Non polymer affordable PCC

[CoalTrain49]

I know this has been discussed a bunch here but I didn't really see any topics that addressed this specifically so I thought I would start a new one.

I recently purchased a USGI M1 carbine. Lots of worn parts and the bore is on life support. I knew what I was buying so no regrets. That's my first carbine and I like a lot things about it including the cartridge. Unfortunately 30 carbine is not mainstream or popular anymore.

I'm seeing a few PCC's coming into the market (polymer) and I think these are probably going to flash in popularity like the AR did. They are going to fill a void for several reasons. One, they function well as a home defense weapon and two, the ammo costs are considerably less than a true bottle neck rifle cartridge. That means that more people will have more fun because they will shoot it more often.

So the question here is why isn't anyone making a traditional carbine like an M1 using a common inexpensive mag like a 1911 (45 ACP) or Glock. You might think that a traditional style won't sell but all you have to do is look at 1911 sales. That one has been around for over 100 years and people can't get enough of it.

I have a dozen 1911 mags and I'm sure many Glock shooters have plenty of mags hanging around.

The 9 mm is the most popular cartridge on the planet. If someone would build one of these in 9 mm, 40 and 45 those things would sell like crazy. Some of us don't want polymer.

Any ideas?

 

[Art Eatman]

Regardless of cartridge, any replication of an M1 carbine will be more expensive than the competition. Just guessing, likely double the cost, if not more. So, as usual, marketplace.

The .30 Carbine is easy to reload for. Several useful bullets available.

 

[zdc1775]

Pretty sure these just came out but here you go Citadel M-1 9mm. Uses Beretta 92 magazines instead of Glock mags though.

 

[Domino]

Well, by not polymer are you talking about polymer receivers or polymer furniture? I'm guessing you just want wood furniture correct? There are plenty of semi-auto versions of old smg's such as the thompson, uzi, sten, and suoi and they are old all durable. None of them are really cheap though. Then you have the old Marlin Camp carbines but they are expensive and somewhat hard to find. The new Citidel is the only recent one...

https://www.legacysports.com/m-1-9mm-carbine

 

[eldon519]

You can get a sporterized Uzi or AR15 in 9mm. There is also the Just Right Carbine. I don't know if you consider any of those affordable or not. I have a Colt 9mm that I keep in identical configuration to my Colt 6720 for cheaper practice and the ability to shoot cheap steel spinners and whatnot. It is a fun gun, but I'd grab the 6720 for anything serious.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Well, by not polymer are you talking about polymer receivers or polymer furniture? I'm guessing you just want wood furniture correct? There are plenty of semi-auto versions of old smg's such as the thompson, uzi, sten, and suoi and they are old all durable. None of them are really cheap though. Then you have the old Marlin Camp carbines but they are expensive and somewhat hard to find. The new Citidel is the only recent one...

https://www.legacysports.com/m-1-9mm-carbine

That looks to be what I was talking about. I wonder why they choose a Beretta mag instead of a Glock? Lots more of those around than a 92. I don't reload 9mm but if they ever make one in 45 acp I'll have one. Thank to both of you for the link.

 

[amd6547]

Hipoint would own the category if they only adapted their carbine to glock mags.

 

[tiamat]

As was mentioned, there were the Marlin Camp Carbines, in both 9mm and 45acp. The 9mm version can take S&W 5900/6900 series mags. I'm not sure what type of mags the 45acp version took, but I assume 1911-style - both being common and (relatively) inexpensive. Note that these carbines are no longer being made - that should tell you something. I suppose Citadel's PCC may have more of a fighting chance at longevity/popularity simply due to it's M1 styling, not that the camp carbines were ugly.

 

[eldon519]

This might be a stupid question, but is there the possibility to run into gas/debris to the face using an open-receiver blowback like a converted M1 Carbine? Seems like most blowback rifles are relatively enclosed and hold in the mess. I know my 9mm AR gets filthy inside and has soot streaking the cases. You also get a good wiff coming through the charging handle opening and it even includes the half-clam shell on the ejection port to shield lefties.

 

[zdc1775]

Well here is another one. Aero Survival Rifle It comes in 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP and used Glock mags.

 

[tiamat]

I think you missed the 'non polymer' part of the OP.

 

[stressed]

I would recommend the new citadel. I have a sterling SMG carbine, no polymer, but no wood either and some may not like the side feeding magazine and folding stock. They are pricey now as well out of production. Soumi would be a heavily built carbine as well.

 

[gidaeon]

Hipoint would own the category if they only adapted their carbine to glock mags.

This would be a wonderful development for so many. I can't speak to longevity of mine, but they certainly stand by their product and I'd be tempted to have another.

