New Caliber - 300 AAC Blackout

[rsilvers]

"Smith & Wesson announced a new M&P15 rifle chambered in 300 Whisper. The S&W rifle will also chamber the popular new 300 BLACKOUT cartridge."

I thought the 300 Whisper cartridge could be fired in the 300BLK chamber. Looks like S&W is saying the 300BLK can be fired in the 300 Whisper chamber. Can they be swapped both ways? I thought the 300 BLK has slightly larger (or different) external dimensions

They are saying you can shoot 300 BLK in *their* chamber. This is not a general statement about shooting 300 BLK ammo in Whisper(R) chambers. There are at least two, maybe three Whisper chamber drawings.

If they created a new Whisper chamber, then there may be four Whisper drawings now.

It is best to use a 300 AAC BLACKOUT chamber - the SAAMI standard, if you want ensure compatibility with 300 BLK ammo.

 

[mastiffhound]

Just got the email from Smith, looks like it might be same old stuff. Shoots both calibers. I don't think that Smith could make the claim if it isn't true. They have done some apparent testing, and because of lawyers and lawsuits their chamber can shoot both. If it wasn't safe the amount of money for lawsuits for injury's would put them out of business. Now the accuracy might not be as good out of Smith's chamber, or like someone else said there is not much of a difference in the chambering. Kind of like you can shoot .223 rem out of a 5.56 nato chamber but not vice versa. I really would like to have an upper from Smith but I think I will wait until it is more mainstream and ammo prices come down a little more. $10 to $25 for a box of 20 is too much as I don't reload. Now get it down to $5 to $7 a box and I'm on board. Untill then I will keep my 7.62x51 and 7.62x39.

 

[rsilvers]

Now get it down to $5 to $7 a box and I'm on board. Untill then I will keep my 7.62x51 and 7.62x39.

300 BLK is already cheaper than brass cased 7.62x39 or 7.62x51mm, just not the steel cased ammo.

 

[Googleplex]

This round looks neat. Granted, it seems to be lacking in the effective range department, but it would probably make an AR one hoss of a brush/truck gun. I see it catches a lot of flack for its similarity to .300 Whisper, but if it becomes more common than .300 Whisper (wich won't be too hard to do, from what I've seen) then it will definately be added to my longterm wishlist. Of course, it will have to stick around. The 6.8 hasn't been the commercial success it was supposedly gonna be, so this one is going have to watched.

 

[mastiffhound]

I'm still getting brass cased yugo 7.62x39 for $4 for a box of 15. I was also getting 7.62x51 for $80 for 250 when it was on sale a few years ago and still have around 2700 rounds left. I don't shoot alot of this though. I know both are mil-surp but that is fine with me. Also steel is fine for an ak copy. Still the best I could find is $10 for the subsonic(not interested) and $17 for the full power(more my taste). If it really gets bad I can get 30-30 for $15 or less for my marlin. Just need to see the price come down a bit.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I see it catches a lot of flack for its similarity to .300 Whisper, but if it becomes more common than .300 Whisper (wich won't be too hard to do, from what I've seen)

For all practical purposes 300 Blackout is a SAAMI-spec, standardized and slightly improved 300 Whisper, not a different cartridge.

Mastiff, Gunn Ammo 130gr supersonics at AIM Surplus are around $14/20 right now. The UMC ammo that is coming out "soon" (maybe late December?) is supposed to have a $12.95 MSRP and presumably a lower typical price. I also have a pile of .308 NATO surplus that I paid only about $9/20 for, but surplus vs. new commercial ammo isn't a really fair comparison, and US-made new commercial 7.62x39 does run around $15/20 from what I've seen.

IMHO, the 300 Blackout is not a do-all single cartridge, but rather a cartridge that makes good sense for a number of common uses and works well with the AR15 system. It's never going to replace bigger cartridges for longer range and/or larger game hunting, but it may be a decent 100+ yard whitetail deer cartridge, a short range hog option, and a medium range coyote option. It also seems like a good defensive option for typical defensive ranges (mostly under 25 yards).

 

[rsilvers]

This round looks neat. Granted, it seems to be lacking in the effective range department, but it would probably make an AR one hoss of a brush/truck gun. I see it catches a lot of flack for its similarity to .300 Whisper, but if it becomes more common than .300 Whisper (wich won't be too hard to do, from what I've seen) then it will definately be added to my longterm wishlist. Of course, it will have to stick around. The 6.8 hasn't been the commercial success it was supposedly gonna be, so this one is going have to watched.

Google "300 AAC Blackout"

then google "300 Whisper"

There are about 7 times as many results for 300 BLK.

In terms of actual ammo or guns, it is already probably 50 or more times as popular.

Effective range by M4 standards is about 460 meters.

 

[lizziedog1]

Wow!

Now the line of 30 caliber cartridges is complete.

 

[68wj]

Google "300 AAC Blackout"

then google "300 Whisper"

There are about 7 times as many results for 300 BLK.

In terms of actual ammo or guns, it is already probably 50 or more times as popular.

Effective range by M4 standards is about 460 meters.

