New bullet: "hypercav"

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The problem, well at least one of them, seems to be that some folks jumped in and posted, having not followed the initial thread from its inception. The technology will be used on existing bullets. It's just a matter if the claims indeed live up to what “They”, has indicated. That's the reason he is proceeding with the tests. Phase two as it were. He isn’t changing the round, just the bullet, a modification of bullet tip, the by drilling these three holes in it. That's basically it.
If the holes indeed allow the gasses to escape on impact faster than they would normally, then the round should expand better and more consistently. It's so simple that it may indeed work, that's what the future tests will show. All the talk about clogging etc., really isn’t relative, once the bullet hits the target, the gasses accumulated in the “hollow point” need to exit the hollow point so it can mushroom to its maximum potential. “that’s the way it was explained to me”. So if these holes allow the gas to exit upon striking the target, then it should allow the hollow point to mushroom faster causing more damage and less failure to expand.” If I understand this correctly”, all of the posts, “including mine” that questioned trajectory wobble etc. are not relevant since nothing happens until the bullet hits something and starts to release gas and expand.
Trying to get anything from the idea stage to market, in these economic times is difficult at best. Perhaps a little less negativity and a little more support, may be a better way to start the New Year. Many of us are critical to a fault. There have been countless threads that went on for weeks that had yes or no answers, so stepping on someone who is trying to come up with a product that may benefit us all, is not constructive. If he is proven wrong we will all know about it soon enough. But if he really has something here, it could save a life.
 
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Eddism,
Obviously, you're a thinker. I'll respond in-line:

Could you give us some simple emperical evidence of any sort. Perhaps a video link of your thing in action. Your bullet into a block of wood would be a start.

*We've not shot any video to date. Didn't think it would be that useful for this application given that ANY bullet hitting something (gel-block, walls, glass, etc.) looks dramatic.

Hypercav isn't about "drama", it's about terminal performance.

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Heres a way to quantify bullet energy if you under the restraints of a budget. You can always use a ballastic pendulum as a kind of "transformer", to exchange the high speed of a light object (the bullet) for the low-and thus more easily measurable-speed of a massive object (the block) if a chronograph isn't available to determine velocity.

The internal energy of the bullet remains as the mechanical energy of the swinging pendulum. Now you can determine the bullet energy because the swinging pendulum is equal to its potential energy when the block is at the top of its swing. Thus, the percent of the original kinetic energy of the bullet is transferred to mechanical energy of the pendulum. The rest is transferred to thermal energy of the block and bullet, or goes into the breaking of wood fibers as the bullet bores into the block.

*I kind of addressed your point/question with the other poster. Pls see above.

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From here you need to begin using mechanics of materials. Which material resists supersonic shock waves best without falling apart before it gets to its destination. Then once arriving at its destination, it must deform elastically without falling to pieces to creat maximum hydrostatic shock. There are public librarys all over this great country to gather this necessary information.

*That would be an interesting project, but I've not given much thought to this entity, and have limited knowledge in this area. As such, I don't have enough information and background to feel I'd have much to contribute at this time. Besides, the devlopment process of Hypercav is far from complete, and it's best I keep my eye on the ball, and concentrate my efforts to that end.

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In my opinion, this science is a settled matter. You ought to put your talent and expenses towards a new way of delivering a punch. I've heard that particle projection cannon science is a new an evolving field. Perhaps your talent along with all of THR input will guide you to success.

*The science is indeed a "settled" matter. At least the physics are anyway...
This realization is what brought validity to this project in the first place; the confirmation that I was not "invading" any of the basic laws of physics involved in this specific application.
Fundementally, everyone knows you can't change the laws of physics. To do so is an excercise in futility. However, you can "adjust' the order of those laws, and enterprise on those "known" factors.
In this case, by design, a compressible gas, in a static state, is trapped in an enclosed space once the bullet makes contact with a target. From there, tissue trys to enter the cavity by force of action. With the air having no means to escape, the tissue must compress the air to a critical point, where that air becomes negligable in the exchange, and thus allows the cavity to be pressurized to the point of critical mass, and bullet expansion begins.

Porting that cavity removes that air compression issue, removes the energy-loss factor while trying to overcome that process, and make the exchange/environment more efficient. Therefore, by those very laws, validates this modification at the theoretical level alone.

Next, prototyping and test is employed to see if we missed anything, and to account for any "chaos" factors within the "order". (can't have one, without the other)

From there, it's a straight-forward matter of finding the right configuration (i.e. port diameter, port count, port shape, etc.) that is most efficient to accomplish our intended goal. "Calibration", as it were...

**Are you referring to the 'rail gun' technology? I agree there's a huge emerging market there, but again, I've not spent much time there mentally, and don't have the resources or expertise to contribute to that entity. I think it'll be some time before we see RG's go portable.

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Happy New Year - Cheers

*Happy New Year to you too!
"Hacer bien no questa nada, E valy mucho"-Simone Bolivar
 
Derk...

It's also unusual that someone with four posts would assume mod duties.

Cut They1 some slack. He's trying something new and if the Mods had a problem with it, I'm sure that they would speak up.

