the problem is, much less the solution.

Which still leads me to believe that the issues lies not with the gun. Sounds like he can't tell you what the problem is because the problem hasn't been replicated. Those in the mechanical field call that operator error. I deal with it every single day. If the ammo is getting stuck in the chamber and you need to mortar it open, it very well could be a chamber problem. But a Mossberg tech would be able to check and identify that as the problem with the first hour, not take three weeks. They could be backlogged and understaffed and haven't gotten to it. The CS person may not know what the service and repair dept. is doing. Who knows? Give it time and have a little patience.

I still think you had a box of out of spec ammo. The older autoloader, being worn, probably has a looser chamber than a new in the box Mossberg built to better tolerances than a budget Remington 870 Express, which don't have the reputation for quality they used to have.

 

[lobo9er]

if they even have such a department.

Are you for real? You got a bad one (possibly) they sell 1000's its bound to happen to someone.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Burs, incorrect tolerances - something is obviously way off and should have never got past Quality Control, if they even have such a department. Had I sent it back after running a broom handle wrapped in sandpaper down the barrel I would have been double screwed. What a freaking nightmare.

Apparently you don't work in manufacturing or have any concept of how quality control actually works. There's this misunderstanding that no company should ever put a bad part onto the market. Give me a break, Mossberg probably checks one barrel out of a hundred for closer tolerance inspection. If a quality issue is found, a production lot will be sent to containment for closer inspection of the entire lot.

They do not inspect every individual barrel that is manufactured. They do not inspect every single cut from the CNC machine. They don't need to, they can't AFFORD to. They can't inspect every single part and every single assembly step and still offer a sub-$250 shotgun. You want that, then pay the five figure entry price for a hand fit and finished gun. In other words, don't buy a Chevy and expect a Cadillac.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I am absolutely positively convicted it's the ammo you are using. I have a Mossberg 500 that has 7,000 plus rounds through it. Works well with almost all brands of ammo except those Wallmart Winchester value packs. I even had the chamber polished and still was a problem. I can use another brand and all goes well, put in some of that Walmart stuff and it has the same problem you do.

By the way, Mossberg also now makes a left handed Mossberg 500 model if you are so inclined.

 

[plumberroy]

Apparently you don't work in manufacturing or have any concept of how quality control actually works. There's this misunderstanding that no company should ever put a bad part onto the market. Give me a break, Mossberg probably checks one barrel out of a hundred for closer tolerance inspection. If a quality issue is found, a production lot will be sent to containment for closer inspection of the entire lot.

They do not inspect every individual barrel that is manufactured. They do not inspect every single cut from the CNC machine. They don't need to, they can't AFFORD to. They can't inspect every single part and every single assembly step and still offer a sub-$250 shotgun. You want that, then pay the five figure entry price for a hand fit and finished gun. In other words, don't buy a Chevy and expect a Cadillac.

Some one who has an Idea how things work
90% of us could not afford a car that they checked every part on.!!

Q.C. pulls a set number of parts and checks them
1. every so many cycles of a machine or a set number of times per shift
2. When tools are changed
3. after a repair to the machine
I was more involved with heat treating drive train parts . Every couple hours a few parts were hit with a tempered file twice a shift parts were magnafluxed and once a shift they were tested with a rockwell machine then cut and looked at with a microscope at any time a fail would stop that machine till the problem was found

 

[pearsonm]

I personally couldn't care less if that shotgun works for you or not.

Yet you work yourself up into enough of a lather and that you make hysterical rapid fire posts at 4:30 am. Oh, the irony.

You and your incorrect assumptions. My dad spent his career in manufacturing and production. My first decent job out of undergrad was manufacturing. Then I realized I could make 3 times the money with a graduate degree in business.

What I've learned is you never put hold up a paying customer because of your own F-up. You get the customer back up and running ASAP then figure out what you did wrong and how to never do it again on your own time.

The Point of the thread, Sport-O, is that I'm looking for a lefty-friendly sporting shotgun, something other than a Mossberg 500 because the one I tried was a miserable POS. The leading candidate is a BPS. I'm going to revisit the Wingmaster and Nova. I haven't entirely ruled out righty autoloaders.

