New thinking about AR-15

[Squeaky Wheel]

I've never owned an AR and never had any real interest in owning one. I've never really been into the tacti-cool crowd. My biggest want/need for most of my firearms, except self-defense handguns, is target shooting. I like recreational target shooting at paper targets. I enjoy slow fire target shooting for relaxation and stress-relief.

Lately, I'm thinking of the possibility of adding an AR to my collection once the current panic settles down. My reasons are: good ergonomics of the AR, relatively inexpensive ammo once things get back to 'normal', and exercise of my right to own a military-style 'assault' weapon.

Anyone else get an AR for these reasons?

Probably my biggest objection is having my brass flung all over and requiring me to chase it down. I have begun reloading and would intend to reload 223 were I to acquire an AR.

 

[HankR]

I'm definitely not tacti-cool (or any kind of cool, actually). I bought an AR back in '98 for the reasons you stated, but never came to be a fan of the platform. I'd much rather shoot my M1 in a CMP match than my AR (even though I score higher w/ the AR and it (used to) cost less to shoot.)

After the "AW" ban expired I put a collapsible stock on it, and with a .22 lr kit it is the go-to gun for training kids and women new to our sport. I bet I've put 100 .22 lr rounds through it for every .223 since that time. My son loves the tacti-cool aspects (plain jane, 20 inch barrel, telescoping stock, but much cooler than his break-open single shot).

A friend decided that he really wanted an AR about a week after Newton. I promised him I'd sell him mine for what they were going for at that time any time through April 15th, but encouraged him to wait and think on it a bit. Meanwhile I traded an off-brand 1911 (and some ammo) for a used S&W MP15-22 (I think that's what it's called, the plastic .22 ARish offering by S&W).

I was (and still am) pretty sure that my friend can get a better deal ( and I'd extend it for him, now that it's getting close) and that he didn't need to panic. I told him I'd feel guilty selling it to him that week, but if he cooled down and still wanted it I wasn't going to sell it to anybody else in the meantime. If he buys it, I won't miss it too much. If I keep it we'll probably enjoy it. YMMV

 

[Pilot]

They are just good, accurate, and fun rifles to shoot. I like the way they fit me, and I like the ergonomics. They are easily customized to further fit you, and your requirements.

 

[MaterDei]

My biggest want/need for most of my firearms, except self-defense handguns, is target shooting.

Lately, I'm thinking of the possibility of adding an AR to my collection once the current panic settles down. My reasons are: good ergonomics of the AR, relatively inexpensive ammo once things get back to 'normal', and exercise of my right to own a military-style 'assault' weapon.

You really should add 'target shooting' to your reasons for buying an AR. They really are quite accurate firearms. While you're at it you should also add self-defense. In my opinion the AR in most home defense situations is the ideal firearm, certainly better than any handgun and I would argue better than shotgun as well.

 

[Jitterbug]

The two that I have with 16" stainless barrels are the most accurate rifles I've ever owned a RR and a BCM.

Hand loading makes them shine and they are a really fun rifle to shoot especially for the wife due to the very light recoil...I can live with the light recoil too.

Incredibly reliable...never a hiccup so far in about 10,000 rounds.

We use them for target shooting, hunting and of course if ever need be personal defense.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Anyone else get an AR for these reasons?

Not yet, but its in the plans. Some of the cheaper brands are already popping up on Gunbroker for $800-$900. I don't know much about them though.

 

[MCgunner]

Lately, I'm thinking of the possibility of adding an AR to my collection once the current panic settles down. My reasons are: good ergonomics of the AR,

I cannot stand the ergos of the EBR. You can't just grab it around the receiver ready to swing to the shoulder when you're walking. As a lefty, all the right hand ARs are screwball, nothing where it should be, and I hate pistol grips on long guns. Prone or over a gun rest in a deer stand, the friggin' worthless bazillion round magazine sticks out in the way. For the field, give me a straight gripped lever action rifle any day over any AR, perfect field practical ergos are the Winchester repeating rifles of the late 19th century. They've never been improved. Scope it, and I'll take a bolt gun any day over an AR. Add to that I'm a hunter and there are no prairie dogs in this part of the state, so .223 is of little use to me. And, YES, it's the .223 Remington to a hunter. 5.56 is metric, for commies.