Biker
 
Your theory is "sheesh". You must have a PHD of Natural Physics to try this one. OK. This is way above my head. And the math has got to be daunting.
Fluids traveling at the or above the speed of sound become compressible and turn to gas. And, what I gather is you are experimenting on what is the "Perfect Gas". Good Luck with that Internal Energy question.
Argon Gas might be one you can try. It's Noble and readily available. Have you determined what its schroud will probably be made of? Its been a while since I worked on nasty math problems. And this problem is definitely 3rd order or meaner. You have my enthalpy and entrophy. I'm now officially interested.

ed-dro "Over & Out"
 
Your theory is "sheesh". You must have a PHD of Natural Physics to try this one. OK. This is way above my head. And the math has got to be daunting.
Fluids traveling at the or above the speed of sound become compressible and turn to gas. And, what I gather is you are experimenting on what is the "Perfect Gas". Good Luck with that Internal Energy question.
Argon Gas might be one you can try. It's Noble and readily available. Have you determined what its schroud will probably be made of? Its been a while since I worked on nasty math problems. And this problem is definitely 3rd order or meaner. You have my enthalpy and entrophy. I'm now officially interested.

ed-dro "Over & Out"
No PhD here...just an engineering, aviation, fluid dynamics background, and a 'unique' way of seeing things.
The math is more difficult for me than most folks, so I have to verify my work with people far more qualified than I.

Interesting you refer to the "gas formation" of hyper velocity tissues...we think that was why we're seeing deeper penetration with HC rounds than conventional counterparts.
I'm holding off on adjusting the graph on the website until we confirm this beyond doubt, but we saw that in our initial tests, and Brassfetcher saw that (1~2" deeper wound channel) with the one round he fired so far. But as Brassfetcher said very well; "one shot=0". So, several more tests shots will tell the story.

That's where the gas factor came in; My original theory was if we made a bullet expand sooner after impact, induced static drag would reduce total depth by at least some amount. But since that's does'nt seem to be the case, we have to figure out 'why'. Right now we think the shock wave and vaporization of tissue is actually reducing initial drag, giving more overall penetration and a deeper wound channel. A pleasant surprise? Yes. But still lots of work yet to confirm.

I must be dense, but I don't know how I could manipulate Argon into either testing or simulation.

Input?
 
here ya go :)
trailer-park-taj-mahal.jpg
 
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Ok folks, here's the deal; I've had these photos for some time now, test performed early on in the project's development.

I've not shared them to date for several reasons. The primary reason is I didn't think this was a valid test, considering the test medium proved to exceed the 'standards' of ballistic gel criteria. We used a medium from "Bullet Test Tube". The idea being it was reusable. (Thinking economy here)

Turns out though, that after measuring later, the BTT medium is almost TWICE the density of standadrized ballistic gel.
So, after learning this, we canceled any further tests as this seemed to be a "bad idea".
I tried to contact BTT, but no response to email, and their phone appears to be disconnected. (I think I know why)

The next reason, is the quality of the photos are severely lacking.

All things being equal, my goal has been to present clean, independent scientifically-based test result information with solid data, and quality photos.
While we're working on that as you read this, please keep in mind the unscientific nature of the pics here:

HCBTTSHOT1JPG.jpg

HCBTTSHOT2JPG.jpg

HCBTTSHOT3JPG.jpg

HCBTTSHOT4JPG.jpg
**NOTE: Notice the three Port "blast marks" as the bullet makes contact with the target.**

HCBTTSHOT5JPG.jpg

HCBTTSHOT6JPG.jpg

HCBTTSHOT7JPG.jpg

HCBTTSHOT8JPG.jpg

HCBTTSHOT9JPG.jpg

To help put things into prespective, the following is a photo from BTTs' website, showing the same medium, but with a RIFLE round:
BTT4.jpg
 
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I've been following this thread for a while now.

They, I hope you can make a great product, and make money off it.

That being said, I'm a "prove it" kind of guy, and am anxious to see what comes of this.


Reread previous post.
 
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They1
Good on you for letting us in on your efforts. That's why I love the High Road. Don't forget, when all is said and done, you have to come back to this thread find the naysayers and:neener::neener::neener:
Good luck in your project:D
 
I've stayed out of this, but I grew up with scientists in the family and I now run multiple R&D teams as part of my profession.

I'd like to see verifiable testing done in calibrated ballistic gelatin. Multiple bullets and control rounds placed side-by-side after the testing. Clear photographs would seem like a simple thing to arrange. Any other medium is a waste of time and effort.
 
'yawn'

HCBTTSHOT8JPG.jpg

looks barely average for jhp expansion. some of the petals aren't even expanded to their full potential. there are already plenty of good choices on the market that will expand much better than this:


Bullets-tested-2.jpg
 
Some people on this thread became invested in an idea, and appear to have no interest in an actual discussion. Ah well, ignorance will out as they say.

If this idea should prove to enhance penetration while encouraging expansion, that would be a good thing. I await rigorous testing through a variety of barriers and media. The truth will come out. And some people will feel foolish, one way or the other.

Oh, and I may have missed it, but did anyone post the reports that show %80 of HP's fail to expand in actual shootings?
 
So what happens if lint or a tiny grain of dirt gets into the holes?

What happens if lint or a tiny grain of dirt gets into just one of the holes?
 
Many posts are now just rehashing things we all mentioned before, and were answered, Like the percent of hp's that don't expand, "They" has explained how he himself was shot with one such bullet, and the dirt thing, been covered guys, let's stay on point. We will see how this one goes.
 
Many posts are now just rehashing things we all mentioned before, and were answered, Like the percent of hp's that don't expand, "They" has explained how he himself was shot with one such bullet, and the dirt thing, been covered guys, let's stay on point. We will see how this one goes.

I reread the thread and did not see this answered, could you please point it out to me?
 
Turns out though, that after measuring later, the BTT medium is almost TWICE the density of standadrized ballistic gel.
So, after learning this, we canceled any further tests as this seemed to be a "bad idea".

Given the large number of large bubbles in the testing media, I don't know how you could assess the density accurately. The test media is inconsistent.

Full Metal Jacket's "yawn" comment and following assessment on the expanded petals seems to be on the money.
 
With air flowing through those holes, I'm wondering if they can make the bullet whistle Dixie in flight?

Now I would buy musical bullets!
 
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