Observations of the bolt rifle scene.

[dvdcrr]

When thoughts meander toward standard bolt actions M77 Rugers , M70 Winchesters, Remington 700's, and Savage 10,11/111 comes to mind. Yet just today I was in a large regional sporting goods store there were almost none of these in the racks! There were no Ruger hawkeyes in standard walnut or synthetic, just a couple scout versions. There were no m70's. The only 700's were a couple SPS all black matte jobs. There were no NICE Savage 10,110 hunting rifles but there were some trophy package units with aweful fit and a nice long range with muzzle brake.
What was there instead? Many Ruger Americans. Plenty of Savage axis II's. Howas. Japanese Xbolts. High end AR's.
Its a little unnerving to me, but the days of the nicer affordable American bolt gun might be waning.

There are many very nice American rifles, Coopers, Barret mrad, Black Rain etc, but this is a higher class.

 

[stiab]

I share your concern.

 

[sage5907]

Now you get the picture about why many of us buy used rifles. Most of the people touting these cost cutting manufactured rifles don't realize how much quality is in the older rifles and how well they shoot.

 

[Txhillbilly]

With the amount of new shooters in the past few years,it seems that they are mostly on the "Cheap" society,and only want to buy entry level models of firearms.The retailers are just stocking items that get off the shelves the fastest.
Most quality privately owned gun shops carry the better grades of firearms,and tend to have educated,and experienced shooters walk through their doors.

It's hard to tell a novice shooter the differences between an entry level firearm,and one that has decades of service in the industry.All they see is the big difference in the price tags,and two rifles that look the same in their eyes.

 

[Jim Watson]

I see a lot orf reports of excellent accuracy from the cheap models.

 

[rcmodel]

+1

Most of them shoot as well or better then the old classics.

And the new guys don't want fine checkered walnut and blued steel anymore.

Once us old guys get old and die off, there won't be a whole lot of demand for fine rifles anymore.

Unless one stars somehow in a hit netflex movie or a new video game.

(Like Jack O'Conner vs Elmer Keith, Fast & Furious VIII)

rc

 

[PapaG]

I'm gonna shoot my 1952 M70 30-06 until I can't focus through the Weaver K4. Period.

 

[treed]

Having just bought a Browning X bolt I disagree with them being lumped in with the rest of those examples. I do think that a lot of people want a cheap rifle for their 2-3 days they hunt a year.

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^ They always did. We just don't remember the Winchester 670 too well. Sears and Kmart used to be the sellers of choice for the paycheck-challenged shooter. There were cheap rifles then and there are cheap rifles now. The difference is that then both the cheap and good stuff was wood and steel, and now both the cheap and good stuff is loaded with plastic. Different age, I guess.


Willie

.

 

[dvdcrr]

The Xbolt looked fabulous. I did not mean to imply that it was cheap. But a point of distinction is that it is not made in the USA. Where is the BAR made?

 

[another pake]

I bought my first rifle at Sears, in a Chicago suburb in 1967. It was a model 94 Winchester. I was 18.

Different world then.

 

[barnbwt]

"Its a little unnerving to me, but the days of the nicer affordable American bolt gun might be waning."
There's this little thing called inflation, even if our government pretends it no longer exists.

TCB

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

The Remington 788 had the same complaints back in the day, but it is still upheld as a very accurate but not quite as an affordable rifle as it was when introduced.......

 

[EchoM70]

The Xbolt looked fabulous. I did not mean to imply that it was cheap. But a point of distinction is that it is not made in the USA. Where is the BAR made?

The model 70 is assembled in Portugul now.

 

[taliv]

Just an opinion but the vast majority of gun people seem to prefer three closets full of $<300 guns to one high quality one. And they could sell ten of those mosins and enfields and buy a schmid n bender to put on top of it.

I'm not saying it's wrong. They're free to do as they like. But you can hardly blame the mfgs from responding to this buying pattern by making a lot of cheap crap


Btw my own observation about the bolt gun scene is its never been a better time for custom work. A lot of new custom actions were announced at shot. Really cool stuff

 

[RugerOldArmy]

They do make some utilitarian rifles nowadays.

I prefer old school quality in an artful creation of blued steel and checkered walnut. Older rifles had the benefit of greater labor investment, by skilled machinists and woodworkers that took pride in their work.

Now plastic, and cost cutting manufacturing, result in more utilitarian products.

I'll give credit to the newer crop that, some, of reasonably priced guns shoot decently. The heavy barreled model 12 and 10 Savages come to mind. Many are half-MOA out of the box.

For a little more you can get a Cooper, or a used benchrest custom. How much more expensive is that than a pre-64 Win Mdl. 70 was, back then, in today's dollars?

 

[GAMEOVER44]

Its hard to beat a bolt action rifle in a lot of ways. Dependability being one. I for one, will NEVER give up my CUSTOM Ruger Gunsite Scout.

