No Gun for Cop who Beat Woman

Status
Not open for further replies.
I had not seen the video. That does look pretty bad. However what were the injuries?

I used to routinely witness far worse incidents between gang members that would stomp someone even once unconscious on the ground in the face who would only recieve misdemeanor charges if caught. The determining factor was usualy the damage in the end. If the person could walk away eventualy without loss or permanent damage to body parts, and no weapon was involved, it was a misdemeanor. If however someone used a weapon whatsoever (even brandished), even if it did not inflict any injuries, it was a felony charge of assault with a deadly weapon. If serious permanent injuries resulted, they got mayhem/aggravated assault (felony).

So the injuries sustained would tend to be more important than the appearent viciousness on a camera. Unless of course he said he was attempting to cause serious injury.
 
Unless of course he said he was attempting to cause serious injury.

Restraint and full arm punches and boots to the guts and "did he SAY he was attempting to cause serious injury?"?

If he was doing that in my presence, I would have emptied a magazine into the @#$%@#$^%. Then I would have added a brainshot for good measure.

Sorry. Injuries aside, I'd push for attempted murder on that @#$@!#$%. And any cop who stands up for him is about as bad.

Yes, he absolutely should get, and appears to be getting, a fair trial. No, his behavior isn't excusable, wasn't "provoked" and isn't dependent upon outcome. It was a complete loss of control and an attempt to use physical force to inflict injury.

As a matter of fact, if she wasn't hospitalized or worse, he should be fired for gross incompetence for not being able to fight to a respectable level.
 
Lest anyone be misled into thinking there's ANY doubt about what Abbate did, AFTER his cowardly attack, he's been charged, I believe, for both attempting to bribe the victim into not filing charges AND threatening her and the bar owner with retaliation.

For those who think Abbate should remain a police officer, I simply ask, WHY??? What about him makes us all less for his inability to wield lethal force in the name of us all?

Are drunkenness, cowardice, misogyny, corruption and a total absence of human decency now DESIRABLE qualities for officers of the law? Maybe they are in Chicago. They certainly aren't here in Ohio.

If for some insane reason, Abbate were returned to the force, he will be THE face of the Chicago PD. If he gets back his gun and badge, the people of Chicago can truly say, "He acts in our name". Who knows, maybe that's more true than anyone cares to admit.
 
Why didnt anybody help her...I would have beat that sorry SOB nearly dead if I had been there. You just dont stand by and watch something like that happen and do nothing...Chicago is a "Victim Disarmament Zone" I know, and even if it wasnt, he dont need to be shot...he needs a BEATING.
 
Figures....SHEEP...ALL OF THEM
I have the utmost respect for LEO's...IF they deserve it.
But anybody beating an unarmed woman deserves nothing except to be stomped in the floor. I'm from East Tennessee...I guess we do things differently down here, that so called "cop" would have been in much worse condition than she was. And theres NO WAY he would have even a chance of getting his job back...he would have been suspended without pay, right then, and fired shortly thereafter. I'm not a LEO but I am close buddies with the local guys here at home, went to school with most of them...even they have told me he would get no support from them if it happened here...in fact he'd probably get another beating after he got over the first one...from them.
I know Chicago is a "different" place...but its still AMERICA...at least for now.
I just cant get my mind wrapped around the way people think up there, and I have been there (Chicago) many, many, many times over the years as a truck driver. Oh well...I'll shut up now...but he goes on my list of people who get an instant A$$ KICKING if I ever see him, probably wont recognize or remember him but...if I do, he's got one coming.



EDIT: Now... how many of you are going to tell me I'm just a crazy hillbilly...well, I may be ...but I'm more of a man than that "cop" ever will be. I cant just take things lying down...not if they are just plain wrong.
 
I know Chicago is a "different" place...but its still AMERICA...at least for now.
That's where you're wrong.

I'm from Chicago. There's no place like it in the United States... and I DON'T mean that as a complement.

The Daley junta has reduced Chicago to the moral level of some third world kleptocratic dictatorship. Uday and Qusay Hussein would have felt right at home there.

It's sickly funny that Abbate thinks that he's entitled to CARRY a gun, when his victim cannot even OWN one. Were he to wake up at 2:00am tomorrow morning and decide to kill her, she would be completely and utterly helpless. If she were able to call the police, and if they came, there is a non-zero chance that Abbate would successfully wave them off by showing his badge. That's actually happened in the last year.
 
She can own one, just not a handgun. No, I don't think that makes it any better, I'm just keeping it factual.

I have family that once lived in Chicago. I'm glad they aren't anymore.