I'll let the tacticool crowd knock themselves out over the ARs. I sincerely hope, in all the recent political ranker, they are able to keep the right to own one. The only reason I'd ever buy one is as an investment. But, lots of other milsurps have proven better investments over the years. The value of my Hakim, for example, has quintupled.

 

[aka108]

Never had or have a shread of interest in the AR platform. Have alway loved the AK and it's variants because I appreciate the simplicity of the design and it's 100% reliabilitly. Everytime I see a group of people shooting AR's some are taking their pieces apart to correct something or another that is disrupting the rifles operation. Son said that during operations in Iraq the infantry they carried would use AK's whenever they could due lt the M16's refusal to operate when dust and sand caused malfuntions too frequently.

 

[jim243]

Well I'm weard, I have had an AR since 1969 so I can't say I have had no interest. They are great target rifles as well as varmint guns.

As to brass flying all over, brass catchers are available that attach over the ejector port and can save you from having to chase your brass. So there is no excuse not to own one.

Have fun and stay safe.
Jim

 

[Bushpilot]

For a long time I wasn't much of an AR fan, preferring sporters, and older, more "classic" military rifles like the M1 Garand, Mausers, ect. Over time I've come to appreciate the good shooting qualities of the rifle and functionality of the design. I've always enjoyed shooting varmint rifles and the standard 223/5.56 chambering further adds to pleasant shooting attributes of the rifle as a whole. I don’t shoot my Garands quite as often as I did prior to buying my first AR and that says a lot.

On a side note, unlike others, I’ve never considered the AR to be the ideal “home defense” rifle, at least not when chambered in 223/5.56, being a little too much for most civilian urban and suburban situations, especially inside the home. Rural areas might be a possible exception but I’d still prefer a handgun if a situation arose inside the home.

 

[tuj]

I too had no interest in AR's. I'm a rimfire and pistol guy. But I wanted to exercise my rights and have something that is 'militia-worthy' in my closet. Plus the experience of building the gun was a great way to learn about it, and they are super-easy to build. Plus I have a 22 upper for cheap practice, and I can go to other calibers with respective uppers.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Probably my biggest objection is having my brass flung all over and requiring me to chase it down.

Every AR I've owned or played with (we're talking dozens here) puts the brass 6-10 feet to your right, in a 3-4" wide pile. They are the softest and most uniformly ejecting autoloader out there.

The only reason I'd ever buy one is as an investment. But, lots of other milsurps have proven better investments over the years. The value of my Hakim, for example, has quintupled.

You only paid ~$130 for it? Because they're still selling in the same $450-$600 range that they were when I first started looking at them several years ago.

 

[MCgunner]

I have an SKS I kinda like just as a knock about rifle. I have killed a couple of deer and hog with it, but not a primary hunting rifle. I have an ambi safety, a 5 round box mag that fits flush with the stock (or at least doesn't stick out in the way), and if I wanna save brass, I can pull the gas piston and it becomes a straight pull bolt gun.

Of course, NO SKS will EVER be called a target rifle. For pure target shooting of military type guns, like the 3 position Camp Perry type stuff (not bench rest), I can see an AR, but would probably prefer an accurized M1A. ARs can be made very accurate, though. Considering the cost of target grade autos, though, I think I'll stick with IDPA or IHMSA with my 7mm TCU Contender if I wanna compete in anything. I'm not rich. I never have competed with rifles other than just local club bench rest for "deer rifles" with the good ol' boys in the gun club.

 

[MCgunner]

You only paid ~$130 for it? Because they're still selling in the same $450-$600 range that they were when I first started looking at them several years ago.

I paid 80 bucks for my Hakim when they were flooding the market back about 1992. I gave 75 bucks for a Norinco SKS rifle and 115 for a paratrooper carbine. Those were good times for milsurps. One could pick up Mosins for 34 bucks. I gave $27.50 for a German 88 commission rifle back in 79.