If you've owned any of the guns above and have some valuable input - without the meandering lectures and pointless false assumptions - then I'm all ears. If not then move on to the next thread. If you still have some sort of personal agenda then put it in a PM.

Oh, Merry Christmas.

 

[sappyg]

So with that does anyone with experience have some free advice for me?.

Yes... Yes i do....

You got what you asked for. The cheapest gun you could find wouldn't fire the cheapest ammo you could find.

You came on this forum and asked a lot of knowledgable people for advise that was freely given. You didn't like the answer you got and proceeded to get defensive, insult others, and generally acted like a child. I wonder if your mother even allows you to stay up this late?

Get ready for more free advise.... Use that MBA money you're making now and man up. Get yourself a browning or Beretta SxS or over/ under of your learned choice and be done with it. It doesn't get any more ambi than that. While you're at it pony up s'more of that MBA salary for some better ammo. Maybe join a club, learn how to shoot and socialize with your peers.

Oh... Merry Christmas

 

[USAF_Vet]

Well, I'm a third shift guy, so 4:30 in the morning is actually quite typical of my online posting behavior. Nice assumption anyway.

Gee, with a business degree I can make over 270,000 a year instead of the mere 80,000+ I made this year? Highly unlikely. I make more as a skilled tradesman than my boss, and his boss. But not for nothing, I have two degrees, too bad I'm only using the simple associates I got from the Air Force.
Too bad that with all your education, and your dad's experience, you still don't grasp basic mass production concepts. The fact that you still need to blame Mossberg and not even consider ammo or user error (the latter does seem unlikely) is enlightening in and of itself.

If you want a high quality shotgun that will met your every need, you're not going to find it in a mass produced utility shotgun. You'll want to find a hand fit and finished, fit to you by a professional for comb, drop, length of pull, etc.
You'll be disappointed to know, that even those high quality guns have problems with that bargain ammo that you refuse to acknowledge might be your initial problem.

But regardless, you want free advice on a different shotgun.

I'd recommend for a left friendly, quality utility shotgun, an older Remington 870 Wingmaster, left hand variant.

Or do what many other southpaw shooters have done, and install a left hand safety on a right handed gun.

Buy a quality gun, with quality ammo, join a quality club with a quality trainer to learn how to shoot.

 

[plumberroy]

Older 870's (some where pre 1980 ) safety's can be reversed, you can get after market left safety's or with a different side plate for the trigger group you can change your trigger group to a true lefty trigger group and use the factory safety in a right handed gun . I have one lefty 870 and one right handed gun with a lefty trigger group .The problem with a left handed 870 right now only barrel you can get from the factory is 28 in vent ribbed rem choked barrel .
My lefty 870 wears a 18.25 V.R. remchoke barrel
Roy

 

[Ash]

"Buy a quality gun, with quality ammo, join a quality club with a quality trainer to learn how to shoot."

My only disagreement is the inference that the Mossberg 500 is not a quality gun. I have owned Valmet, Fabarm, Remington, and Mossberg shotguns. The former two were over unders. When I chose to simplify, the Mossberg remained. It takes ducks and geese as well as any other shotgun I have owned. I have an old Savage 720 that gets used for rabbits and armadillos, but the Mossberg has been a superb shotgun.

 

[pearsonm]

^ Hey, thanks for the post, plumberroy. I found a YouTube on how to change the safety on an 870. Looks like no big deal. I like how it's behind the trigger - my old M37 is the same way. I also like how the slide release is on the left - it's on the right, in front of the trigger and out of reach on my M37.

You mentioned two other things - older guns and true lefty guns. I'm seeing things about manufacturers skipping steps that they didn't used to like honing and polishing. I looked a little at used guns and thought their prices were out of whack but there are a lot of dealers and gunsmiths in my area. I may look a little harder.