Mike
 
Sure, you can lawfully own any registered firearm in Chicago...IF you can manage to get it registered. This is an obscure, even an apocryphal, process--read the code--it goes on for like 16 pages. It's such a PITA that the otherwise law abiding don't waste their time. In theory, you can own an air rifle (also recently banned unless registered) but spokeswoman Monique Bond remarked that 'few' BB gun permits would be issued. The lawful ownership of any firearm is always a matter of opinion of who's doing it in Chi town. It is a corrupt sham of 'cause I say so'. Basically, you can own whatever you like until the powers that be decide to take it away from you. And oh well, if you've lived long under the fascist regime there you know the ins and outs. You'll get to keep your gun if you're tied into the power structure, or if at a lesser level---you know they'll just take it away and you'll have to get a new one from outside the city.


I recently read a blurb that a city councilwoman in Tinley Park wanted to adopt a 'tough but fair' gun code like chicago--AMAZING. Tough but F-A-I-R and Chicago don't jibe.


And back to the topic---everyone's seen the video. Let him be judged. If I were him, I'd want my gun back, too---many people have seen that video.
 
There's a longer video on youtube.

He started at the counter, argued with her, she refused service, went about her business, he came AROUND the counter and started helping himself to a beer (illegal, AFAIK), she argued, he shoved her spine-first over the back counter, threw her down, put in the boot, hauled off and punched her.

Some other guy finally got out his cell phone and made a call. One hopes to the police, but I have little reason to be certain of that in the Mistake on the Lake (taken people to court there. The judges are generally as thuggish as the cops).

Some other guy, a little guy at that, finally comes around the counter and tries to help, gets shoved for his trouble. She's able to get up and leave the area, but no telling what injuries there were to head or torso.

It was unprovoked. It was aggravated. It was brutal. It was from a very large attacker to a very small victim. He's an authority figure in public, intoxicated and serving as an example. He followed this with, apparently, attempts at intimidation and bribery.

Jail. Gen pop. No, I don't care how tough his job is, how mommy and daddy didn't love him growing up, or how he had a fight with his old lady last night.

A punk is a punk, and a badge makes no difference.
 
Taking this a step further, had a few people stepped in as suggested here and attacked this officer and he drew his firearm he would be justified due to the disparity of force (many of you, one of him) in defending himself if needed against the felonious assaults on a peace officer likely to result in great bodily injury. This is especialy true if he said something to show he no longer wanted to attack his victim, or he won his case in court (involving the lady). The irony. Attacking an officer is a felony. Multiple people attacking an officer is a felony that easily gives the officer discretion in using deadly force. The argument that you were trying to rescue the lady would also be valid, but you might be dead before you got to court to argue that.

The defense would be that you believed she was at risk of immediate life threatening danger. However it would be for a jury to decide (while be instructed how to think) if blows from his fists justifed the level of force you used. Lethal force would almost definately have landed you a prison sentence. He was not using a weapon and the court would argue that you did not appropriately escalate the level of force required to end hostilities before arriving at the use of deadly force(a requirement in such situations). You are not allowed to just jump to the use of lethal force in such circumstances. However if you did appropriately escalate the level of force as described by law there you would justify lethal force by a police officer against you prior to you meeting the criteria for using lethal force (only at the time of him drawing his weapon would your argument even be valid, of course responding officers, especialy in Chicago would probably kill you before learning what happened in retribution.) Furthermore since you could not have a firearm such action would have to be taken with some other item available to you against him after he drew his weapon.

As you can see the law is heavily stacked against you. The security tape vanishing, to have been found "not recording" or something similar would also be more likely if such had happened as the responding officers would likely kill the armed man that killed an officer, inventing evidence to back such action as needed. This situation ended differently because it did not escalate and fellow officers within the department were also likely to have felt disgusted enough by the tape and conduct to not stick up for one of the boys to the same extent as usual. Had lethal force been involved and multiple (responding) officers involved I imagine this would be different. Chicago is known for having thug like cops that deal with criminals in underhanded (yet effective) ways.

You punching an officer is a felony, while the officer punching you is a misdemeanor.

Such are the issues when some are mere mortals and others are entitled extraordinary rights and protections.
 
I DONT CARE IF ITS A FELONY...
DOING WHATS RIGHT...IS DOING WHATS RIGHT.
People being afraid to do whats "RIGHT"...is the biggest reason this whole country (especially bigger cities) is rolling downhill like a snowball headed for hell.
Yes...I realize most people dont see it this way...but...there are a few REAL MEN (and women) left in this country. Very few.
I may be in jail afterwards...but I'll be there with my self respect and dignity intact, knowing I did what I could to save an innocent victim.
Whats that quote..."All it takes for evil to win, is for good men to do nothing"...or something like that. I'm sorry...but that so called "cop" needs a beating. He's acting like a drunk in a bar, and I've dealt with a few (4 years as a bouncer, just after high school)...and thats the only way to stop a bully, give him a dose of his own medicine.