No, the market was flooded with 'em back then, part of what made them good long term investments. Wish my stocks would have performed as well and I wish I'd bought a LOT more milsurps. I shoulda bought a shipping container full of those Hakims.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I paid 80 bucks for my Hakim when they were flooding the market back about 1992. I gave 75 bucks for a Norinco SKS rifle and 115 for a paratrooper carbine. Those were good times for milsurps. One could pick up Mosins for 34 bucks. I gave $27.50 for a German 88 commission rifle back in 79.

No, the market was flooded with 'em back then, part of what made them good long term investments. Wish my stocks would have performed as well and I wish I'd bought a LOT more milsurps. I shoulda bought a shipping container full of those Hakims.

Well, yeah, but that can be said of most milsurps, especially the US stuff. I hear stories of guys buying M1903 and 03A3 rifles by the pound at near scrap price in the '60s. But unless a guy bought hundreds of them and sat on them for half a century, the return is still pretty small.

 

[MCgunner]

Exactly. That's my whole point about buying them for an investment if I was going to buy one. However, one cannot predict AT THE TIME with certainty which ones will escalate in value and which won't. The Hakim was a good one. I'd thought at the time, all the Rashids coming in would be even more valuable, but that hasn't been the case. They were just a baby Hakim for the 7.62x39. The AR hasn't been that great over the years, but then, there are no shortage of 'em. Part of what makes a mlsurp escalate in value is limited numbers. There weren't limited numbers of the old .303 Enfields back in the 60s. Heck, they're still coming in, made bazillions of 'em.

I really bought the Hakim because it was dirt cheap and I could see that it'd be fun at the range (it is) and it had some cool factor being a HUGE 8x57mm cannon. Sorta like shooting a BAR. I didn't buy any milsurps much over a C note back then. I just wanted 'em 'cause they were cheap and fun to play with. I've kept the ones I liked, sold a couple I didn't.

 

[adelbridge]

I am a big fan of AR rifles but to me making 2"-3" groups is boring. Tacticool AR rifles have their purpose but dumping ammo down range isnt a thrill anymore. It can take some money to make an AR shoot under 1" and you can probably buy other semi auto or bolt guns to make really small holes for much less.

 

[MachIVshooter]

It can take some money to make an AR shoot under 1" and you can probably buy other semi auto or bolt guns to make really small holes for much less.

What other semi-auto do you think is going to be sub-MOA capable in the AR price range? You can slap a $600 Armalite or CMMG bull barrel target upper on a $250 lower assembly and drive tacks with it.

Even my standard 16" AR carbines shoot almost as well as my "average" bolt guns in the $500-$800 range (better than some).

 

[allaroundhunter]

I say to add one to your collection and start shooting competition...

On a side note, unlike others, I’ve never considered the AR to be the ideal “home defense” rifle, at least not when chambered in 223/5.56, being a little too much for most civilian urban and suburban situations, especially inside the home. Rural areas might be a possible exception but I’d still prefer a handgun if a situation arose inside the home.

And here is another example of a misunderstanding of the ballistics of the .223/5.56. With proper defensive ammo, the AR will penetrate less than a shotgun with 00 buckshot, or a JHP pistol round... Even M193 ball ammo typically will not penetrate any more than the aforementioned rounds. When you get to M855 is when you are going to have rounds going through more than you want to.

 

[benEzra]

I've never owned an AR and never had any real interest in owning one. I've never really been into the tacti-cool crowd. My biggest want/need for most of my firearms, except self-defense handguns, is target shooting. I like recreational target shooting at paper targets. I enjoy slow fire target shooting for relaxation and stress-relief.

The AR is by far the dominant centerfire target rifle in the United States, for reasons that have nothing to do with "tacticool" and everything to do with the design's inherent accuracy and good ergonomics. The fact that the bolt locks into the barrel extension, and the DI system allowing the rifle to work without piston-induced barrel harmonics, make it pretty much as accurate as a bolt-action of comparable barrel and optic quality, and attaching good optics to an AR is a cinch.

The main limit for an AR in long-range shooting seems to be the overall length of the cartridges it can chamber. But within the OAL limits imposed by the magazine well, it's a fine target gun.