Yes, SSK did a very poor job of internet marketing.

 

[rsilvers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WtNyeU4ZXY

 

[Collector0311]

Haha man I love that little weapon! Thanks for the link. When can I have one?!

 

[Big Bad Bob]

Rsilvers, love the honey badger vid.

Got a question since you are an R&D guy. Do you think its possible to build a Delisle Clone for the .300 AAC?

 

[Z-Michigan]

Finished putting together my 300 Blackout upper last night and had a chance to test-fire it this morning. Wonderful. Definitely has more of a kick than .223, and worked flawlessly (130gr SOST from Gunn, using a Pmag and a Troy CBIR mag). This will be the #2 AR-15 caliber within a couple years, I predict. It's the only alternative caliber that works in standard mags AND has ammunition availability.

(6x45mm could also be great if there is ever the Black Hills ammo that was announced roughly a year ago.)

 

[cougar1717]

Just got my CDNN catalog in the mail and saw that it has some 300 BLK items.

 

[Evil Monkey]

What use is the 220gr subsonic round other than to assassinate people quietly under 200yards?

Because it's no different than the russian 9x39mm rifles, and we know what they're for. And if it isn't being used in that role, then it's a glorified SMG. One trajectory table I saw for the 220gr 300blackout stated around a 35 inch drop at 250yards. That ain't no rifle......

 

[Z-Michigan]

The subsonic options are for anything you want to do quietly. It could be pest control, ordinary hunting, target shooting (maybe with new or noise-averse shooters), etc. etc. Your question is like asking "what good is a high-power .300 Magnum with 1200 yards range, other than to assassinate people from far away?"

Anyway, I got mine for supersonic use. Capabilities of an AKM with ergonomics and weight of an AR.

 

[Evil Monkey]

pest control with a cartridge that costs $1 a round......

supersonic versions, I can't argue against that. 125gr 300blackout makes sense from an AR rifle instead of 7.62x39mm.

 

[kfgk14]

When prices get below $.50/round, it'll take off. Remington needs to get with it on the UMC load. I'll buy an upper and a reloading setup for .300 AAC if they do, and definitely get one of those sweet AAC cans.
Of course, a photo from August 24, 2011 shows a suppressed lever gun on the AAC blog. Maybe that should be my next suppressed project?

 

[jmstevens2]

What use is the 220gr subsonic round other than to assassinate people quietly under 200yards?

Any kind of work in a confined space, such as clearing a building. It would be nice to be able to hear your kid yell "look out behind you" after the first shot. In most houses your ears will be ringing at that point.
For the military, and police it is simply a hearing loss issue. Reduce the noise, reduce the loss of hearing.

 

[alemonkey]

Originally Posted by Evil Monkey
What use is the 220gr subsonic round other than to assassinate people quietly under 200yards?

<rant>
I hate to sound like a jerk, but that is the exact same kind of logic the anti-gun group uses. What use is a rifle with a flash hider or a bayonet lug? Or one that holds more than 5 rounds?

For that matter, what use is a car that goes over 65 mph? You don't "need" one of those either. We don't have to justify the need, we're free citizens. Once we give in to the "need" argument it's a short walk toward banning your scoped "sniper" hunting rifle and your pump action shotgun.
</rant>

There is now a company (I can't remember the name) that's making heavy .308 bullets that will expand at subsonic velocities. That would make an excellent short range hunting round. The stand I usually hunt from has a max shot of less than 100 yards. I would love to shoot a subsonic suppressed round from there. I've ordered a Blackout barrel and need to get a stamp for a suppressor now.

 

[Z-Michigan]

alemonkey: it's Outlaw State bullets

http://www.outlawstatebullets.com/2.html

 

[rsilvers]

http://www.pnwarms.com/Category.aspx?CategoryId=60&CategoryName=300+BLK

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=78231

 

[rsilvers]

$12.50 a box (made from reformed brass):

http://www.southwestammunition.com/category_s/87.htm

 

[rsilvers]

When prices get below $.50/round, it'll take off. Remington needs to get with it on the UMC load. I'll buy an upper and a reloading setup for .300 AAC if they do, and definitely get one of those sweet AAC cans.
Of course, a photo from August 24, 2011 shows a suppressed lever gun on the AAC blog. Maybe that should be my next suppressed project?

Sub 40 cents a round ammo for FET-exempt govt users is already here. Reformed brass ammo for retail customers at less than 50 cents a round is a sure thing in 2012.

110 - 125 grain bullets will always cost more than 55-62 grain bullets. There is more stuff in them. This is especially true that the 300 BLK bullets are extra long to help lower drag and make them fit the magazines - so they are about as long as 150 grain 308 Win bullets - which means more expensive copper. 300 BLK has more punch than 5.56mm due to this, but it is the cheapest way to get more punch over 5.56mm. It will never be as cheap, but it will be cheap enough.

 

[Evil Monkey]

I hate to sound like a jerk, but that is the exact same kind of logic the anti-gun group uses

I don't mean to sound like that but there are much cheaper options for the average citizen if you want a low report home defense weapon.