EDIT: I stated that he didnt need to be shot, just beaten to a pulp..not killed. Nobody shoud be killed for being stupid, arrogant, or thinking they are better than the next person...if any of those were grounds to use deadly force on somebody...well...we wouldnt have this problem with overpopulation.
 
While I agree 100% that the officer in question should be denied his firearm, his job, and a few years of his liberty, I wonder how many of my fellow THRers that are quick to agree with denying him his RKBA, are the same folks who scream about the Lautenberg Amendment depriving wife-beaters of the same rights.:what::eek::neener::neener::neener:

Remember, like the man (or woman, for that matter) under a restraining order, this officer hasn't been convicted of anything, yet. :evil::evil::evil:
 
While I agree 100% that the officer in question should be denied his firearm, his job, and a few years of his liberty, I wonder how many of my fellow THRers that are quick to agree with denying him his RKBA, are the same folks who scream about the Lautenberg Amendment depriving wife-beaters of the same rights.
Funny you should mention that.

Back in '96 before Lautenberg passed, Illinois was debating similar legislation. It was set to fly through the state legislature... until the Chicago FOP lodge discovered that it did NOT exempt cops. Thereafter transpired the second most curious National Public Radio interview I've EVER heard, exceeded in disturbing creepiness by their interview of the "roving ambassador" of the Taliban, just prior to 9/11.

SEVERAL police union spokesmen went on record loudly condemning any legislation which disarmed convicted wifebeaters, but which did NOT exempt cops. The most interesting quote from an FOP spokesman: "If you take the gun away from an angry and violent cop, it'll just make him MORE angry and violent!" The second most interesting quote: "You can't take the gun away from a cop convicted of domestic violence; that's his 'tool of the trade' (Sammy 'the Bull' Gravano's too...)!" The third most interesting quote: "You can trust a cop with a gun after he's convicted of domestic violence because he'll be closely supervised (as closely supervised as Abbate when he was threatening on the job retaliation?)!"

It sounded like a particularly disturbing "Kids in the Hall" sketch, but it's actually the OFFICIAL policy of the Fraternal Order of Police in Chicago...
 
Here is a perfect example of what a "speedy trial" was made for. Put twelve nit wits in a box, run the tape, bang the gavel and load his tail up and take him to the big house! No way dude takes the stand, and I cannot imagine ANY way they can spin this to keep him out of jail other than possibly a long stay at a mental facility. (can you say shock treatment!)
 
Ridgerunner665, I understand your sentiments, but you're not fully understanding the situation here. You may have been to Chicago, but you apparently don't fully grasp the mindset of most Chicago cops, or the overall "rules of engagement" in the city itself. It's a much different and tougher place than you imagine it to be.

Consider what you see on the video: a late-night drinking session at a neighborhood bar. A seriously large, very drunk, well-armed, and extremely agitated and aggressive individual has just passed the threshold that many people would characterize as having "snapped". He's beating, kicking, stomping, and throwing a woman that weighs less than half his weight (she's 110 lbs) like she's a rag doll, full of rage and making threats the whole time. Mind you, this guy is pushing 300 lbs, very likely has remnants of a vestigial tail, and he's waaay off the reservation at this point. Now, I know in your mind you'd like to extend a chivalrous offer to punch this ruffian in the nose to defend her violated sensibilities, but the cold reality of it is that this guy would, as soon as you raised your fist, shoot you a few times and then beat your carcass like a Sunday-morning boner. That's the Chicago way.

In fact, I'm surprised that the bystanders didn't get out of the bar and make phone calls to 911. The fact that at least one of them stood there trying to figure out what to do is pretty amazing, surpassed only by the fact that he survived. Those are usually the ones that get shot as a collateral target.

A lot of the cops in Chicago, I'd venture to guess most of them, have this "we can do anything we want" attitude, and even the good cops will absolutely back up any other cop no matter what they do. It's a strange phenomenon, but it's well-documented and inarguable. When dealing with people like that, one must pick one's battles carefully. Sometimes the best you can do is get out of a given situation with life and limb intact, no matter what the "right" thing to do might be. You can't fight the system here, its roots are too firmly entrenched.

It has gotten so bad here that Daley has taken the police oversight away from the Office of Professional Standards within the PD, and is appointing an "outside panel" (which will consist of hand-picked cronies, of course) of citizens to investigate police wrongdoing. OPS's track record includes almost no findings of police wrongdoing in past events, and even when it does, no disciplinary action is taken and there is no public statement regarding the outcomes of the cases. It literally goes into a black hole, and is never heard from again. It's a truly scary system. I don't expect it to change as long as Daley and his city full of little friends are still running things.
 