About the true lefty thing. I've read that some lefties complain about shells flying across their faces. For whatever reason I've never noticed it. My big gripe is having to switch hands to operate the slide release. I'm going to take another look at autoloaders - I should be able to rotate the gun 90 degrees counterclockwise with my right and rack with my left, if not just reach over the receiver.

 

[Doc7]

Please keep it high road folks

 

[plumberroy]

^ Hey, thanks for the post, plumberroy. I found a YouTube on how to change the safety on an 870. Looks like no big deal. I like how it's behind the trigger - my old M37 is the same way. I also like how the slide release is on the left - it's on the right, in front of the trigger and out of reach on my M37.

You mentioned two other things - older guns and true lefty guns. I'm seeing things about manufacturers skipping steps that they didn't used to like honing and polishing. I looked a little at used guns and thought their prices were out of whack but there are a lot of dealers and gunsmiths in my area. I may look a little harder.

About the true lefty thing. I've read that some lefties complain about shells flying across their faces. For whatever reason I've never noticed it. My big gripe is having to switch hands to operate the slide release. I'm going to take another look at autoloaders - I should be able to rotate the gun 90 degrees counterclockwise with my right and rack with my left, if not just reach over the receiver.

Some where in the 70's the 870 was changed so you needed a different safety to make lefty you used to be able to just turn the safety around . Now you can buy a safety that is drop in or like my right handed left safety gun has a different left side plate in the trigger group this takes all the parts on a right handed gun to the left side and allows any after market safety . My gun has a Wilson combat big headed safety . I actually like my right hand left safety gun better . I can single load rounds with my right hand while not moving the gun from my shoulder . I never had a problem with hulls as the don't eject up .
I think J.D McGuire (member here ) could rebuild an 870 trigger group for you with out having to send him the whole gun He built my gun.
A true lefty 870 throws hulls left side no way to throw it across you face if shooting from the left side

I have 2 870's
1st one is a stock left handed 870 except I had the barrel shortened to 18.25 in and the bead and remchokes re-installed
2nd I had built by Mr McGuire of AI&P tactical
Started as his basic 1 model added/changed barrel 18.5 mod choke with tritnium bead, lefty trigger group , Wilson combat big headed safety and mine has a wilson 2 shot extension with the finish upgrades and other upgrades he does to all his shotguns I can't imagine a better utility shotgun
Roy

 

[PabloJ]

"Buy a quality gun, with quality ammo, join a quality club with a quality trainer to learn how to shoot."

My only disagreement is the inference that the Mossberg 500 is not a quality gun. I have owned Valmet, Fabarm, Remington, and Mossberg shotguns. The former two were over unders. When I chose to simplify, the Mossberg remained. It takes ducks and geese as well as any other shotgun I have owned. I have an old Savage 720 that gets used for rabbits and armadillos, but the Mossberg has been a superb shotgun.

Mossberg pump is embodiment of inexpensive utility pump gun, therefore, it should function with Walmart sold promo ammo. If it does not function with such ammo what is it good for. If you want quality Mossberg pump look for used Pederson 4500.

 

[Ash]

What is it good for? Hmmmm......

Ducks, geese, rabbits, deer, turkey, rabid raccoons, bad people wanting to take my things, breaking clays for fun, squirrels...

What's it good for? Putting meat on a table and a smile on the face. I shoot a Mossberg not because that is all I can afford - I have firearms that are worth more than $2,500 in the safe right now. I have owned arms worth 5 grand. I shoot it because it does such a great job bringing a smile to my face.

So, a basic-model car is good for nothing if it doesn't run great on crap gas, right?

Nah, just a piece of junk worth nothing more than tossing in the garbage - all Mossbergs should be condemned because one fellow may or may not have problem with one shotgun with crap ammo.

 

[oneounceload]

I'm going to take another look at autoloaders - I should be able to rotate the gun 90 degrees counterclockwise with my right and rack with my left, if not just reach over the receiver.

If you are LH, hold the gun at the wrist with your left hand, rotate it 90 degrees c.c., drop round in chamber, close bolt and insert second round all with your right hand. Very effective and easy to do.