On a side note, unlike others, I’ve never considered the AR to be the ideal “home defense” rifle, at least not when chambered in 223/5.56, being a little too much for most civilian urban and suburban situations, especially inside the home. Rural areas might be a possible exception but I’d still prefer a handgun if a situation arose inside the home.

That might be the case if shooting FMJ, but with civilian 55-ish grain JHP, .223 Remington is less prone to overpenetration than 00 buckshot and most handgun JHP, both in building materials and otherwise. You can even go as low as 6-8" penetration in gelatin and fragmention in 2 sheets of drywall with the 40gr JHP's, but that's probably not enough to be ideal for defensive use unless you are being attacked by an enraged prairie dog.

 

[HJ857]

I've never owned an AR and never had any real interest in owning one. I've never really been into the tacti-cool crowd. My biggest want/need for most of my firearms, except self-defense handguns, is target shooting. I like recreational target shooting at paper targets. I enjoy slow fire target shooting for relaxation and stress-relief.

I love the ergonomics of the AR, the head and hand positions are perfect, it's such a comfortable rifle to shoot that it's really spoiled my desire to shoot a bolt gun.

When you get to the point of determining which rifle to get, I would suggest ignoring the inevitable "buy mil-spec only" crowd. For your stated use mil-spec is irrelevant. I would also say that a 20" barrel is the better choice because if there's any chance you'll end up taking it to ranges 500 meters and beyond, that extra few inches does help. I shoot an 18" barrel now and wish I would have gone 20.

Lots of folks report great accuracy with the Rock River products, I don't own one but I've shot a White Oak varmint upper that was phenomenal. Also check out National Match uppers, I had one from Model 1 Sales that by internet accounts should have been junk, but shot lights out nonetheless, with a scope that thing could shoot 1/2 MOA easily. A NM flattop upper is nice because it looks like a standard AR, but really isn't and is easy to mount optics on. Can sometimes be found for really great prices too because there's less demand for them. They are heavy though.

As for the lower, put all your money in to the trigger. In the last lower I assembled I used a DPMS parts kit that also according to internet lore should be junk, but has worked perfectly since 2007, but it also has a Jewell trigger in it that I'll replace with another if it ever dies. I would stay away from the Rock River NM trigger because those do die after a pretty short life.

The AR ejects brass at an amazingly consistent position. It's easy just to put up a piece of cardboard or a net to block them. Even a small piece in the right position will stop all the brass.

Lastly, if you don't handload now, give it serious thought - and start collecting range brass now and sort them by headstamp. Every piece of LC brass is like money in the bank. I keep those for precision loads, and all other brass is for general purpose loading and I don't sort those out.

 

[Warp]

Tacti-cool? What's that?

 

[HankR]

MCgunner ...cannot stand the ergos of the EBR...as a lefty... nothing where it should be...

I should have mentioned above, I also shoot lefty. Maybe this has something to do with me not being a huge fan of the platform. I shoot the Garand lefty (anybody can have M1 thumb, when I mess up it's my other 4 fingers in the action, all 4 of 'em -- ouch) and never really noticed any extra hassle w/ the AR over the other platforms, but perhaps that has something to do w/ it.

Prone or over a gun rest in a deer stand, the friggin' worthless bazillion round magazine sticks out in the way.

I have mainly 20 round mags. My AR initially came w/ a 5 round mag. I guess they still make them (yeah, but why? At that point my 30-30 is more tactical)

 

[MachIVshooter]

I should have mentioned above, I also shoot lefty. Maybe this has something to do with me not being a huge fan of the platform.

Ambi safety, southpaw charging handle and a BAD lever make them lefty friendly. Or you could go as far as a Stag lefty model.

I switch hands routinely and shoot lefty with right handed ARs, really don't find it difficult. A little slower on reloads, but otherwise not a problem. My wife is left handed, all we changed on her rifle was the safety (I was too cheap to buy an ambi, so I just made new detent holes and groove on a normal selector and installed it backwards).

 

[newglockguy]

You can buy one in 18 or 20 inch barrel if you intend to target shoot. My friend just finished an 18 in bench gun and it shoots like a dream. They come in a variety of calibers to suit your needs so if you're interested poke around