Not sure if the "Ruger Police Carbine" was polymer, or if its considered affordable?

 

[B!ngo]

Depending on price range, there are MP5 clones. Just about all metal - except the stock which can be replaced by a sliding or folding one. MKE built a round of exact MP94 clones off of the same manufacturing machinery and in the same shop where H&K builds 'real' MP5's in Turkey. I was lucky enough to get one. Nice but now their reselling prices are escalating.
I guess the Kriss is both pricey and has too much plastic?
Everyone has their reasons that should be respected but you could really widen your scope of well built and lower priced PCC's if you could relax the polymer restriction.
B

 

[barnbwt]

STENs aren't polymer, nor Suomis.

TCB

 

[zdc1775]

I think you missed the 'non polymer' part of the OP.

Guess I assumed that most people knew that you can buy wood furniture for AR-15's. And the OP wanted Glock mags and .45 ACP

AR-15 Wood Stock

 

[BCRider]

[QUOTE-Eldon519]This might be a stupid question, but is there the possibility to run into gas/debris to the face using an open-receiver blowback like a converted M1 Carbine? Seems like most blowback rifles are relatively enclosed and hold in the mess. I know my 9mm AR gets filthy inside and has soot streaking the cases. You also get a good wiff coming through the charging handle opening and it even includes the half-clam shell on the ejection port to shield lefties[/QUOTE]

From the JR and Keltec carbines that I've shot this would be a concern. On both of those I felt some gas puffing and fouling specs coming out of the ejection ports and other openings. So a direct blowback M1 PCC that has a relatively open top access would very likely have a pretty good spray of gas and fouling specs hitting the shooter. And very likely this would be in the face. I may be wrong but if this turned out to be the case then it would make the gun pretty much useless for any use other than range time where the shooter is wearing protective eye wear.

The Keltec wasn't a big deal as I shoot right handed so the puffs only touched my arm. But if shooting left handed I'd expect the shooter to get a face full with every trigger pull.

The JR Carbine was the other one I've gotten to try out. It's adaptable for left or right but the cover used still allowed some gasses to puff into my face.


I like traditional as well so the M1 clone strikes me as pretty nice. Well, other the fact that it's made by Chiappa which fills me with dread.

But I think trying to adapt a direct blowback action to the M1 Carbine looking receiver is doomed due to the puffing that will go with the blowback operation. The more closed in carbine style receivers such as the Keltec, Beretta and Thureon Defense carbines handle this far better. If one of those styles of receiver or even if someone built a scaled up and optimized box receiver along the lines of the Ruger 10-22 then we'd have a great start to a wood stocked semi auto PCC along the same lines as the Ruger 10-22. And that would be a wondrous thing to behold and to shoot.

 

[wally]

I like traditional as well so the M1 clone strikes me as pretty nice. Well, other the fact that it's made by Chiappa which fills me with dread.

Me too! Use the search for my bad experience with their 1911-22 and lack of customer support.

Might I suggest an AR pistol in 9mm and the SIG SB-15 -- easy to build to suit your tastes:

Or:

Doing it yourself is in the price ballpark of the Beretta & Taurus 9mm carbine offerings.
The AR 9mm Colt/Uzi style mags are easily found for <$20 each from ASC, AR Stoner, C-Products, etc.

If the new TWN Aero Survial Pistol will take the SB-15 on its buffer tube you could then get your Glock mag option.

 

[BCRider]

One of my thoughts was an AR style built up as a PCC. But the OP wants a classic wood and regular rifle style look.

But I'm not sure we can get there from here with the current crop of PCC designs. It needs to be direct blowback to hold the cost down but all the options out there seem to be dark and "AR'ish" to where the action with combined or separate lower trigger group could not be housed easily in a regular rifle like classic looking stock. Like the idea of a 9mm, .49S&W and .45ACP shooting 10-22 style of rifle.

Ruger had the Camp Carbine. I couldn't recall if it was semi auto or bolt so I searched and came up with their old Police Carbine 9 or PC9. Seems like just what Coaltrain is hoping to find other than being in a plastic stock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nh4YGW_zU4

And the related videos on You Tube showed me Marlin had a Camp 9 carbine that takes handgun mags as well. This video has some great shots of the gun being shot but I need to warn you. WARNING-FUNKY MUSIC CONTENT AHEAD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzF4aIKrO4w

Being new to shooting I would not be surprised if other such "normal rifle" like options are out there as well. I know it's a pretty dry sales market for regular looking carbines. Maybe we just all need to stand up and say "NO!" to the black tacticool movement!

 

[chris in va]

I plan to get a CX4 and am not worried in the least it's made of polymer.