And do not buy Winchester Universal ammo - it is the worst of all of the cheap promo ammo.

 

[Black Knight]

"One spent round got wedged so tight I had to tap it out with a cleaning rod."


This statement makes me believe that the ammo is the problem. I would like to suggest that you try different ammo before sending it anywhere. As a Mossberg Armorer there should be no problem getting Mossberg to take care of it if the ammo is not the issue. You just need to contact Mossberg directly instead of talking with the store and having them speak for you. Dick's is in the business to sell, not to repair or be a go between for the customer. As far as they are concerned their involvement ends when you first walk out the door. BTW I am a police officer and my police force uses the Mossberg 500 and the only problems we have had are the bead sights breaking off and swivel stud screws stripping.

 

[pearsonm]

Awesome info, plumberroy! Thanks again. I like the versatility of the 870 line, especially their barrel combo deals - I'd love to try blasting some feral hogs. I just want to make sure I'm getting one that works as advertised.

Thank you for the suggestion on the Pederson 4500, PabloJ. I'll add it to the list to research. Got a buddy telling me to look at H&R's, too.

 

[Ash]

I am a Pedersen shooter, have a Grade II 3000 in the safe right now and almost pulled the trigger on a Beretta Pedersen 1000 Grade II just this week. The 4500 is very pretty with superb wood and engraving on the receiver.

But what is quality? If the Pedersen 4500 is a quality shotgun, but that is not because of the walnut and polish. The 500 is a quality shotgun, as is the Western Field 550, or Revelation 310.

A Remington 870 is good, too, but no better than a 500. I shot both, the first decade of my duck/goose hunting was spent with an 870. It performed no better than the 500 that replaced it. That isn't to say the 870 was bad - it bagged my limit on more than one occasion. It rusted regularly and I had to keep the matte receiver oiled, but otherwise it was a good gun. My sister now owns it. The Mossy doesn't rust so quickly which is one of the reasons I gravitated towards it.

The truth is, the OP is on a mission to find something that will eat the cheap stuff he buys. Good luck and may you find what you like. It will likely be a series of expensive trials and errors until you decide good ammo is what you should get.

Guess we should blame all the .22lr's that don't shoot Remington Golden Bullet or Thunderbolts very well while we are at it, right? Gotta be a bad rifle if it doesn't handle Thunderbolt, Golden Bullet, Wildcat, and the like. Gotta be.

 

[clang]

There is nothing wrong with wanting a gun that shoots cheap ammo reliably, especially if you don't reload. The cheap shells may not pattern as well or consistently as the premium stuff, but who cares if you are busting clay birds for practice or fun.

The Mossberg and Remington pumps are known to be some of the most reliable pump guns out there, but they still require a series of mechanical actions to cycle a shell. Out of spec ammo can cause cycling problems and cheap ammo is more likely to be out of spec then the expensive stuff.

That doesn't mean that your gun does not have a problem. If you see issues with multiple types of ammo, send it to Mossberg and let them address the issue. It sucks to have to do with a new gun, but it happens some times. Mossberg will make it right.

I'm a lefty too, and started with an 870 Express and Mossberg 500. Both were sold soon after I purchased my 1st double. Lefty ffriendly and almost impossible to jam. Easy ammo removal when crossing obstacles while hunting too. My favorites are Beretta O/Uers, but there are plenty of other good guns to choose from. You can even go inexpensive with a Savage/Stevens 311 SxS or something similar. I just bought a 16 gauge Western Field branded one for $200.

 

[mnrivrat]

Cheap walmart 100 packs of ammo is notorious for not ejecting

Whatever you decide is your call but heed the input from those that are telling you that the majority of your issue with that 500 is not the gun - it is the ammo.

I've had some guns that I polished the chamber to near a mirror and still had cheap ammo stick in the chamber. That ammo does not have all brass heads and does not properly contract upon firing.

To use that ammo the chamber has to be just right in size and polish.

That said, there are times when the Mossberg 500 chambers are a bit rougher than they shouyld be and could stand a bit of polishing.