 

[chicharrones]

^^ They always did. We just don't remember the Winchester 670 too well. Sears and Kmart used to be the sellers of choice for the paycheck-challenged shooter. There were cheap rifles then and there are cheap rifles now. The difference is that then both the cheap and good stuff was wood and steel, and now both the cheap and good stuff is loaded with plastic. Different age, I guess.


Willie

.

Good point, Willie.

There were wood and steel inexpensive guns of many types back then or even into only a couple decades ago. My old Winchester 37A shotgun was a fine example of a wood and steel gun made for people on a small budget. Which is precisely why I bought it back in the day.

 

[swampcrawler]

As part of the younger generation, iv nearly given up on new production nice American hunting rifles. Sako and if I can ever afford one, a j.p saure is the stuff I like

 

[Bezoar]

whats the life expectancy of a typical rifle barrel in say 243 win or 308 or 25-06?

not much really. and consider the useage of a typical varmint rifle. lots of rounds. so its not that hard to say

hmm, this savage axis gets 1 moa out of the box for the cost of a new barrel for that 50 year old "super good rifle" they on the forum say i should get

 

[Robert]

When the majority of your market is saying that they will only pay so much for a rifle and they only want certain features what is a manufacturer to do? Keep making rifles that only a few people are willing to pay for? They would have some beautiful rifles to sell at the bankruptcy auction...

I have a newer (SC made) Mod70. I would not consider it a cheap rifle. It is certainly not in the same class as Cooper or Kimber but neither is it in the same class as the Ruger American, Savage or other price point rifles. No, the checkering is not hand cut and the stock is not some high gloss hand rubbed oil nor is the bluing high gloss. But honestly, I never much cared for high gloss anything. I much prefer the matte finish. And if I really want to I can oil and finish the stock. I don't.

Fine rifles are still made, the problem is few are willing to pay the price. Once manufactures figured out they could charge artisan prices for a normal rifle the game was over. That coupled with changing taste and rising costs for everything drove the shift the to budget, "cheap", rifles we see today.

 

[ScratchnDent]

I absolutely love finely crafted rifles in high polished blue and fancy walnut, but when I'm going slogging through the swamps. looking for hogs or deer, I grab the plastic and stainless rifle that shoots just as well, and cost 1/3 as much.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"Good point, Willie. There were wood and steel inexpensive guns of many types back then or even into only a couple decades ago. My old Winchester 37A shotgun was a fine example of a wood and steel gun made for people on a small budget. Which is precisely why I bought it back in the day"


And is why my go-to hunting rifle is still a Winchester Model 670 in .30-06 that I bought at the Kmart in Houma, Louisiana in 1980 for $129.95. It's glass has been upgraded from the $24.99 Bushnell that it used to wear, and it's a 1.5 inch or better shooter and always has been.

The old paradigm of "put it in a blind magazine stock, give it a bead blasted finish, use less expensive wood, and use pressed rather than cut checkering" is all that that used to distinguish the "fine rifle" from the "Kmart special". They all shot the same, all the rest was a matter of pride in the better finish.

Nowadays it's just been taken to the next level of improvement, and repeatability. Who would really want to deal with producing wood stocks of any quality level when synthetics are absolutely repeatable in quality and dimension and cheaper to make? So who can blame the makers? When wood was common and fiberglass was rare, we used to oooh and ahhh everytime we saw a (rarely seen) synthetic stock, because it loudly said "custom expensive rifle". The makers then took that consumer sentiment and ran with it. Nowadays the mirror has been flipped and it's the wooden stock that we oooh and ahhh over.

Funny, isn't it?



Willie

.

 

[dogmush]

A Model 70 Deluxe (there's your fancy walnut and high polished blue) cost $274.95 in 1965. According to the fed.gov inflation calculator (which is probably a little low) that's $2066.37 in 2014. I could by a LOT of bolt action rifle for 2 grand.

A base model 70, in 1965 cost $149.95. That's 1126.94 in 2014 dollars. Still not what you'd call an affordable hunting rifle.

By 1971 Winchester had the Model 670s for 124.95. Or $730.37 2014 dollars. So that's in the same price range. When was the last time someone saw a 670s these days?

Put another way, for what the base model 70 cost "back in the day" I can buy a brand spanking new Weatherby Mark V Sporter at Buds.

I don't thing there were ever "Nicer, Affordable American Bolt Rifle" the way the OP used the phrase. There were cheap, utilitarian rifles, and there were differeing level of pricey better rifles. The difference is many of the cheap ones didn't make it to today, so when you look at "old" rifles you get a very skewed sense of what was actually there.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

I have some "cheap" rifles and I have some "middle road" rifles. I have one custom rifle that is about as elegant and perfect as you can get...

The custom rifle is hands down the best shooting rifle I own and it should be for the $ I paid, but really the "cheap" rifles shoot MOA or slightly better and cost WAY less. For hunting at 200yds or less on deer sized game the "cheap" rifle does the same job as my expensive custom. It kills deer dead and I don't care about dings scratches and bad weather like I do when I carry my custom gun.