Maybe not...the guy he shoved in that video...if I got that close...he would be down, HARD...FAST...and HURTIN.
You call it tough up there...I'm not going to get into that....its pretty tough where I grew up too....but different.
The reason I say he would be down is his demeanor when he pushed the guy...he didnt think he was a serious threat.
I would have been.
I see your point...most people probably shouldnt try it...you're right...but that dont make it right to do nothing either.
 
Specialized: A lot of the cops in Chicago, I'd venture to guess most of them, have this "we can do anything we want" attitude, and even the good cops will absolutely back up any other cop no matter what they do.

I would have to disagree about them being ‘good cops’. They aren’t any better than he dirty cops if they cover up for them. “If you aren’t part of the solution then you are part of the problem.”

I can understand their feelings. I wouldn’t want to be the next ‘Frank Serpico’ either. But, that still does not qualify them as ‘good cops’.
 
As a hypothetical, based on the video, what provocation could the bartender possibly have offered to Abbate that his conduct was warranted?
madmike said:
It was unprovoked. It was aggravated. It was brutal. It was from a very large attacker to a very small victim. He's an authority figure in public, intoxicated and serving as an example. He followed this with, apparently, attempts at intimidation and bribery.
That's what I think.
 
OPS's track record includes almost no findings of police wrongdoing in past events, and even when it does, no disciplinary action is taken and there is no public statement regarding the outcomes of the cases.
And even on those VERY rare occasions when they make a blind stab at doing the right thing, they can be overruled by the Superintendant of Police.

Officer Alvin Weems blew an unarmed, unresisting guy named Pleasance's brains all over the floor and walls of the 95th St. El station a few years ago. He made up an Art Bell style story about being "surrounded" and having people try to grab his gun. Even though his place of duty was the El station, he apparently never took note of the VIDEO SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS all over the station. They however took note of him.

OPS considered Weems's story, witness statements and the tapes and recommended that he be fired for: shooting an unarmed man, being late for work, being out of uniform, lying to investigators (proved 100% by the surveillance tapes). At this point the Superintendant of Police, Phil Cline, steps in. It seems that he was Weems's old boss back in the day. He overrules the review board and instead keeps Weems on the job with [for at BEST a negligent homicide] a THIRTY DAY SUSPENSION. Cline cites Weems's tardiness and having his finger on the trigger of his gun. Cline and other police officials repeat Weems's lies about the circumstances of the shooting.

I must digress here for a VERY important aside. I seem to recall that the gun with which Weems [murdered] Pleasance was a Ruger SP-101 double action revolver. Unless Weems cocked the hammer of the revolver prior to putting it to Pleasance's head (negligence in itself), I find it simply IMPOSSIBLE to believe that he ACCIDENTALLY pulled the trigger of a stock Ruger double action revolver, with the hammer down hard enough to fire it. The tape shows NO struggle, nor any aggressive action on Pleasance's part. Weems simply places the gun to Pleasance's head and pulls the trigger. Pleasance drops to the floor of the El station like a sack of bricks, his friend gaping at his dead body in astonishment. Weems continues to talk to the friend as is he'd merely brushed a piece of lint from his own sleeve.

Officer Weems has since been PROMOTED to DETECTIVE Weems. Not surprisingly, Pleasance's family is sueing the city and Weems. Oddly, the Chicago PD fought VERY hard to prevent the video from being released to the public. I guess they don't like getting caught in a series of LIES about a MURDER committed by one of their officers, and aided, abetted and REWARDED after the fact by the Superintendant of Police. There is an almost frame by frame analysis of the surveillance video put together by "The Reader" a Chicago free weekly newspaper. It's VERY interesting, especially in contrast to the "account" put out by Weems, Cline and the rest of the Chicago PD. Here's a link to it: http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/killedoncamera/. You should watch it and keep it in mind before weighing the veracity of any statements made by the Chicago PD or its personnel about the shooting... or any other subject for that matter.

In connection with the lawsuit against the city and himself, Officer Weems has admitted UNDER OATH that the shooting was NOT justified. Since the shooting Officer Weems has been promoted by Superintendant Cline to DETECTIVE Weems.

I sure wish that committing [at best] a negligent homicide on MY job would get me a thirty day suspension and a PROMOTION.

Yeah, the guys in the bar who sat around and watched Karolina Obrycka get her head stomped by Anthony Abbate are filthy, gutless cowards. At the same time, they're alive.

Mr. Pleasance ISN'T.

Some of them may have drawn what they considered appropriate conclusions about how to deal with misbehavior by Chicago cops from that fact...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top